Why did Modern Science develop in Europe

NeutralDrow

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If you haven't read it, I highly recommend the book Guns, Germs, and Steel. The focus for most of it is on why Near Eastern and East Asian areas beat the rest of the world to the punch, but it does ask (and answer) roughly the questions you are.

As for the subject...well, others have already answered most of it, but I'd note the really relevant period where Europe finally leapfrogged ahead of the Ottoman, Mughal, and Chinese Empires was after 1600 or so. At that point, the Ottomans were starting to politically and economically stagnate, the Chinese were turning in on themselves (a repeated historical pattern, though incredibly ironic that this period started during the potentially-expansionist Ming) because they felt the outside world had nothing to offer, and the Mughal were kind of on their own. Since one of the biggest drivers of scientific progress is trade and connection (hence why GGS argues for the east-west axis as a large predictor of Near Eastern production advantage), isolation, whether accidental or deliberate, is counterproductive.

That was also when Europe began its colonial phase and pretty much screwed everyone else over. OT: The Ottomans held on for the longest, were never colonized as such, and even began industrializing along the lines of mainland Europe, but went broke trying. And then the Mughal and Chinese problems with the British...
 

Saetha

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AccursedTheory said:
The churches of the Middle East did.
How so, precisely? Like, what happened differently with the Middle East?

This thread is so interesting. Makes me sad that my school only allows you to take one class on world history, when we had like three on Texas history alone.
 

Superlative

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Saelune said:
arabianstories said:
something I need to know, why did cutting edge science create in Europe and not Islam or China for quite a while before the European rennaisance and even a century or two after that (it wasn't until the seventeenth century taht Europe advanced beyond everybody in science and innovation)

Middle Easterners and Chinese were very exploratory and mechanically advance.So why did cutting edge science create in Europe.
My guess as a History nerd is that because China tried to lock itself in a culture bubble, it stagnated. Europe is many countries, cultures, and peoples, and conflict has a tendancy to create scientific advancement. Plus having all these different ways of thinking creates newer ways of thinking.
Agreed Saelune.

On top of that, Westerners (aka Europeans), tend to have a more mechanical view of the world around them. Constantly trying to break things down into component parts and understanding said parts individually and as they relate to the whole tends to aid scientific advance.

Constant war and not needing to engage in low-harm warfare helped too.
 

Saelune

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Superlative said:
Saelune said:
arabianstories said:
something I need to know, why did cutting edge science create in Europe and not Islam or China for quite a while before the European rennaisance and even a century or two after that (it wasn't until the seventeenth century taht Europe advanced beyond everybody in science and innovation)

Middle Easterners and Chinese were very exploratory and mechanically advance.So why did cutting edge science create in Europe.
My guess as a History nerd is that because China tried to lock itself in a culture bubble, it stagnated. Europe is many countries, cultures, and peoples, and conflict has a tendancy to create scientific advancement. Plus having all these different ways of thinking creates newer ways of thinking.
Agreed Saelune.

On top of that, Westerners (aka Europeans), tend to have a more mechanical view of the world around them. Constantly trying to break things down into component parts and understanding said parts individually and as they relate to the whole tends to aid scientific advance.

Constant war and not needing to engage in low-harm warfare helped too.
Well, to be fair, China started out the gate very strongly. They invented many of the world's first things, and even into Three Kingdoms era China, they had Zhuge Liang and his wife Yue Ying who created many mechanical marvels.

But China as a whole got arrogant and fearful of outside influence, and did not let themselves continue to advance so easily.
 

OneCatch

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Zontar said:
Before the UK took it over there was no Indian identity, and in China the idea of China being a nation is still a similarly new concept)
Not to be excessively pedantic, but Chinese nationalism predates the modern era. Multiple wars of unification suggest that it was a cultural aim and aspiration for a very very long time. The claims by some (mostly Chinese) historians that the Chinese state has been a continuous entity since the Han Dynasty are certainly bullshit, but the concept of Chinese national identity has existed for quite some time nonetheless.
 

Zontar

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OneCatch said:
the concept of Chinese national identity has existed for quite some time nonetheless.
Not really, that's a fairly new thing in China as it is everywhere else. What China has had, however, is the single longest period of cultural hegemony or semi-hegemony overlapping with national boundaries of one or a culturally similar group of kingdoms.

The Chinese concept of the centre of the world (being either in Manchuria, Hebei or Shandong depending on the era) with this area being "most" civilized, the rest of China being slightly less so, client states being less so, and other nations being barbarians.

The history of China and the birth of its identity within that history is quite fascinating. This video is one I've used recently to be a TL;DR explanation of things, though it's a topic one could talk about for hours.

 

Addendum_Forthcoming

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There's multiple reasons. Geography and trade linked numerous European cultures with disparate cultures and the wealth of African kingdoms in the ancient world to the 9th Century. Rome helped to consolidate and make accessible much of the knowledge of the known world and gave the ancient world a system of storing information, as well as provide a strong tradition of record-keeping, and legal codification.

Western philosophy for which much was spared the flame gave initial concepts of atomisation of stuff into simpler components. Which helped originate an early interest in complex chemistry. Western philosophy also provided the first ideas of anatomical sciences separate from spirituality and religiosity. And together Europeans developed this into a rigourous trial and error style observation of pharmacology and surgery.

Pythagorean cults created a comple understanding of geometry. So much was the love of numbers in Western philosophy that it was seen as the language of the divine, the universe, and everything. Which, to be fair, is an attitude we still carry today. But mathematics is basically Western philosophy's most favoured child. The favourite. Well... probably equal to atomisation in terms of how beloved... but mathematics was easier to show to others and connect it to metaphysical ideas.

So much was the love of numbers that there were ancient religions that worshipped them, almost as if it were some gloried form of magic power. That if you knew enough numbers and could invent its proportional relationship to the physical world... you could do *anything*. Which makes sense when you realize what you can do with mathematics in terms of wondrous architecture, in terms of design, in terms of understanding the physics of form and function.

So thr long answer being... it was a whole load of stuff, but the most important tool was Western philosophy. Western philosophy gave Europeans an edge over all other cultures. Western philosophy created the tools for science to emerge. A society can't develop the latter without the former... you can't have modern science without the creation of a language and a train of thought geared solely to exploring the metaphysical of what things really are. What is really there... a pursuit in the form of skeptical interrogation of the universe.

Hell... some of the very first theorems concerning apace-time originated from an ancient thought that if essentialism is held to be true... merely taking one step outside the universe, and turning around to observe it once more, would reveal a solid block of all non-potentiality. Pretty hefty ideas for some guys in .... 8th Century BCE? I can't remember exactly when...

Regardless Western philosoohy by the 17th and 18th century had already shaken off much of the inherent limitations imposed by the religiosity of the era, as well had already largely unshackled itself from concepts of innate intuition of qualities. Which allowed concepts of true theory. The positing that there needs to be exponential fragmentation of thought and means to observe the qualities that lay beyond native contemplation in order to pursue truth. While in the East you still had idea of philosophy as a holidtic intuition of wellness and whole of being. While in the West, it shat sll over that idea and brought forward the idea of complexity and analytics. Which gave birth to modern concepts of scientific exploration ... facts-based research, specialised interrogation, etc.
 

Frezzato

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I highly recommend the TV show Connections, written and hosted by James Burke. I can't say I'm in touch with all the history that he references in that show, but it's insanely entertaining for anyone that's even relatively curious about history, both modern and ancient.

It's kind of hard to find, and you can probably only see it if you buy the expensive DVD sets, but I love it, even his giant 70s collars and his fixation on Ptolemy.
 

irishda

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Scapthat said:
what you you mean the middle east and asia did it "better"



there were of course great Arab polymath,scientists and thinkers as well as asian scientists...but Newton was really the one that turned science into a rigorous study
Because almost any scientific advancement you can think of in medieval Europe was already invented by someone else in Asia or the Middle East, but it's the victors who write history, and the British Empire dominating a quarter of the world means everyone thinks Europe invented "being a scientist". Hell, I bet most people don't even know there was a sub-Saharan African civilization already in the Iron Age while everyone else was using fucking stone.

The short answer is pure luck as to why western Europe ahead scientifically though during the late middle ages and into the colonial era. The long answer involves keeping your competition down through economic and military means or outright stealing it when it does find something good.
 

Catnip1024

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Many, many factors.

Willingness to take other people's technology and adapt it in new ways... e.g. gunpowder, the compass. A lack of the insularity you got in places like China or Japan.

As said above, the Printing Press helped kick off proper communication and sharing of research. The university system (correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think there was much in the way of a University network outside of Europe) allowing people dedicated to research, and the societies and networks that formed as a result.

A gradual overhaul of the feudal system to allow common people to raise themselves through work, and the guilds system.

The varying strength of the Catholic church through the ages, leading to periods where science could flourish. And subsequently the lack of a single authoritative head for the Protestant religions.

But I believe most importantly, the weather. Lot's of time spent indoors waiting for that damn rain to stop. Same reason we went off to discover various other places.
 

Catnip1024

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irishda said:
The short answer is pure luck as to why western Europe ahead scientifically though during the late middle ages and into the colonial era. The long answer involves keeping your competition down through economic and military means or outright stealing it when it does find something good.
Building on someone elses work isn't stealing, it's being open minded. If the world of research worked with a copyright system, we'd still be ploughing fields by hand.

And good luck using "pure luck" as an answer in a history exam.
 

Cowabungaa

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NeutralDrow said:
If you haven't read it, I highly recommend the book Guns, Germs, and Steel. The focus for most of it is on why Near Eastern and East Asian areas beat the rest of the world to the punch, but it does ask (and answer) roughly the questions you are.
Though I haven't literally read it, except some bits, but that book's academic positions are problematic. I wish I had the details in my mind but I studied it in a few classes that dealt with history as a science. My anthropology class talked about it as well. I do remember that it focuses too much on the material dimension of culture and so misses a lot of factors and nuances in historical and cultural explanations of why certain things in our past happened the way they did.
 

DefunctTheory

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Cowabungaa said:
NeutralDrow said:
If you haven't read it, I highly recommend the book Guns, Germs, and Steel. The focus for most of it is on why Near Eastern and East Asian areas beat the rest of the world to the punch, but it does ask (and answer) roughly the questions you are.
Though I haven't literally read it, except some bits, but that book's academic positions are problematic. I wish I had the details in my mind but I studied it in a few classes that dealt with history as a science. My anthropology class talked about it as well. I do remember that it focuses too much on the material dimension of culture and so misses a lot of factors and nuances in historical and cultural explanations of why certain things in our past happened the way they did.
I have read it, and yes, some of it is... suspect. I wouldn't suggest anyone read it to find out the 'absolute truth' of the matter.

It does, however, contain some interesting ideas and evidence. Nothing final, but some stuff to mull over.
 

Terminal Blue

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Okay, so reading back.. everyone is thinking way, way too early.

"Modern science" in the sense of the materialist, empiricist method we use today, in the sense of having people who are scientists and who specialise in a field and whose entire job is to advance material understanding of the world is extremely recent. Like, a couple of centuries old at best. Before that, science is very, very different. Heck, let me give a few examples of scientific beliefs which were common in early modern Europe, and which illustrate weird features of early modern scientific thought.

In the sixteenth century, most literate people believed that women possessed the same sexual organs as men which had simply failed to manifest externally due to the body itself not having enough energy (or "vital heat"). This was not a common belief in the medieval period, but became increasingly popular as the church ban on dissections were relaxed and people started looking inside corpses. The reason was that people thought the reproductive organs of men and women looked visually similar when dissected, and therefore they must be the same (the law of resemblances). Weirdly, this remained the conventional medical opinion until the end of the 18th century.

This also shows another thing which was commonly believed well into the 19th century, that unseen forces or life energies could influence how things worked. For example, in the early 19th century many doctors and medical scientists believed that masturbation would make men ill, because their bodies had a finite supply of energy which losing semen would exhaust (vitalism)

For most of 19th century, it was considered entirely normal for a scientist to use their emotions or feelings as evidence, because feelings were thought to come from a kind of inherent sensitivity to the world (sentimentalism). For example, one Swiss-American evolutionist (Louis Agassiz) appears to have based a large part of his theory of human evolution on his experience of getting creeped out by his first meeting with a black person. This also manifested in the common belief that statements which were persuasive were more likely to be true, because the persuasiveness came from an interior emotional sensitivity to the truth.

So no. European science, and actually for the most part European technological superiority, is a fairly recent thing. It certainly can't be traced all the way back to the late medieval period or the feudal system, or even to the age of discovery or the renaissance. Until very recently, a lot of the conclusions produced by European science were complete rubbish, because the means by which they were derived were incredibly flawed.

Okay. So let's assume we're not talking about science, but rather about power. Because that's what we're really seeking to explain here, isn't it. How did Europeans achieve global dominance?

The answer is that noone definitively knows. There are many theories, but one thing we can almost completely rule out is technological determinism. Europeans did not become globally dominant because they had superior technology. It isn't because they had guns and non-Europeans didn't, for example, because wherever Europeans went they sold their guns. Guns were very quickly adopted by virtually every society which had even the slightest contact with Europeans. Likewise, it isn't just because they had printing presses. There were printing presses in China too.

Weirdly, one of the few possibilities for a technologically determinant explanation is eyeglasses, because glasses are one of the few pre-nineteenth century European inventions which did not also exist elsewhere. It might sound silly, but think about it.. with glasses, people could carry on reading well into old age, which meant they could effectively double the time they were able to be intellectually active throughout their lives.

But no, I'm not saying it's eyeglasses. I think the far more likely theory is the development of a stadial consciousness of time, which is not a technological development at all but rather a change in mentality.

Basically, in late medieval and early modern Europe you have these two horrendous events. The black death, and then the wars of religion. The latter in particular is, relative to the population size, the most destructive event in European history. Millions of people are massacred in wars and civil unrest between Catholics and Protestants. It is, essentially, like a nuclear war happening today, and like a nuclear war it destroys a lot of the institutions and culture which held the old order together. So what happens, after the wars of religion is that people have to start building a new society, and more importantly they have to start building a new kind of society, one which isn't going to be perpetually warring over religious differences. So you need new institutions, you need new ideas, you need new forms of government. Essentially, the old world has failed, and people start developing their sense that they're living in a new period of time, a time when everything is different before and where the old rules no longer apply.

That sense of being at a particular point in time which is unprecedented, of having a sense that the future and the past are different and that one is at the point of moving between them rather than simply repeating what your parents did before you is the essence of modernity. It's what it means for us to say we are "modern" people, because we live in a time which is different from the past. It's also immensely enabling, because it means you are no longer bound to the past. It's no longer necessary to keep doing the same things because they've always been done. If there's a better way of doing something, you can do that instead.