Why can't many games do exploration as well as Skyrim?

[Westaway]

Skyrim's exploration falls flag because of enemy scaling. No matter how far you travel, you're going to be fighting enemies your level, and it feels as if you have made no progress.
New Vegas on the other hand rewards you by showing off some high level areas, telling you you're too weak right now but may later return to conquer them. It also has some hidden high level areas such at the Deathclaw Promontory.

No, those areas are why New Vegas isn't an open world game, its called railroading. There is no reward because all they did was put 12 deathclaws in a spot so that your low level character can't sneak by all their forced content. There is nothing there to take advantage of, thus exploration there is more pointless than in skyrim.

Fallout 3 is by far one of the best suggestions made thus far. Both ridiculously big and loaded with interesting things to explore and lore to discover.

Obsidian set the player on a path early in the game to display the complex political situation in the Mojave. Players who started with Fallout 3 needed strong introductions to the factions and an explanation for the relative civility of the region compared to the Capital Wasteland. The "railroading" lasts at most two or three hours until you reach Novac, and that only applies to your first playthrough. It is actually extremely easy to sneak through Quarry Junction at a low level; in my latest playthrough I did it with a sneak skill of 16 or 17 by sticking to the right. I was at Repcon HQ at level three. So I thoroughly disgree with everything you said. In Fallout 3 the only place you couldn't inconsequentially visit at a low level was Old Olney, and even then if you get the sniper from the hollowed rock behind Megaton you could sneak crit those deathclaws pretty well.

 

[Soviet Heavy]

New Vegas and the Stalker Games do exploration really well. Stalker does it great by making everything extremely localized. The Zone is really only a few dozen miles wide and most of it is inhospitable, so the regions you explore are very big, but also highly detailed because they are on a small scale. It lets you put to scale buildings and boats and stations and stuff everywhere and still have the game feel big.

New Vegas does the Wasteland brilliantly by creating a very logical and lived in looking world. There are huge farmlands and dozens of caravans supplying the wasteland, there are rest stops along the major highways and all the "new" buildings are created from concrete and supplies dug up from the quarry. It's not as varied as Skyrim, but I felt that it was more logical.

 

[Riddle78]

Freelancer. Space is big,and the game does everything it can to hammer that point home without being too boring to navigate. In every system,there are features that make you go, "I wonder what's in there?",things like clouds,nebulae,debris fields,and asteroid clusters. Flying between significant areas can lead to great adventure,if you allow yourself to get sidetracked. The Sirius Sector is vast,beautiful,and dangerous. Never a dull moment. Hell,if I want some kicks,I go to the Texas System,and explore the Negra clouds,which are hideously radioactive (which drains your hull integrity),conceal dense debris fields,and the cloud is so thick,you can't see very far.

 

[Reed Spacer]

Skyrim's exploration falls flag because of enemy scaling. No matter how far you travel, you're going to be fighting enemies your level, and it feels as if you have made no progress.
New Vegas on the other hand rewards you by showing off some high level areas, telling you you're too weak right now but may later return to conquer them. It also has some hidden high level areas such at the Deathclaw Promontory.

No, those areas are why New Vegas isn't an open world game, its called railroading. There is no reward because all they did was put 12 deathclaws in a spot so that your low level character can't sneak by all their forced content. There is nothing there to take advantage of, thus exploration there is more pointless than in skyrim.

Fallout 3 is by far one of the best suggestions made thus far. Both ridiculously big and loaded with interesting things to explore and lore to discover.

Obsidian set the player on a path early in the game to display the complex political situation in the Mojave. Players who started with Fallout 3 needed strong introductions to the factions and an explanation for the relative civility of the region compared to the Capital Wasteland. The "railroading" lasts at most two or three hours until you reach Novac, and that only applies to your first playthrough. It is actually extremely easy to sneak through Quarry Junction at a low level; in my latest playthrough I did it with a sneak skill of 16 or 17 by sticking to the right. I was at Repcon HQ at level three. So I thoroughly disgree with everything you said. In Fallout 3 the only place you couldn't inconsequentially visit at a low level was Old Olney, and even then if you get the sniper from the hollowed rock behind Megaton you could sneak crit those deathclaws pretty well.

You can even get to Rivet City (Fallout 3's primary 'town') right after leaving the Vault if you're careful enough.

 

[Casual Shinji]

Are we talking about the same Skyrim? Because seriously, that game just throws the same dungeons filled with the same bandits or zombies at you. It starts out fun enough, but after a while you're just going through the motions, wandering around a world that frankly doesn't have much of any life to it.

Here's the exploration/environmental storytelling of Skyrim; Find cave/castle, clear out cave/castle of enemies, loot their shit, sell shit at nearest merchant. Wash, rinse, repeat. Maybe I'm missing the story hints in the environment here, but in the end it's just a very expansive dungeon crawler.

New Vegas on the otherhand (despite its looks) actually made you fell like you were traversing a world and not some maquette.

 

[Kaymish]

skyrim had heaps of exploration i will give you that but it was like a flooded salt pan the water is only up to your ankles even if it reaches as far as the eye can see there are only so many undead filled caves you can clear out before it gets repetitive and even the ones with a story to them start to get similar

 

[Amaror]

I think the main reason Dragon Age exploration falls flat is that there is basically nothing really rewarding about it. You can find loot on enemies and in chests, but nearly all the loot is completely useless, since everything you craft will be much better anyway, you can gain power through certain actions, but if you are even remotly diligent in finding these things you will have way too much power to have anything meaningfull to do with it, with again makes it useless and not rewarding. The only real thing exploration rewards you with is experience and that is a pretty boring reward for exploration.
Gold is more usefull in skyrim since you can train for money or buy houses. It gets less valuable over time, but a lot of areas you can find also contain interesting quests to solve which are rewarding just with their cool little stories. Another thing Dragon Age fails at since their are just no interesting sidequests.

That being said, in my opinion the absolute king of exploration games remains the risen/gothic series. Exploration is just so much fun in those games. The world is handmade in every game, which means everything just works well for the exploration. If there is a place you can go aside the main path there will always be something there. It might just be a few goldcoins but it can also be a powerfull potion or a nice new weapon. Additionally even a few goldcoins are always usefull. Since the levelling mechanic requires you to use trainers new skills need money and experience, meaning you never have the feeling that money is useless.

 

[Xyebane]

The ES games are usually in development for 5 years and most of that goes into world building. The ES engine is very detail oriented and slow to just slap things together. This is pretty much the best thing ES has going for it (the worlds they make are detailed, rich, and fun to explore) while the rest of the games typically suffer for it (horrible narrative, static, weak combat systems).

I think the time spend making the game world is the key factor, i doubt any other company puts in half as many man hours into it as Bethesda.

 

[V da Mighty Taco]

Skyrim's exploration falls flag because of enemy scaling. No matter how far you travel, you're going to be fighting enemies your level, and it feels as if you have made no progress.
New Vegas on the other hand rewards you by showing off some high level areas, telling you you're too weak right now but may later return to conquer them. It also has some hidden high level areas such at the Deathclaw Promontory.

No, those areas are why New Vegas isn't an open world game, its called railroading. There is no reward because all they did was put 12 deathclaws in a spot so that your low level character can't sneak by all their forced content. There is nothing there to take advantage of, thus exploration there is more pointless than in skyrim.

Fallout 3 is by far one of the best suggestions made thus far. Both ridiculously big and loaded with interesting things to explore and lore to discover.

Sorry dude / ma'am, you're dead wrong there. It's entirely possible and actually quite easy to sneak by those Death-y Claws of Death even at level 1 - I do it all the time, usually with a fairly low sneak stat to boot (though obviously higher sneak helps). All you need to do is sneak between Black Mountain and the Deathclaws (there's a decently size area between the two where neither will detect you), then hug the cliffside where they Deathclaws that might see you (they usually don't if you stay sneaking, as the cliff itself obstructs their view) can't reach. Travel far enough on the cliffside and you'll eventually get out of the DCs' detection range, and from there it's a straight shot to New Vegas or wherever the hell you want to go on that half of the map!

I also don't see what content was forced, at least not until you arrive at New Vegas itself (this is all assuming that you're even trying to beat the main storyline btw, which you are free to ignore as well). None of the missions that you are suppose to do actually have to be done, nor any of those locations visited in order to get to New Vegas. The game even rewards you for doing so by immediately progressing the main questline once you get there, regardless of how many main story missions you have done before. I actually can't think of a single location other than the starting area of Goodsprings that you absolutely have to visit before arriving at New Vegas, even if you take the long route around the map and don't use any shortcuts like the above, Black Mountain itself, or Primm Pass.

 

[PetitDemon]

Skyrim is a glitchy hiking simulator with little to do.
Does it really matter if there's that much ground to cover, if there's so little to do on it?
Much like how many JRPGs pad their games with lots of battles, Elder Scrolls games are padded by all the walking.

I think others not being "as well" is a compliment.

 

[snekadid]

Skyrim's exploration falls flag because of enemy scaling. No matter how far you travel, you're going to be fighting enemies your level, and it feels as if you have made no progress.
New Vegas on the other hand rewards you by showing off some high level areas, telling you you're too weak right now but may later return to conquer them. It also has some hidden high level areas such at the Deathclaw Promontory.

No, those areas are why New Vegas isn't an open world game, its called railroading. There is no reward because all they did was put 12 deathclaws in a spot so that your low level character can't sneak by all their forced content. There is nothing there to take advantage of, thus exploration there is more pointless than in skyrim.

Fallout 3 is by far one of the best suggestions made thus far. Both ridiculously big and loaded with interesting things to explore and lore to discover.

Obsidian set the player on a path early in the game to display the complex political situation in the Mojave. Players who started with Fallout 3 needed strong introductions to the factions and an explanation for the relative civility of the region compared to the Capital Wasteland. The "railroading" lasts at most two or three hours until you reach Novac, and that only applies to your first playthrough. It is actually extremely easy to sneak through Quarry Junction at a low level; in my latest playthrough I did it with a sneak skill of 16 or 17 by sticking to the right. I was at Repcon HQ at level three. So I thoroughly disgree with everything you said. In Fallout 3 the only place you couldn't inconsequentially visit at a low level was Old Olney, and even then if you get the sniper from the hollowed rock behind Megaton you could sneak crit those deathclaws pretty well.

Except that half the map is giant impassable mountain ranges(impassable because of the invisible walls that Obsidian loves so much) that the map is even smaller than it looks with very little content.

Both the people that quoted me need reading comprehension lessons, so LISTEN UP! I said they were PUT THERE to prevent you from sneaking through and at no point did I say that it was impossible to sneak through. My point which you would have understood having passed 5th grade English would be then that the area is pointless, acting only as a artificially promoted guard post, which it is as there is no actual content in that area unless big game Deathclaw hunting was all you wanted.

 

[Blood Brain Barrier]

That being said, in my opinion the absolute king of exploration games remains the risen/gothic series. Exploration is just so much fun in those games. The world is handmade in every game, which means everything just works well for the exploration. If there is a place you can go aside the main path there will always be something there. It might just be a few goldcoins but it can also be a powerfull potion or a nice new weapon. Additionally even a few goldcoins are always usefull. Since the levelling mechanic requires you to use trainers new skills need money and experience, meaning you never have the feeling that money is useless.

You said what I was meaning to say. You're spot on about the loot - it's as if Bethesda and EA and Bioware are afraid of rewarding the player. Crappy, useless swords and a few gold coins on a dead warrior - why bother?

 

[endtherapture]

Obsidian set the player on a path early in the game to display the complex political situation in the Mojave. Players who started with Fallout 3 needed strong introductions to the factions and an explanation for the relative civility of the region compared to the Capital Wasteland. The "railroading" lasts at most two or three hours until you reach Novac, and that only applies to your first playthrough. It is actually extremely easy to sneak through Quarry Junction at a low level; in my latest playthrough I did it with a sneak skill of 16 or 17 by sticking to the right. I was at Repcon HQ at level three. So I thoroughly disgree with everything you said. In Fallout 3 the only place you couldn't inconsequentially visit at a low level was Old Olney, and even then if you get the sniper from the hollowed rock behind Megaton you could sneak crit those deathclaws pretty well.

Except that half the map is giant impassable mountain ranges(impassable because of the invisible walls that Obsidian loves so much) that the map is even smaller than it looks with very little content.

Both the people that quoted me need reading comprehension lessons, so LISTEN UP! I said they were PUT THERE to prevent you from sneaking through and at no point did I say that it was impossible to sneak through. My point which you would have understood having passed 5th grade English would be then that the area is pointless, acting only as a artificially promoted guard post, which it is as there is no actual content in that area unless big game Deathclaw hunting was all you wanted.

And yet New Vegas was still a better game than Fallout 3. The game might have been more linear and story focused, but it was a better designed and more interesting world than the dearth of ruined buildings and annoying subway systems in Fallout 3.

 

[Chester Rabbit]

Because the Elder Scrolls games are all about the world and dem pretty individual leaves on the trees first, and then the game and story come later. Hence why everything is so cold robotic and dull.

 

[J Tyran]

Obsidian set the player on a path early in the game to display the complex political situation in the Mojave. Players who started with Fallout 3 needed strong introductions to the factions and an explanation for the relative civility of the region compared to the Capital Wasteland. The "railroading" lasts at most two or three hours until you reach Novac, and that only applies to your first playthrough. It is actually extremely easy to sneak through Quarry Junction at a low level; in my latest playthrough I did it with a sneak skill of 16 or 17 by sticking to the right. I was at Repcon HQ at level three. So I thoroughly disgree with everything you said. In Fallout 3 the only place you couldn't inconsequentially visit at a low level was Old Olney, and even then if you get the sniper from the hollowed rock behind Megaton you could sneak crit those deathclaws pretty well.

Except that half the map is giant impassable mountain ranges(impassable because of the invisible walls that Obsidian loves so much) that the map is even smaller than it looks with very little content.

Both the people that quoted me need reading comprehension lessons, so LISTEN UP! I said they were PUT THERE to prevent you from sneaking through and at no point did I say that it was impossible to sneak through. My point which you would have understood having passed 5th grade English would be then that the area is pointless, acting only as a artificially promoted guard post, which it is as there is no actual content in that area unless big game Deathclaw hunting was all you wanted.

And yet New Vegas was still a better game than Fallout 3. The game might have been more linear and story focused, but it was a better designed and more interesting world than the dearth of ruined buildings and annoying subway systems in Fallout 3.

Or you can get the Tale of Two Wastelands mod and enjoy both Fallout 3 and New Vegas? Same goes for Skyrim, get Deadly Dragons (don't forget to get a "run for you life" mod for civilians if you do) some immersion related mods, some of the best quest mods (seriously some of them add huge and intricate Zelda type dungeons) and away you go.

Thats the best thing about Bethesda RPGs, you can make them into almost anything you want.

 

[Roxor]

If making something to explore is too expensive to do, then you need a smarter way of making it.

Shamus Young had a project a few years back which created a 32*32km island with sensible environments using procedural content.

 

[likalaruku]

I usually associate massive open worlds with Sandbox Builders & MMOs. I'd say the most exploring I've ever done in a game without actually playing the game or engaging in the story would be Morrowind with the max amount of mods, & RIFT. RIFT has these little shiny artifacts that reward you for diving into lakes, every nook & cranny of towns & dungeons, & climbing the tippy top of every mountain, even attempting to climb trees & rooftops. I would absolutely love more games to do that. (If you know any, do tell).

There's shinies in them thar hills.

 

[Wasted]

I found Skyrim to be incredibly boring. Exploring in that game was a chore to me. The armor, weapon, and level variety was poor and I had a difficult time distinguishing Cave #253 from Cave #834. I started that game on three separate occasions and all three times could not get more than a few hours in. That was one of the few games in my life to actively put me to sleep.

Surprisingly, I loved Fallout 3. I completed the game and covered most of the map at least 3 times. I get so absorbed into that universe. The first completions was just with the vanilla game but every over play through I heavily modded the game. Playing the game with a ton of new enemies, weapons, armors, and locations all organically integrated into the game was like playing the game a new.

RIFT has these little shiny artifacts that reward you for diving into lakes, every nook & cranny of towns & dungeons, & climbing the tippy top of every mountain, even attempting to climb trees & rooftops. I would absolutely love more games to do that. (If you know any, do tell).

There's shinies in them thar hills.

Guild Wars 2 has a ton of exploration bonuses including vistas and jumping puzzles. You get rewarded greatly for exploring the world and filling in you map.

 

[sageoftruth]

Far Cry 3/4 aren't similarly good at exploration?

You can explore around, and find a hut hidden in the trees (FC4), or an abandoned shack down on the beach (FC3). You can find hidden caves, which may lead to a stash of loot, or maybe some old abandoned WW2 bunker.
In FC4, you can also run across random encounters (for karma), although these can sometimes get repetitive.

Is this not similar to Skyrim? (only with guns?)

Not quite. I'd say a game with good exploration needs more than loot and stuff. Some variety is good too (which FC4 improved on by having more varied landscapes). Still, one thing that I believe gave Skyrim and advantage was the fact that in Skyrim, you could uncover locations on your map, whereas in Far Cry, you uncovered hidden items. There were settlements and locations, but they were already available on the map.
Basically, every discovery in Skyrim led to a new adventure, while in Far Cry it led to you stopping to pick up some loot and then moving forward.

Still, Far Cry did a better job at giving you agency in the world. Nothing you did really changed the world around you in Skyrim, while in Far Cry 3, you re-captured the entire island from the pirates, zone by zone. Skyrim may have exploration going for it, but once the novelty of that wears off, there isn't much left in my opinion.