Why didn't more people complain about Kai Leng in Mass Effect 3?

Joccaren

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You've never been to BSN have you?
For a while there around one in five threads was bashing Kai Leng for being too Final Fantasy for Mass Effect, for having Cutscene magic, and for being an allround shitty villain who's just good for eating people's cereal.

There have been a lot of complaints about him.
 

soren7550

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hermes200 said:
Also, not to go with the cliche "I was into it before it was cool" cliche; but I hated his sorry ass long before ME3. He is a big character in 3 of the 4 novels, and all I ever wanted was someone to give him some brain ventilation. I haven't hated a character more since the "Song of Ice and Fire" books... So, kudos to them, I guess.
He was only in two of the four Mass Effect novels; Retribution and Deception.

Anyway, in Retribution he was characterized well enough, and my god I hated his ass. He was a former N7 that was given a dishonorable discharge after killing a krogan with a knife while on leave, and his service record and hatred caught the eye of TIM. TIM had him broken out of prison and made him his top assassin and right and man. During the story, he killed several turian guards and Aria's daughter, took out Paul Grayson and had him delivered to TIM (where he was subsequently injected with Reaper technology), saved TIM, took down Anderson and Sanders, made his way into Grissom Academy and shot a student, and was essentially a super solder who was able to get away in the end despite being shot in both legs.

Deception... the less said about that, the better.

So, knowing this, I didn't have that much of a problem with him in ME3 since I already knew about him. Did it make me hate him more? Of course, and boy was I glad that I was able to gut him like a fish. Was his plot armor annoying? Indeed. But there was *way* worse things about the game than that.
 

Something Amyss

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Guitarmasterx7 said:
Bioware fans are clearly a very vocal community that claims to care about good writing in their games, Mass Effect 3 in particular.
LOL. If they cared about good writing, they would have stopped before Mass Effect came out.

If they cared about good characters, Garrus wouldn't have a single fan.

What I'm saying is, thought it's true they claim to be big on good writing, they are really fond of familiar stories and stock characters they can instantly rely on. Many characters in Mass Effect are already no stronger than Marcus Fenix.

So it boggles my mind that I've seen pretty much no mention of Kai Leng.
Well, there has been.

The ending was nowhere near as dumb to me as one of the main antagonists being a ninja dude wielding a katana. Someone using a sword would be useless against present day firearms,
lol.

Even giving Leng the benefit of the doubt that he's somehow got the skill and tech to be more lethal with close range weapons, why is he using a steel katana and not some crazy weightless hologram laser blade like Shepard has?
Because katanas can cut through tanks.

because shepard can straight up break it with his/her fist.
Wow, space Jesus can break an awesome blade with her hands? Colour me shocked.

Are ninjas cool enough to where it's excusable?
That depends on whether you're coming from the "good writing" school of doing things, or the Bioware "trope roulette" school of things.
 

bojackx

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Well, Thane used just his fists when you first meet him, and against Kai Leng, and you don't see anyone hating on Thane.

I'll admit the entire katana thing is pretty far-fetched, but I don't think it was enough to make me stop and think "What the hell game!?" or anything (that being said, I wasn't renegade Shepard, so I didn't do the sword-breaking thing, which probably would have made me go "What the hell game!?").
 

RJ 17

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Guitarmasterx7 said:
I was going to post this in another thread but I'm actually looking for a response here.

Bioware fans are clearly a very vocal community that claims to care about good writing in their games, Mass Effect 3 in particular. So it boggles my mind that I've seen pretty much no mention of Kai Leng.

The ending was nowhere near as dumb to me as one of the main antagonists being a ninja dude wielding a katana. Someone using a sword would be useless against present day firearms, let alone a distant future with full auto laser guns and crazy psychic powers. It's completely absurd that all the characters seem to treat this guy like he's this huge threat even though every single one of them has a firepower advantage over him.

Even giving Leng the benefit of the doubt that he's somehow got the skill and tech to be more lethal with close range weapons, why is he using a steel katana and not some crazy weightless hologram laser blade like Shepard has?

You can't even try to suspend your disbelief and assume his sword is made of some sort of super metal or that it's some wicked awesome tech katana because shepard can straight up break it with his/her fist. Then just to add insult to injury, Shepard stabs Leng with the hologram blade. I'm pretty sure that even though there was nobody else in the room with me I said "oh come on really?" out loud when this happened. Then felt like a loser.

What did you think of Kai Leng? Is this bothering me more than it should? Are ninjas cool enough to where it's excusable? Why haven't I seen this mentioned even by people looking for excuses to call this game out on bad writing?

I'm legitimately curious, let me know what you think.
First of all, with what you said in the spoiler box beneath the video: there's nothing wrong with talking to yourself...as long as you don't talk back. :p

Anyways, as for the rest of it, ummmmm, yeah, there's been tons of complaints about him. Really don't know what threads you've been reading to miss it, though I do admit that ME 3 topics tend to become quite chaotic very quickly.

The short answer is that a lot of people hated him. A LOT. Mostly because of the encounter on Thessia.

Now, as for him being a sword-weilding ninja. Yes, he specializes in melee combat with acrobatic skills. To compensate for this, he has a little barrier-thing in his palm, as seen when he lands on the roof of Shepard's car, Shepard leans out and starts shooting at him, and he just lifts his hand and makes a little bubble around himself. In theory, he can avoid and protect himself from bullets until he gets close enough to strike. But I never had a problem with him. He seems to be highly allergic to Black Widow bullets to the face. :p

Now, as for my personal opinion on the guy, yes, I hated him, like pretty much everyone else. Apparently he was introduced in a Mass Effect book somewhere along the line and even back then he was a complete worthless douche of a tool. However, I personally think that Bioware intended this. I think they WANTED you to hate him, that's why he's so god damn arrogant and obnoxious. Case in point: the only reason he beats you on Thessia is because he calls in a fucking airstrike to level the entire building. When that happened I remember saying out loud to myself "Oh, nice kill-streak, bro...find that in a care package?" And on top of beating you in the most bullshit panzy-ass way, he then follows up by writing you an email about how he just kicked your ass, that you're absolutely pathetic and he can't wait to meet again so that he can finish you off. When alllllllll the evidence up to that point points to one thing: HE'S A TOTAL FUCKING *****! Gets his ass beat and has to run away like a sissy on the Citadel. Gets his ass beat and calls in an airstrike like a sissy on Thessia. And I think that's what makes all the talk going on during the final fight against him that much more meaningful: Shepard is pointing all of these things out, he really IS nothing but a low-life coward. The best comeback he has during the fight is "Sh-shut up!"

So yeah, I think Bioware WANTED you to hate Kai Leng. I think they wanted you to feel an emotional connection of rage so that you'd be actively looking forward to killing the prick. I don't know about you, but I couldn't WAIT to smash his face in. To do, as Garrus suggests, "Bottle up all your anger and rage and use it to rearrange every molecule in Kai Leng's body."

As for for his sword, if it does the job, what does it matter if it's solid or a form of an omniblade? It's still deadly either way.
 

Patrick Buck

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Didn't complain, because I didn't hate him.
Well, I did hate him, but I loved to hate him.
Plus the kantana thing? I'm pretty certain they're supposed to be weak as fuck for blows to them, they cut, but if anything hits the side of them, or they get used in a duel, the break. Because they're so sharp, they sacrifice strength.
 

Zhukov

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Really?

I've seen people bitching up a storm about him all over the place.

Personally, eh... not too fussed. He was just there to kill stuff on behalf of the Illusive Man who wasn't a combatant.

Besides, the sword isn't all he uses. He has one of those phantom glove-gun things as well.
 

orangeapples

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OlasDAlmighty said:
Canadish said:
How to introduce a villain - by Mac Walters

Step 1: Introduce him in some spin off material that only a handful of people bought. Have him do something badass, like steal someone's cereal, eat it and then clean up after himself. Goldilocks herself would be proud.

Step 2: Have him only show up in the last game of a trilogy. Who needs forethought or planning? Save yourself time by just making shit up on the fly. Some might say these cheapens the impact he leaves and doesn't leave the player feeling rewarded. But ignore them, they're entitled.

Step 3: Make sure he's SUPER BADASS. The kids like that chinese animu shit right? Make him a ninja. A ROBOT ninja. With some super sword made with magical space steel.

Step 4: Make him scary! Have him beat the players over and over, and make sure they can't ruin your perfect story with a thing like "interaction" or "choice".

Step 5: Make sure the players know he's serious! Have him contact and laugh at the player. An angry email is the best for this, so you don't have to have the artists do any work then! I'm such a genius.

Step 6: Make sure the players feel SUPER COOL when they beat him! Have them like...breat his sword or something...with their fist! Huh? Oh right it's made of that bullet deflecting space steel....ah fuck it, I think it's cool!

And there you have it! The PERFECT bad guy!|
This... this so much.
In fact Kaiden, James, Diana Allers, magic glowey kid, all the new characters in ME3 were pretty bad. EDI doesn't count.
Kaiden? He's from ME1. and EDI was from ME2...
 

Terrible Opinions

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RJ 17 said:
So yeah, I think Bioware WANTED you to hate Kai Leng. I think they wanted you to feel an emotional connection of rage so that you'd be actively looking forward to killing the prick. I don't know about you, but I couldn't WAIT to smash his face in. To do, as Garrus suggests, "Bottle up all your anger and rage and use it to rearrange every molecule in Kai Leng's body."
Thing is... there are different kinds of hate.

And I didn't have that kind of hate. I wasn't waiting to kill him. I didn't cheer when I finally did him in. I didn't want to rearrange every molecule in his body.

I wanted him to go away. And then in those parts of the games where he was not, I forgot he existed. Then he showed up again and I hated him - his appearance, his terrible uselessness in a fight, how stupid he makes everyone in cutscenes - then he went away again and I forgot he existed.

Then there was the final fight with him where he didn't touch me once and the cutscene at the end where he's lying down and everyone is looking away doing nothing and I said to myself, "Well, everyone's come down with a case of the cutscene stupids, so he can't be dead. I'm probably going to kill him in this cutscene."

Surpriii-ise!
 

teh_Canape

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well, his sword is, in fact, a special type of FUTURE METAL FROM SPACE
also, remember that Shepard is a cyborg and more than a regular soldier
it's kidna made known in particular in ME2, when you're told that thanks to its upgrades, Shepard can wield weapons no ordinary soldier could, such as the Claymore (a weapon that could only be used by krogan due to a recoil so mighty it could break the user's arm) or the Widow (which is said to be so powerful only advanced frameworks like Geth could use it)
 

RJ 17

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The Crotch said:
RJ 17 said:
So yeah, I think Bioware WANTED you to hate Kai Leng. I think they wanted you to feel an emotional connection of rage so that you'd be actively looking forward to killing the prick. I don't know about you, but I couldn't WAIT to smash his face in. To do, as Garrus suggests, "Bottle up all your anger and rage and use it to rearrange every molecule in Kai Leng's body."
Thing is... there are different kinds of hate.

And I didn't have that kind of hate. I wasn't waiting to kill him. I didn't cheer when I finally did him in. I didn't want to rearrange every molecule in his body.

I wanted him to go away. And then in those parts of the games where he was not, I forgot he existed. Then he showed up again and I hated him - his appearance, his terrible uselessness in a fight, how stupid he makes everyone in cutscenes - then he went away again and I forgot he existed.

Then there was the final fight with him where he didn't touch me once and the cutscene at the end where he's lying down and everyone is looking away doing nothing and I said to myself, "Well, everyone's come down with a case of the cutscene stupids, so he can't be dead. I'm probably going to kill him in this cutscene."

Surpriii-ise!
Fair enough, I suppose, but you DID still hate him. Don't try to tell me that when you finally shank that fucker in the ribs you didn't feel even a tiny bit of satisfaction.

And of course you were going to kill him in a cutscene. I knew that before the fight even started. How lame would it have been if you beat the piss out of him (to this day - and I've played 9 playthroughs - he has yet to land a finger on me. Ever. On Thessia or in the Cerberus base) and he just falls down dead or gets insta-gibbed (if you're using the right weapon) at the end of combat. The end, he's done. Granted, my first time playing through I figured it'd cut to an "end of the fight" cutscene in which you kill him and then go about your business, but really I'm not complaining about out-ninja'ing him at the end.
 

Terrible Opinions

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No, I didn't really feel any satisfaction. The second I saw everyone looking out a window for no particular reason, I knew he was going to stand up and Bioware was going to make a desperate stab for catharsis. All I could think of was the MST3k bit at the end of Space Mutiny: "And then he opens his eyes. He opens his eyes. Watch. He opens his eyes. It's coming. He opens his... HAH! He opened his eyes!"

There was no joy in killing him. At best, relief that I wouldn't have to see him again, and a bit of disappointment that the developers tried to make me feel "badass" for finishing off their pet ninja.
 

ServebotFrank

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I did not many problems with his plot armor because there are characters throughout the series (like Saren) who possessed Plot Armor. I just didn't like that he was a static-flat character in a series that demands Antagonists to be Rounded. Could easily be worst however.
 

ATRAYA

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Being a major sword buff, and a crazy person who would choose a sword over a gun as my weapon of choice ANY DAY, I don't have much of a problem with Kai. The only thing I find a bit off-putting is that he just kind of came out of nowhere, and everyone was like, "Oh look, it's the most wanted man in the galaxy that Shepard, the famous Spectre, ISN'T aware of."

However, it wasn't much the writing that I disliked (even though I disliked very little of that anyway), but more his character design. I think they went a little overboard on the whole "futuristic ninja" look. I hold the opinion that he would have appeared better with a more full-body, Mandalorian-esque armor set, especially in the visor, instead of those stupid goggles he's got.
 

PurePareidolia

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That's quite true, there isn't enough rage at Kai Leng. Not NEARLY enough. I mean, if the ending didn't suck as bad as it did, that's what I'd be making protest groups over.
 

OpticalJunction

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They did, it was just drowned out by the myriad of other complaints, most of them centering on the crap ending. It's a wonder people didn't complain more about the auto dialog too. That was worse than the ending for me.
 

Kopikatsu

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I don't know if it was mentioned yet, but Kai Leng was part of the expanded universe despite not appearing in a game previous to ME3.

The reason he uses the sword is probably because he's a huge badass in the book series whenever he gets his hands on something sharp and pointy. He became a Spectre because he killed a Krogan in a bar fight with a normal combat knife. He killed a Krogan with a knife. A Krogan. With a knife.

Also, I don't really find fault with his boss fights. Would it have been better if he'd been completely invulnerable during the fights you're meant to lose? I mean...there really is no way to make a boss challenging with ME3's game mechanics. Shepard is just too powerful, both in the story and in gameplay.
 

NickBrahz

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My Shepard was a soldier, he can shoot the smoke out of a persons hand at 400m away with a handgun, but he can't even shoot Kai Leng at what 5 meters away? That's the most bullshit thing ever,

In cutscenes it shows him as an unstopable force and when it shows my Shep shooting at Kai, he couldn't even hit a barn at 3 meters away, the second it shows me in combat i rip through his barriers and shields in what 10 seconds before he becomes invincible, rinse and repeat 5 times then there is a cutscene where his power boosts from 5 to over 9000 and my sheps drops from over 9000 to 5.
 

Olas

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orangeapples said:
Kaiden? He's from ME1. and EDI was from ME2...
Brainfart, I meant Kai Leng not Kaiden. Their names are similar, my bad. Kaiden's cool.
And I was refering to how EDI got a physical body and became a squadmate in ME3, but as I said, that doesn't count.
 

008Zulu_v1legacy

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TopazFusion said:
the cut-scene induced plot armor was pretty frustrating.
I was shouting at my computer (something I have never done) "I have a sniper rifle that can shoot through walls, stop using the shitty little pistol!!!

Kai Leng is a *****. Not the tough kind, not the kind that makes you stop playing the game forever, but the kind acts all tough but dies far faster than his made up badassery would have you believe.

It was very satisfying (in the final fight) to line up a perfect headshot (with said sniper rifle) and be rid of his miserable existence. Though to be honest, I am sad his head didn't pop like a ripe melon.

Other than being an annoying little tard, he dies very easily. Not enough to complain over really.