Why do developers hop and skip over simple things?

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MarksInnerDemon

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Feb 25, 2011
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Image from

http://www.knewance.com/comparisons/clip-v-magazine.html

I know deep down my complaint will either fall on deaf ears or legitimately have the counter argument of balancing game mechanics, but....

Why is it more games these days select a theme give you this wonderful digitally beautiful world, and then bomb the cut scenes, item mods, and down right ignore the simple fix of asking someone in the field a few questions? All while nearly screaming in advertisements, and interviews with developers the claim its so realistic. They want you to feel like you are really there. Gentlemen and the few ladies, please understand that people who may not have been there but walked nearby will see glaring failures. I am sure I could read one car magazine and start picking some of the street racing games apart which brings me to my evidence.

Lets take car games. For instance through the years people have tweaked riveted and hammered on vehicles to no end which have, forums, magazines, and tons of semi-intelligent people who seem to realize, hey that can't go on X vehicle or X part cant go on that. My buddy did a little street racing before excessive tickets and he still love race video games. It's cheaper and while not as thrilling he has a kid and well hell he doesn't want to die. However he will be involved and they will botch something so hard he nearly stops playing. The worst part is he starts saying that and bam I just don't really want to play the new realistic and digitally inspiring race game....

For me the ones that really hit home are the firearms in games. I continually here the word clip, from soldiers and even worse special forces. Anyone who has been in the military knows that 90% of all modern weapons you play have magazines. Yes some have clips to load, but I have seen them say magazine for clip. (Face palm) Not a big deal you say.... no but to several people I know who are around weapons we constantly have to correct this, and it would be like someone calling Lisa Foiles, Lizzy Flows(no offense you just happened to be the last vid I watched). Yes the first time you hear it you chuckle the messed that up and correct them, then you hear it again, and again and again. "Isn't that brunette lady Lizzy Flows doing some funny vids on the scrapist website?", and maybe you can see my point. God knows poor Lisa and the moderators are probably getting ready to hit the delete button it burns so bad.

I wont even get into weapons doing things that they most certainly can't do, some of its game-play dynamics, but when you hear the wrong thing out some guy you expect to be the baddest of the bad. Well lets just say if he kept those failures through basic he would either look like the Hulk by the end or be stuck doing some minor job like lead MWR volleyball issuer. Frankly the people who like battle games many times ends up being the military. It never ceases to amaze me when you are walking into a tent, and you see a guy getting incoming mortars in a game and realize that what you were doing the night before. I am glad the games pull out the dumb crap like sitting in a bunker forever after a attack, but yeah.

Developers you don't have to pay someone tons of money, and you don't have to release your game to 1000 people, but ask around, find the good forums with gun nuts, historians and car gurus. Most of these people field idiot questions all day, and the majority will give you all the right answers for a few bites extra on a credit line at the end of a game.
 

vato_loco

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May 24, 2010
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While I completely understand your point and actually share it a little, there is one thing you're not taking into consideration: not many people care.

See, I'm the type of guy that really gets inside a book. There'll come a point where I don't "read", I'm actually playing the book in my head like a movie. And then comes a spelling / grammar mistake. Fuck it, I'm completely out of the book now.

Sometimes, the same thing happens with games, like you say. I'll be driving the fuck out of a McLaren in Gran Turismo 5 and suddenly something (crashes, usually) feels... out of place. Weird. FAKE. And because GT5 aims to realism, it stands out more. So there, I'm out of the game. But 2 minutes later, I'm all over it again. I KNOW it's a game, and I KNOW that I'm not to expect complete realism (not on this generation of consoles, at least), so I let it go.

While it may not seem to be too expensive to do a little research, it's not like it matters much anyway. I mean, if they had to make reloading realistic, we'd all be thorougly dead 5 minutes into the game. Hell, add a "my gun's jammed!" feature and there you go, complete realism.
 

MarksInnerDemon

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Feb 25, 2011
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AmrasCalmacil - I figured I would get that response, but I was selling you cheese pizza, and you got mushrooms on it you would complain. Why do we as vato_loco states seem to ignore these inconsistencies. Now if they say here's a game like ohh dead space, no one cares what wrong. Do we as a consumer allow people to cut corners because we don't pay attention enough, or is 50-60 dollars for a game that claims realism ok?

Maybe its action movies that screwed to much up that had broken are back on this subject. Then again action movies don't claim realism, but think if Black Hawk Down had people jumping things with motorcycles, and people ninja flipping off buildings. On a side not a flash game I don't care if they call it bananas.... strange.

Just a point to yours not trying to call you out.
 

Jordi

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Jun 6, 2009
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I think I mostly agree on the really little details. However, I have to say that I would sooner associate the word "clip" with a thing that holds the ammo in a gun, than "magazine". I don't know if that really is an issue for a lot of other people (I am not native English), but when someone tells me to get a new magazine, my first instinct would probably be to look for a shop that sells PlayboysDonald Ducks. I think they use this terminology in movies too.

However, I do agree that things like this should probably normally be fixed. Terminology won't bother most people, but some people might notice and there is usually no reason not to do it right (you can't tell me that this has any significant cost).

In a game that aims to be realistic, realism should be a priority as long as it doesn't interfere with the fun. I understand that some people won't like that both car/gun A and car/gun B can use engine part/bullet type C, but that probably just makes the game nicer to play, so I have no issue with stuff like that.
 

Hyper-space

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MarksInnerDemon said:
AmrasCalmacil - I figured I would get that response, but I was selling you cheese pizza, and you got mushrooms on it you would complain. Why do we as vato_loco states seem to ignore these inconsistencies. Now if they say here's a game like ohh dead space, no one cares what wrong. Do we as a consumer allow people to cut corners because we don't pay attention enough, or is 50-60 dollars for a game that claims realism ok?

Maybe its action movies that screwed to much up that had broken are back on this subject. Then again action movies don't claim realism, but think if Black Hawk Down had people jumping things with motorcycles, and people ninja flipping off buildings. On a side not a flash game I don't care if they call it bananas.... strange.

Just a point to yours not trying to call you out.
The thing with the pizza, a change in toppings would be quite noticeable and you do not have to be an gun-enthusiast to know the difference between what you ordered and what you got.

This is just classic nit-picking and generally developers tend to focus on the bigger issue, such as gameplay, story (sometimes), graphics and so on. So having slight fuck-ups (such as not knowing the difference between magazines and clips) come up now and then is not some grand, inexcusable offence for which there is no repentance.
 
Apr 28, 2008
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Yeah, I know how you feel. Although normally I usually don't care, but when my friends start misusing the word because of the games, thats what really gets me.

Another thing that annoys me is that in games weapon ammunition is based on bullets, rather then magazines/clips. This means you can reload an ungodly amount of times(if you have 300 bullets, you can reload about 299 times. You apparently are carrying that many magazines on you). Its just silly. I wish more games went with the Battlefield 2 approach. Which does use a magazine-reload feature rather then bullet reload(except for certain guns where you reload the actual bullets, like some shotguns).

Would also help teach people to not reload after every damn shot. You have 29 bullets in the magazine out of 30, and you reload? Does not make sense.
 

Zechnophobe

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Feb 4, 2010
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MarksInnerDemon said:
Clips Aren't Magazines. Now let me spend many paragraphs getting angry at people who get it wrong.
Honestly, specialized knowledge is specialized. It sucks that a few things are done wrong in each game though. It also shows one of the current differences between games and other forms of story telling. Due to the large number of options in books to read, for example, authors that go out of their way to get it exactly right can stand out. Given the comparatively small numbers of games made, it is less important.

To be honest, the number of small things done wrong is actually very very high, but each person only notices certain ones of them. And taken as a whole, that many small things can be insurmountable.
 

oplinger

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Sep 2, 2010
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MarksInnerDemon said:
Lets take car games. For instance through the years people have tweaked riveted and hammered on vehicles to no end which have, forums, magazines, and tons of semi-intelligent people who seem to realize, hey that can't go on X vehicle or X part cant go on that. My buddy did a little street racing before excessive tickets and he still love race video games. It's cheaper and while not as thrilling he has a kid and well hell he doesn't want to die. However he will be involved and they will botch something so hard he nearly stops playing. The worst part is he starts saying that and bam I just don't really want to play the new realistic and digitally inspiring race game....
Okay, I see you argument with clips and magazines. However much I don't give a damn, it would annoy me too if I was a gun nut I guess.


But this? Did you think about the whole game aspect of it? My honda is not an aston. My Plymouth Horizon isn't a high performance vehicle. Now, if I had, say...a large variety of cars to choose from. Are some cares just...better? ...Yes. So in order to make most cars viable in most brackets of races, you have to forgo realism and make upgrades you normally can't do. It also serves to make the better cars that much more special. They can cost much more than upgrades, and the cheaper upgrades allow for you to save up more money.

I'm sure you're not going to have any argument on the fact that you're also not supposed to drift but drifting is often encouraged because it makes people feel awesome or something.

Realism arguments are silly.
 

Inkidu

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Mar 25, 2011
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It actually does not matter. what's on the left is a stripper clip. What's on the right is a box-clip. They're both called magazines because a magazine is any place where ammunition (or the means to fire it) are kept. That's why ships had powder magazines.
 

Goldeneye103X2

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Jun 29, 2008
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To be fair, you have kind of got a point. I don't let things slide usually, but that's only because I have OCD, and it pisses so many people off. Although I also get it when people say that they don't care.

But it's nice when developers take time out to do research. Hideo Kojima is most likely the best example of this. I love the way he researches the different military techniques and scientific names and such. It's not necassary, but it just makes his games that little bit better.
 

Bad Jim

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Nov 1, 2010
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Why get so worked up about confusing clips and magazines and ignore the fact that if you get shot you can hide behind a wall and be perfectly healthy in a few seconds?
 

Drake_Dercon

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Sep 13, 2010
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I don't like realism anyway. Games are much more fun when you make shit up.

Focusing on mechanical realism and having to mix in balance (real weapons are designed to give an unfair advantage) only causes people, such as yourself, to become angry because the games aren't realistic enough and takes away time from important things, such as immersion and gameplay.

On the other hand, making stuff up makes games much easier to balance and continuity justification is much easier than trying to balance it just right so that nobody gets pissed (and leads to that immersion goal as well).

As for calling things the wrong names, that's getting better. In higher-end games, someone will usually shout out "changing mags" or sumesuch while reloading. Though, if the attention is on realism, that's still a detail that's missed far too often.
 

The Wykydtron

"Emotions are very important!"
Sep 23, 2010
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The only specific thing i get annoyed at is that there're no straps holding your weapons in place on your back in Dragonage (and other RPGs just using that as an example) it just sticks out to me... Y'know gravity being defied and all

Also one extremely specific book related thing, if someone uses "she was feeling melancholy" instead of "she was feeling melancholic" i don't give a damn which is more gramaticaly correct if it's not "melancholic" i'll rage
 

Laser Priest

A Magpie Among Crows
Mar 24, 2011
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I don't know. Maybe because they think only incredibly anal people will care and the vast majority of people buying this game won't complain about it.
 

Judgement101

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This reminds me of a scene from Game Dogs where the one guy was in the jungle saying "I'll shoot them with my m16" and he was clearly holding a mp5 and a message popped up saying "We know, and you are the only one who cares". I think that adiquitly describes your situation here.
 

mjc0961

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Nov 30, 2009
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While I agree that they could just do a tiny bit of research and properly label magazines and clips, I also think it's funny that people would point out something like that as ruining the realism of games that aren't realistic anyway. I mean, I've never been shot, but I'm pretty sure that taking half a mag of rounds from an enemy isn't healed by hiding behind something for a few seconds. I've never fired or reloaded a gun, but I'm pretty sure that when you fire 6 rounds out of a 12 round magazine and then reload, you don't just magically have 6 more bullets in your gun while only having 6 bullets removed from your overall stockpile. I've never thrown a grenade, but I've been told that they're actually rather heavy and you can't throw them very far if you throw them like they always do in games.

I mean really, all the unrealistic things in shooters these days, and the thing that takes people out of the game the most is someone referring to a magazine as a clip? Come on guys, games aren't that realistic anyway. Just try to forget about the mag/clip thing and have some fun.
 

RollForInitiative

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Mar 10, 2009
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Some just don't know better. Some that do know better aren't in a position to do anything about it.

That's just how it goes.