Why do people enlist?

[Alon Doron]

I'm an Israeli pre-draft teenager.
As I expect you to know, we all *have* to serve in the army (of course with exceptions (girls usually aren't sent to the front-lines, and ultra-orthodox Jews, well... Aren't yet integrated)).

Anyway, to the discussion at hand.
A few years ago I thought of the army service as a waste of time, something that will hold me back from learning the trade I wanted, or just to have a normal life as you may call it. Then I got older (funny saying that as a 18-year-old), and I just wanted to try and make the most of it. Hell, I even trained. That doesn't mean I like what I have to do... but still, it's the way of life here.

I've always wondered why people in other countries enlist. Why would they? It isn't mandatory, nor it is directly protecting your loved ones (you aren't guarding a border 20 miles from home, just saying).

So, to the question: Why do people enlist? (where it is non-mandatory)
(I meant no offence or insult, just trying to figure out a state of mind that isn't familiar to me)

P.S. If I made any grammar or spelling mistakes, sorry. English isn't my first language...

 

[Quaxar]

Well, I understand that in the US for example enlisting comes with a few goodies on the side. Then there's also the people who like weapons, seek adventure or prefer the clear working structure.

Isn't there any option for you to do substitute social work or something?

 

[TheIronRuler]

I'm an Israeli pre-draft teenager.
As I expect you to know, we all *have* to serve in the army (of course with exceptions (girls usually aren't sent to the front-lines, and ultra-orthodox Jews, well... Aren't yet integrated)).

Anyway, to the discussion at hand.
A few years ago I thought of the army service as a waste of time, something that will hold me back from learning the trade I wanted, or just to have a normal life as you may call it. Then I got older (funny saying that as a 18-year-old), and I just wanted to try and make the most of it. Hell, I even trained. That doesn't mean I like what I have to do... but still, it's the way of life here.

I've always wondered why people in other countries enlist. Why would they? It isn't mandatory, nor it is directly protecting your loved ones (you aren't guarding a border 20 miles from home, just saying).

So, to the question: Why do people enlist? (where it is non-mandatory)
(I meant no offence or insult, just trying to figure out a state of mind that isn't familiar to me)

P.S. If I made any grammar or spelling mistakes, sorry. English isn't my first language...

Hey dude! I'm doing the same thing! My physical is 82 so I can still do full combat , but I'm still waiting on intelligence corps route response.

 

[Alon Doron]

Same. Intel doesn't want me for some unknown reason. Navy instead I suppose.

 

[Soviet Steve]

Unlikely to get fired, social experience, some places have extra goodies and in the European armies it is unlikely that you will have to actually risk your life, so there isn't much deterrent there. There's also the prestige thing of being a soldier in some places or perhaps nationalism.

Personally I got out of being drafted on account of aspergers syndrome and I was pleased with it.

 

[Luca72]

In the US you get pretty decent money for college as well as a chance to get in shape and learn some useful skills. I'm on and off about joining, might just do it for the chance to see another country (and because I'm pretty sure by the time I get my degree it'll be useless ). What I've noticed is there are very few who join up because they think they're protecting their country or loved ones - I think most of us in the US between 15 and 30 understand that the military has it's own agenda and isn't as worried about protecting anyone as it is about maintaining corporate interests overseas.

I have a few buddies who are in the military or have already finished their service, and they said that you have to eat a lot of shit while you're in, but that it was a pretty significant experience that made them better people.

 

[Alon Doron]

Well, I understand that in the US for example enlisting comes with a few goodies on the side. Then there's also the people who like weapons, seek adventure or prefer the clear working structure.

Isn't there any option for you to do substitute social work or something?

Well, not really. I'm fit for combat (the army does something called "combat profiling"). I have no real reason, as far as the army's concerned, to exchange my service, nor do I want to do so. Why escape something that's a big part of my society, anyway?

 

[Total LOLige]

You can learn new things in the army, self defense, driving vehicles(Car is most practical).

 

[Alon Doron]

In the US you get pretty decent money for college as well as a chance to get in shape and learn some useful skills. I'm on and off about joining, might just do it for the chance to see another country (and because I'm pretty sure by the time I get my degree it'll be useless ). What I've noticed is there are very few who join up because they think they're protecting their country or loved ones - I think most of us in the US between 15 and 30 understand that the military has it's own agenda and isn't as worried about protecting anyone as it is about maintaining corporate interests overseas.

I have a few buddies who are in the military or have already finished their service, and they said that you have to eat a lot of shit while you're in, but that it was a pretty significant experience that made them better people.

So, what you're actually saying is the decision to enlist is usually because of financial reasons?

 

[bobmus]

Some people I know have done it for college sponsorship, and one guy joined straight up because (as far as I could tell) he just wanted to shoot people.
I'm glad some people do though, otherwise it'd probably be mandatory. And I have no wish to get shot at, or live under the full command of other people. I did CCF at school and that was enough of a taste for me to decide it wasn't for me.

 

[Luca72]

Alon, from the people I've talked to about it that's what I gather. Note that they all would fall into the category of generally middle class college students, so it probably doesn't represent the full spectrum of reasons.

I've got a question for you though - do you think having a mandatory required enlistment is a good or bad idea? Because I've done some thinking, and it seems to me that countries with short mandatory enlistment produce citizens that are a lot more self-motivated, confident, and generally skillful. Right now in the US there's a big problem with young men going to college for degrees they don't know how to use, with little to no sense of direction and zero job skills. It's disheartening to watch, and it seems to me like some military service could remedy that. Just food for thought.

 

[Quaxar]

Well, I understand that in the US for example enlisting comes with a few goodies on the side. Then there's also the people who like weapons, seek adventure or prefer the clear working structure.

Isn't there any option for you to do substitute social work or something?

Well, not really. I'm fit for combat (the army does something called "combat profiling"). I have no real reason, as far as the army's concerned, to exchange my service, nor do I want to do so. Why escape something that's a big part of my society, anyway?

Here, if you're deemed fit to serve, we have the choice of going with it for six months or rather doing something in a caring professions for nine months instead. So I was wondering if Israel had the same system or if there was only one way.


Captcha: be my friend ... that's sweet

 

[Alon Doron]

Well, I understand that in the US for example enlisting comes with a few goodies on the side. Then there's also the people who like weapons, seek adventure or prefer the clear working structure.

Isn't there any option for you to do substitute social work or something?

Well, not really. I'm fit for combat (the army does something called "combat profiling"). I have no real reason, as far as the army's concerned, to exchange my service, nor do I want to do so. Why escape something that's a big part of my society, anyway?

Here, if you're deemed fit to serve, we have the choice of going with it for six months or rather doing something in a caring professions for nine months instead. So I was wondering if Israel had the same system or if there was only one way.


Captcha: be my friend ... that's sweet

"Caring professions"? What does that mean?

 

[Luca72]

I've got a question for you though - do you think having a mandatory required enlistment is a good or bad idea

No, to me it is tantamount to slavery.

What I'm getting at is that it's something accepted as a social duty in some countries, and only seems like enslavement to us because we've never tried it. We're happy to pay taxes for things we don't support and send our kids to a broken public school system just because that's how it's been done since before we were born. Maybe military service isn't such a bad idea as long as mandatory positions aren't deployed into combat zones.

If mandatory service meant you only had to serve for two years, and you would be trained in combat and other general skills, AND you were put into a defense role where you remain in the US and serve a National Guard type role, what would be so bad about that? We're spread so thin these days into other countries that a planned invasion could do some significant damage - this way you would have a stable, constantly rotating guard force.

On a personal level, I did ROTC at a military high school, and I feel like that was certainly the most important thing I did as a teenager. It got me in shape and taught me some skills like basic first aid, which I probably wouldn't have bothered to learn otherwise.

 

[Alon Doron]

Alon, from the people I've talked to about it that's what I gather. Note that they all would fall into the category of generally middle class college students, so it probably doesn't represent the full spectrum of reasons.

I've got a question for you though - do you think having a mandatory required enlistment is a good or bad idea? Because I've done some thinking, and it seems to me that countries with short mandatory enlistment produce citizens that are a lot more self-motivated, confident, and generally skillful. Right now in the US there's a big problem with young men going to college for degrees they don't know how to use, with little to no sense of direction and zero job skills. It's disheartening to watch, and it seems to me like some military service could remedy that. Just food for thought.

Look, I'm just before my service, so I'm probably thinking differently than what I'd think at the end of my service.

First of all, if the U.S. had the same mandatory service like we have here, you'd have a HUGE army, and a lot more people handling the bureaucracy.
Sure, the army seems to 'produce' citizens that are more skillful etc.

It also produces corpses.

It's a fast lane to growing up, with all the good and the bad (and the extreme bad). My country aspires to be like yours in that manner - not having the need to enlist, not having wars near your home... The army service is a part of a much greater culture, and it has shaped it. It's something that unites the people, obviously.

It's a matter of culture. It all starts at home, at what values your brought up with. With my culture, it might work. With yours? I'm not so sure. What I mean is that there's no immediate threat to the existence of your country - that is forcing you to enlist. It will just cause anger at the government.

There are no magic, quick solutions. An army service, in my opinion, will not remedy your problem, but will most likely cause more. Besides, you have no real reason to have such mandatory service. You have a big, sophisticated army without any drafts.

 

[Arsen]

Here are the reasons I went in:

1. I had no idea what I wanted to do, which direction to take, or otherwise in regards to life.
2. It provided me a way out of the state I was living in.
3. Payed for college.

A distant fourth, would be the "travel" one...despite having to know someone in the assignments office in order to get to Germany, Italy, England, etc...

All in all, there are multiple reasons.

 

[Alon Doron]

I've got a question for you though - do you think having a mandatory required enlistment is a good or bad idea

No, to me it is tantamount to slavery.

What I'm getting at is that it's something accepted as a social duty in some countries, and only seems like enslavement to us because we've never tried it. We're happy to pay taxes for things we don't support and send our kids to a broken public school system just because that's how it's been done since before we were born. Maybe military service isn't such a bad idea as long as mandatory positions aren't deployed into combat zones.

If mandatory service meant you only had to serve for two years, and you would be trained in combat and other general skills, AND you were put into a defense role where you remain in the US and serve a National Guard type role, what would be so bad about that? We're spread so thin these days into other countries that a planned invasion could do some significant damage - this way you would have a stable, constantly rotating guard force.

On a personal level, I did ROTC at a military high school, and I feel like that was certainly the most important thing I did as a teenager. It got me in shape and taught me some skills like basic first aid, which I probably wouldn't have bothered to learn otherwise.

You're missing the big picture. What you say is a 'buttered', easy mandatory service. Here it's at least 3 years long, with long periods away from home for combat soldiers, and with a high chance you'll be called to serve again at any time after your service as a reservoir soldier.
I believe there are less dangerous and more flexible alternatives. I think it all starts with education.

 

[Alon Doron]

Here are the reasons I went in:

1. I had no idea what I wanted to do, which direction to take, or otherwise in regards to life.
2. It provided me a way out of the state I was living in.
3. Payed for college.

A distant fourth, would be the "travel" one...despite having to know someone in the assignments office in order to get to Germany, Italy, England, etc...

All in all, there are multiple reasons.

What was your profession?