Why Derivative Game Design Doesn't Matter

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BrawlMan

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I never played Sifu in the first place, so I'd probably want to do that before I tried any 'imitators', unless they got stellar reviews on their own. And while I'm not not interested, it's just never gotten to the front of my interest pile.
No problem. Do what works for you.

Basically the same for me. I have Sifu on the Epic Game Store, but haven't gotten around to trying it.
Great news, there is an easy mode that makes the game way less punishing and it takes more deaths for your character actually age. The update came out back in 2023. I remember from our previous conversation, that you weren't interested, due to the high difficulty curb. At least this way, you have better chance of playing the game, and it being less frustrating.
 

Old_Hunter_77

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Still doesn't make it a rouge-lite, and your description is almost any video game with huge difficulty curves or spikes in general. With your view, nearly every hard game or challenging game would be a "rouge-lite".

The only randomization SIFU has, is when certain mooks get turned into elite mooks/powered up state where they get a health boost, more damaging attacks, and some extra defensive options. Though certain ones aren't randomized and will almost always go into a berserk state. That's nothing unique to rouge-lites, and nor regular action games. All Sloclap did is the take the dynamic difficulty and random demon spawning mechanic from God Hand and enemies getting Devil Trigger on Dante Must Die. The only difference being in SIFU, the mooks do this no matter what difficulty you're on.
As you know I've played a ton of Souls and they are infamously hard but do not feel like roguelites because once you kill a boss it stays dead. There is real immediate progress. Going "back" to areas is open world stuff, not going through levels. Sifu and roguelites are repeatedly going through levels you already beat. It's a huge difference in how one is experiencing a game.
I get your point about randomization and yes that is a big part of rogues.
I grew up playing NES and it was all going through really hard levels but then once you beat a level... well, you beat it! And I guess that is so ingrained in my DNA.
 

BrawlMan

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Sifu and roguelites are repeatedly going through levels you already beat.
The same thing can be said when going through harder modes with DMC, Bayonetta, or Ninja Gaiden. Or even on their default difficulty.


I grew up playing NES and it was all going through really hard levels but then once you beat a level... well, you beat it! And I guess that is so ingrained in my DNA.
Similar case. I grew up playing NES, Sega Genesis, Game Boy, and Sega Game Gear.
 
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BrawlMan

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I played Rushing Beat X demo, and so far, it still feels like a Rushing Beat game. Though much better than the previous games in terms of combat and weapon variety. The characters do need a speed loosed, and there are some input delay when it comes to dashing though.

Would this new entry going to 2.5D it feels like a cross between an XBLA games and Demolish Fist. RBX itself feels like a sequel to that game, but so much better.
 

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It's amazing how much Rushing Beat was trying to copy Final Fight and Streets of Rage back in the 90s. More so the latter. It really got noticeable with Rushing Beat Ran though. In the first game, Rick (the Axel and Cody of the two) and Douglas (The Mike Haggar) have a front throw and suplex/wresting move when going behind an enemy, just like in Streets of Rage 1. Rushing Beat 1's story copies Art of Fighting 1 of all things. Mainly the ending for those in the know. The only difference being RB1 doesn't end on a cliffhanger, but has heavy bittersweet ending where Rick's father dies. It does visibly affect him later sequels, and especially in RBX for the first story sequence after beating stage 2. None of the stories/plotlines ever come up with the Western localization versions of the trilogy for dumb reasons and the American division being thundering dumb-asses insulting their target audience. Another attempt to copy the first SOR game was that Jaleco US made Douglas from white to black in the American/EU versions. To compete with SOR, because Adam Hunter is black, and always has been from the start. They also changed Douglas name to "Oozie Neslon", and they changed it again to Slash in Brawl Brothers (Western version of Ran). Douglas being black is now canon in Rushing Beat X, and that game is being done another Japanese developer called City Connection. They gave him beard too.

In Ran, this gets expanded, as each character has a special and special forward attack like Streets of Rage 2. If you use the forward special attack, you lose health no matter if you hit something or not. The unique thing about it, was that if you used your health draining special, you could get your health back by not getting hit for about 10 seconds and your health would fully regenerate at whatever you had at previously. The only advantage Ran has over SOR2, is universal dashing. SOR2 still the better game, because it has 8 stages, better level design, more enemy variety, can fight up to 5-8 enemies at once without any slowdown (blast processing motherfuckers!), and the OST is Godlike!

Rushing Beat Shura is basically Jaleco's attempt at Streets of Rage 3/Bare Knuckle III. More than 4 characters playable, one character has to be unlocked by finding a different/multiple pathways (Shura does a better job with this, but not for the lack of trying in SOR3's case), deeper and darker story line with multiple endings, and new implemented super moves. It is the easiest of the trilogy similar to BKIII, but challenging in the right ways compared to the other two RB games. Shura still has it cheap moments with certain enemies and bosses. It's still not better than either version of SOR3/BKIII. I also don't like half the roster in Shura, so there is less replay value for me at least. I actually prefer Ran over Shura, even though Shura has the surperior gameplay.

Here we are, over 30 years later and we have 4 mainline entry, though it's sequel prequel. It takes places after the first two games, but before Shura. RBX decides to come out 5 years after Streets of Rage 4, and about 5 other Streets of Rage style games. It plays pretty good, even though the early environments are not the best looking. CC decided to go 2.5D with this one, and combat got a complete overhaul. It still feels like Rushing Beat, but there are more direction inputs for ground and air combos or ground and air grapples depending on the character. A super meter, instead of turning red when losing a lot or half of your health. The game itself feels more like a sequel to Demolish Fist of all things, gameplay wise and somewhat thematically when fighting monsters or mutated/genetically modified people.

For comparison:

Rushing Beat X Demo


Demolish Fist Arcade Game