Why can't i play Nazi's?

[Mojave]

So haven't we hit a glass ceiling in 'freedom' over here? Some posts hinted at it having to sell. Sell where? I know a great audience in South East Asia and the middle east that will shell out some cash to kill electronic americans. True, this moves away from the more human approach to soldiers, but it proves that gaming audiences is not the us, canada, western europe and japan. The rest of the world can game too, and they do not per se join us in our ethical 'freedom'. Furthermore, in this case you could REALLY strike a balance between good and evil, not some blatant banality between saint or devil, but a grey area in which you trust your conscience or march into hell like a good little hitlerjugend.


Btw: Thanks Torque!

Btw2: A game about the Apartheid, THAT would be evil.

 

[Deathsong17]

I think it's just one of those places where companies just don't want to go.

Maybe once we see the passing of the last WW2 survivors, but until then? Nah. Same reason we don't have any games about escaping from concentration camps and so forth.

The Great Escape?

 

[AngloDoom]

While some developers like a lot of controversy about their games, having one of their games being labelled as a "Genocide-Simulator" and "Nazi-Sympathiser" may well be something to avoid.

If Mass Effect got put on the News for four seconds of blue ass, then that kind of game would probably be responsible for the resurrection of Saddam Hussein in the media's view.

 

[Fraeir]

What bothers me about this thread is that the words "German" and "Nazi" seems to be used synonymously <.<

There are several games where you can play as the Germans, mostly in multiplayer, granted, but still. The Nazis was the bastards who ruled Germany during WWII yes, but as far as I've learned, most Germans didn't know what the hell was going on behind the curtains. (The Holocaust and all that, hell, the Nazi Party's official reason for the start of the war was that Polish troops had attacked a German border post)

Nazis are bad guys, yes. Most of the German people and military were unfortunate to be German at the time, as they've apparantly (if this thread is to be taken into account) been stapled as bad people.

Let's rather look at some of the good Germans higher-ups from WWII, like Erwin Rommel, who actively opposed all orders he got that involved genocide, treated P.O.W's with respect and compassion, and was basically honoured not only by his own troops and Germany, but the Allies as well, even having been called a modern "Chivalrous Knight" by Churchill.

That, and he was brutally effective; His campaigns during the war could make a nice game, I think. : p

 

[Sebass]

If Mass Effect got put on the News for four seconds of blue ass, then that kind of game would probably be responsible for the resurrection of Saddam Hussein in the media's view.

Well, afaik sex is more of an issue in the US then violence is .. (I always found that very strange .. )

OT: There are a few games that DO let you play as the nazi's but those are always multiplayer games of multiplayer modes of regulae games (MOH MP, COD MP, BF MP, .. )

Anyway, apart from creating outrage, which I think won't be that much, there's also a problem storywise: playing a game where you know you WILL lose the war would feel a little pointless. Sure there are a several major battles that you'll win, but after a certain point in the war you'll lose. Imagine a game where your mission is accomplished by getting yourself shot ..

 

[Knight Templar]

Fighting in favor of genocide and being the aggressor doesn't strike me as fun. Most people don't like to play as the bad guy, more so when you are playing a real bad guy.

Not all German soldiers were Natiz's, but enough were.

 

[Hexenwolf]

Because we have enough shitty WWII shooters.

That aside, "history is written by the victor."

Therefore, the losing side was composed entire of baby-stomping child molesters.

The winning side was composed only of heroes who were bulletproof or martyrs.

And if they're the main character in a videogame, they get to be both bulletproof and a martyr!

So haven't we hit a glass ceiling in 'freedom' over here? Some posts hinted at it having to sell. Sell where? I know a great audience in South East Asia and the middle east that will shell out some cash to kill electronic americans. True, this moves away from the more human approach to soldiers, but it proves that gaming audiences is not the us, canada, western europe and japan. The rest of the world can game too, and they do not per se join us in our ethical 'freedom'. Furthermore, in this case you could REALLY strike a balance between good and evil, not some blatant banality between saint or devil, but a grey area in which you trust your conscience or march into hell like a good little hitlerjugend.

It still won't sell. You are right about the audience, but you have to realize that those countries have a relatively small install base, console-wise. It takes approximately a million sales to break even on average for a videogame these days, due to high production costs, and you're not going to reach that number without the North American and European market. It's a good idea, and there are a great many people who would appreciate it in all available markets, but they are vastly outnumbered by the people who would despise the very idea without even thinking about it.

 

[Remleiz]

We have all seen the many many MANY WWII games in which we play as either the allies or the sovjets. But why are there so few games in which i can play as the Nazi's?

The ethical/political discussion aside, war is hell, for both sides. The Allies weren't fighting demons, the Axis suffered a great deal as well. And i think it's about time we gave Hans in the trench a little bit more of a human face.

how about instead of making a game purely focused on the nazis, why not have a war game that has story modes for the Nazis, The British, The Soviets and the Americans?

 

[Dr Ampersand]

Because NO, dude.

Yes, they were humans. Yes, other humans have committed atrocities before and since, but the Nazis pretty much set the standard for the modern day concept of "The Banality of Evil". I mean, you can't really divorce "Nazi" from "Death Camp", from "Final Solution", from essentially the very atrocities that make even the use of a swastika (a relatively innocent symbol in some religions) verboten. You want to play a Nazi, you're going to have to defend your desire to play as a character who is not only supporting but defending an institution that created an entire bureaucracy dedicated to killing Jews, Roma, homosexuals, Jehovah's Witnesses, and pretty much anyone who seemed even the least bit out of place.

Agreed though a game where you play as a Wermacht soldier might work. A lot of soldiers didn't know about the whole death camps and whatnot so if you had the main character and their squad mainly anti-Nazi but with a few Nazis thrown in to mix it up a bit then you could probably get it to sell.

 

[Manji187]

It's this nasty association with evil... as if you are condoning what the Nazi's did by buying and playing such a game. Yes..not all Germans were Nazi's and not all Nazi's did terrible things but the human mind likes to generalize. In the end, human beings think a lot less than they think they do.

 

[Mojave]

True, but games are an ART medium, right? It is used to reach people and pass on an experience.
More capital-based that other mediums, but we can scale down the production values accordingly. I'm not talking about a triple A title here. No Gears of Waffen or Heilo or something. I'm talking about the moral dilemma's, the conflict between duty and being human, the price that every guy paid to his hart and mind when he donned that uniform. Some say they might have been evil, but they weren't stupid, we're talking highly educated and skilled people here. Nobody ever wondered why they did what they did?

 

[A Pious Cultist]

A game about a German soldier could easily be made workable. Not so much about a Nazi, heck I think it would have to take great strides to differenciate the two.

Something like:
*German guy is a good little soldier
*Witnesses atrocities committed
*Critical life-or-death decision, he choses to disobey command
*Nazi command is now his enemy
*He joins some resistance group

 

[Asehujiko]

I think the last time Hitler was included in a game was Command and Conquer Red Alert.

Correction: The last time Hitler was in a game was Hearts of Iron 3, which came out a few days ago.

 

[rossatdi]

We have all seen the many many MANY WWII games in which we play as either the allies or the sovjets. But why are there so few games in which i can play as the Nazi's?

The ethical/political discussion aside, war is hell, for both sides. The Allies weren't fighting demons, the Axis suffered a great deal as well. And i think it's about time we gave Hans in the trench a little bit more of a human face.

"World War II casualty statistics vary greatly. Estimates of total dead range from 50 million to over 70 million."

+

"The start of the war is generally held to be September 1, 1939, with the German invasion of Poland"

-> I think I'll stick to playing on the other side. Whether or not the individual soldiers held the views of their regime you would be required to follow orders handed down by senior Nazi officers.

Are you really saying you'd like to be in the boots on the enemies of democracy, gunning down [insert Allied country here] soldiers?

Germany and Japan were the aggressors in the conflict (Italy is complicated), there is no grey line. If you compare the war crimes of the two sides the difference is obvious.

Death rates of POWs held by Axis powers

* Chinese POWs held by Japan: > 99% (only 56 survivors at the end of the war)
* U.S. and British Commonwealth POWs held by Germany: ~4% [65]
* Soviet POWs held by Germany: 57.5% [67]
* Western Allied POWs held by Japan: 27% [68]

[edit] Death rates of POWs held by the Allies

* German POWs in East European (not including the Soviet Union) hands 32.9%[67]
* German soldiers held by Soviet Union: 15-33% (14.7% in The Dictators by Richard Overy, 35.8% in Ferguson[67])
* Japanese POWs held by Soviet Union: 10%
* German POWs in British hands 0.03%[67]
* German POWs in American hands 0.15%[67]
* German POWs in French hands 2.58%[67]
* Japanese POWs held by U.S.: relatively low, mainly suicides according to James D. Morrow[69] or according to Ulrich Straus high as many prisoners were shot by front line troops.[48]

 

[Echo_419]

Why would you want to play as the Nazi's? Everyone knows thet cant run.
If it was hell for both sides, but there is a better story to tell about treking across europe and fighting Nazi's then there is to be a German and sitting in a bunker waiting or driving trains *wink*

 

[Kojii Doom]

What?! you can go the Nazi's is heaps of games.

to name a few

Battlefield 1942
Brothers in arms: earned in blood
cant think of any more

 

[Mister Ash]

Call me crazy if you want, but how does playing as a Nazi in a WWII FPS, differ from playing as a Terrorist in a Modern FPS?

They're all mass-murdering fuckheads....

 

[happysock]

I think they could sella game playing as nazi's. You kill them in a lot of games so why should you not be able to include them as playable, I suppose though this would kick up a load of racism issues like left 4 dead 2, or call of juarez. I'd buy it though

 

[Christemo]

ive actually wondered of this too. same with a close friend who loves ww2 shooters as well. just 1 really good game where you could play as Nazi´s or a Tojo.

 

[Layzor]

Because they lost.


Would be cool to be defending the vulcano doom fortress though.