Why do people hate App Store games?

[Strain42]

I'm hoping that this will be a civil discussion, so fingers crossed there.

Lemme say up front that I'm a gamer myself. I've had a SNES as long as I can remember, I've got all three of the big consoles for this generation, I've got Saints Row the Third pre-ordered and I'm even playing my PSP back and forth between typing this.

But It's a legitimate query of mine. Why do people seem to hate App Store games? I've seen a lot of "They're destroying real gaming" and "They're ruining it" but I'm not quite sure why that is.

I mean yeah, every now and then a bigger company that doesn't usually do this sort of project will decide to make an iOS game like Level 5 making Layton Brothers: Mystery Room, Capcom making MaXplosion or even Disney making Where's my Water. But on top of those, Level 5 is still making a lot of games (they've got like four or five coming out for the 3DS) Capcom is still making Resident Evil, Devil May Cry and fighting games (though I am still kinda mad about AAI2 not being localized...) and Disney is still making...crappy video games based on their intellectual properties. And since game companies are companies, they're more than likely separate teams behind them anyway.

So how are iOS games somehow destroying gaming or ruining it? It's not like a game like Aralon had any effect on Skyrim. Modern Combat 3 isn't going to dampen the multi-player experience of all those folks looking forward to Call of Duty.

Also a lot of popular games sometimes end up on the App Store, giving them a wider range for people to play them.

So to those who hate App Store games...why? Is Cut the Rope really doing all that much to hurt the AAA industry of gaming? These games just help open up a new market and attract a lot of new people into the hobby (though to some people I may have just answered my own question there)

And those who don't have anything against iOS games...feel free to share your theories.

If you do hate App Store games, I'm not trying to bash you. You're more than entitled to your opinion. I'm just trying to understand the thought process behind it is all.

 

[NinjaDeathSlap]

Personally, I'm not that into handheld and casual gaming, but I recognise they they are good at what they do. TBH, I think a lot of the hate the games get is actually rooted in hate of Apple as a company and Apple products, not the games themselves.

 

[Valagetti]

It kills other casual game devlopers.
Devlopers tend to start out with small things, like... casual games. Then they build up...
Then they have to compete with Apple, Popcap etc and they can't keep up and they go bankrupt.

Also App games, are pretty INNOVATIVE, ask Yahtzee.

 

[DEAD34345]

I don't think I've ever actually seen anyone claim that App Store games are ruining "real" games, but I have seen many people complain about people claiming that App Store games are ruining "real" games. It's strange...

Anyway, I'd guess they don't like it because many, many of the games on there are identical rip-off clones of other games, shovelware, or just crap. That's the only semi-legitimate reason I can think of, anyway.

 

[Palademon]

I complain because they're used very casually because of the popularity of everyone doing it on their new phones, and they're making more money than games aimed at core gamers.

And no, it won't hurt the AAA of course, because they're already rolling in money, but these mobile things kinda encourage "What's the point? I'd make more money if I tried to make a game as simple as possible and sell it on the casualist market possible."

 

[AstylahAthrys]

Those games are on a different level for me, I guess. I play them when I need to kill a small amount of time or when I'm on the road and just have my phone handy. I love Plants vs Zombies, Bejeweled, Angry Birds and Peggle, but they're not games I can sit down for 3 hours and play them non-stop.

 

[AndrewF022]

What? people hate App Store games? I love them, being able to play high quality games on my phone is something I've wanted ever since playing Snake II back on my first mobile phone.

I guess its like others have already said in that people hate Apple products so much that the hatred seeps over into the games on the system as well. Not that I have a problem with Apple either, they make a good product (I have only ever owned one though).

 

[IamLEAM1983]

I think it just boils down to the usual and fairly asinine "Core VS Casual" debate. Before the advent of casual gaming, a lot of folks either stuck to AAA titles or read or headed outside or whatever. Casual gaming's pretty much made it possible for us to actually pick up something and get to playing within all of thirty seconds - and to feel like that experience is meaningful. Some ridiculously alarmist people are assuming that because Angry Birds caught on, for instance, we'll *all* want to spend hours shooting stunted avians skywards with Wile E. Coyote slingshots.

App Stores are great for what they do, but they get a bad rep because a lot of core gamers are being really quick with their Panic Button. They're looking at stuff like Infinity Blade and seeing some sort of grim future where everyone and their mother owns an iPad and where nobody's around to play "Call of the Battlefield Duty 21" because it's moved to iffy touchscreen controls.

It's really a case of people fearing what they can't understand. The people who do bother with terms like "casual" or "pro" are typically far too defensive from the get-go and will fail to realize that ultimately, a game is a game is a game. It doesn't matter if you're playing it on a bleeding-edge PC or on a smartphone - it's still a game. If it was made by passionate people with a clear goal, it's going to be worthwhile, regardless of its size.

 

[IamLEAM1983]

They dumb down game culture and make us look bad to other forms of media.

Really? Did you notice the mobile ports for Myst or Riven on the iOS? These were crown jewels for the PC gamers of yesteryear. Don't forget that. If you're assuming that "Cut the Rope" is dumb, you're falling into the same trap of generalizing statements that give us crap like "FPSes are for twitch-fest obsessed morons" or "MMOs are addiction vectors with no story value".

 

[IamLEAM1983]

Oh, I don't personally condone stuff like Farmville, but you can't deny the fact that the full suite of Zynga money pits still do qualify as games. People play them, people are fish enough to sink money into micro-transactions to better crops or mobs that don't exist - but they do indeed play them. Because they're games.

You can't create a clear divide between products "à la Zynga" to coin a phrase and ports like Myst or Riven, because both are games and both are part of the offerings available to mobile phone and/or handheld-possessing consumers.

Your statement, Eric, gives the impression that everything on the App Store is absolute junk on par with Farmville. I own Angry Birds myself and have never felt the need to dip a single toe in the micro-transaction market. Don't forget; it was released as a standalone set of levels, with no pay-to-skip gimmicks, expansions or other purchasable perks. That came later.

Which reminds me of a certain game involving a big Russian dude, a Black Scottish cyclops, a German medical practitioner and a Franco-Italian intelligence agent. Oh, and lots of hats. And an online store.

Which is a game I'm sure you wouldn't consider to be casual or to stand on the same footing as Angry Birds or Farmville. Right?

 

[Strain42]

I know some gamers are elistist who consider games like Farmville to be a blight on the gaming community.

As an outsider to all three of these titles, I honestly see no difference at all between people who spend hours online playing WoW, COD or Farmville for the purposes of fun. The way I see it they're all doing the same thing. Playing a game through the internet in a semi-social situation for the purposes of recreation and enjoyment.

Angry Birds, even as an avid fan of the game and owner of all three titles, I understand where the animosity for that particular series comes from. It's insanely popular, and the merchandise and advertising for it does sometimes seem to be a bit out of hand. They're even doing an animated film that they themselves have said they're trying to trump Pixar with (still makes me laugh)

I understand that it's hard to judge the entire console as a whole, and there will always be exceptions here and there.

Like I said, the point of this topic is to just hear some of the theories and thoughts of others. I'm not trying to convince anyone to change their outlook (though if this thread does manage to open some eyes, I'd consider it a plus)

 

[TheDooD]

besides most app store games are knock offs of other popular titles and or flash games...

 

[ElPatron]

Problem with App Store?



About 60% of those games are games I usually play for free on my computer. They are only a way to detract the user from a device's main functionalities to make it seem more versatile.

Not even Steve Jobs liked those games, apparently.



Other that than I could care less.

Sandbox games used to be called GTA clones

Let's be honest, before sandbox games were so differentiated, even inFamous would be considered a GTA clone.

 

[Strain42]

besides most app store games are knock offs of other popular titles and or flash games...

Granted (like Robo5 clearly took its gameplay from Catherine)

But can't you really say that about almost all games, not just app store ones? The fact that FPS games used to be called Doom Clones and Sandbox games used to be called GTA clones shows that. Almost the entire evolution of gaming has come from taking and adjusting facets of what came before it. And like the mighty buffalo, the strongest come out on top, strengthen the group as a whole, and nature continues.

...I think I lost myself somewhere in that simile.

 

[Something Amyss]

When companies see how much money they can make off those games, they likely will turn more focus to them. That's the problem: Game companies are driven by profit, and the level of profit on these games is general obscene. Why spend millions on development of a game for smaller returns when you could make more on a shoestring budget?

 

[Strain42]

When companies see how much money they can make off those games, they likely will turn more focus to them. That's the problem: Game companies are driven by profit, and the level of profit on these games is general obscene. Why spend millions on development of a game for smaller returns when you could make more on a shoestring budget?

Has that actually happened though? Has any major triple A developing company stopped and gone "Wait, we can make more money on the app store" and just dropped ship for casual games? Like I pointed out, I know some bigger companies have developed a smaller game here and there, but has anyone actually done it yet? (legitimate question btw. If anyone has, I'd like to hear about it)

I suppose to some there's the paranoia that it COULD happen, and within 5 years someone like Valve or Bethesda could abandon them for these games...but do people actually live in that fear?

Maybe I'm just an optimist, but if people think that's where gaming is headed, it doesn't seem any different than the people who think we're all gonna die next Christmas or the people who thought we were gonna get raptured earlier this year...twice...

iOS games have become a great platform for smaller companies. Big companies can make the occasional game to help attract people to their work, and it really doesn't seem like Burn the City or Jetpack Joyride are going to stop the big developers from staying on course with what they're already doing.

 

[TheDooD]

besides most app store games are knock offs of other popular titles and or flash games...

Granted (like Robo5 clearly took its gameplay from Catherine)

But can't you really say that about almost all games, not just app store ones? The fact that FPS games used to be called Doom Clones and Sandbox games used to be called GTA clones shows that. Almost the entire evolution of gaming has come from taking and adjusting facets of what came before it. And like the mighty buffalo, the strongest come out on top, strengthen the group as a whole, and nature continues.

...I think I lost myself somewhere in that simile.

It's just the app store games get away way more with sometimes blatant ripping off of games. Basically cut & paste the original; then replace music and some objects. Then most of the knockoffs really don't even try to stand out its more like they know they made a shit game but maybe somebody will buy it and sadly it happens. With consoles / PC you can say there's 2-4 or so games knocking on the copyright door. Yet with the apps it can go into the 10+....

 

[Strain42]

besides most app store games are knock offs of other popular titles and or flash games...

Granted (like Robo5 clearly took its gameplay from Catherine)

But can't you really say that about almost all games, not just app store ones? The fact that FPS games used to be called Doom Clones and Sandbox games used to be called GTA clones shows that. Almost the entire evolution of gaming has come from taking and adjusting facets of what came before it. And like the mighty buffalo, the strongest come out on top, strengthen the group as a whole, and nature continues.

...I think I lost myself somewhere in that simile.

It's just the app store games get away way more with sometimes blatant ripping off of games. Basically cut & paste the original; then replace music and some objects. Then most of the knockoffs really don't even try to stand out its more like they know they made a shit game but maybe somebody will buy it and sadly it happens.

Not trying to disagree with you, but do you mind if I ask for some examples of this happening? I have a lot of games on my iPod, and yes, a lot of them do have very similar gameplay, but I haven't really played any that are essentially flatout copy/pastes of originals

Of course I'll admit a game like Modern Combat 3 is obviously an example of what you're talking about. FPS action that focuses heavily on multi-player and even has a similar title...yeah.

So I admit it happens, but it doesn't really seem like the majority.

 

[TheDooD]

besides most app store games are knock offs of other popular titles and or flash games...

Granted (like Robo5 clearly took its gameplay from Catherine)

But can't you really say that about almost all games, not just app store ones? The fact that FPS games used to be called Doom Clones and Sandbox games used to be called GTA clones shows that. Almost the entire evolution of gaming has come from taking and adjusting facets of what came before it. And like the mighty buffalo, the strongest come out on top, strengthen the group as a whole, and nature continues.

...I think I lost myself somewhere in that simile.

It's just the app store games get away way more with sometimes blatant ripping off of games. Basically cut & paste the original; then replace music and some objects. Then most of the knockoffs really don't even try to stand out its more like they know they made a shit game but maybe somebody will buy it and sadly it happens.

Not trying to disagree with you, but do you mind if I ask for some examples of this happening? I have a lot of games on my iPod, and yes, a lot of them do have very similar gameplay, but I haven't really played any that are essentially flatout copy/pastes of originals

Of course I'll admit a game like Modern Combat 3 is obviously an example of what you're talking about. FPS action that focuses heavily on multi-player and even has a similar title...yeah.

So I admit it happens, but it doesn't really seem like the majority.

The first time I saw it is when bejeweled started to get hype. Then there's Tetris which imo has been knocked off the most since it was made. Bubble Bobble and Bust-a-Move as well off the top of my head.

 

[Strain42]

besides most app store games are knock offs of other popular titles and or flash games...

Granted (like Robo5 clearly took its gameplay from Catherine)

But can't you really say that about almost all games, not just app store ones? The fact that FPS games used to be called Doom Clones and Sandbox games used to be called GTA clones shows that. Almost the entire evolution of gaming has come from taking and adjusting facets of what came before it. And like the mighty buffalo, the strongest come out on top, strengthen the group as a whole, and nature continues.

...I think I lost myself somewhere in that simile.

It's just the app store games get away way more with sometimes blatant ripping off of games. Basically cut & paste the original; then replace music and some objects. Then most of the knockoffs really don't even try to stand out its more like they know they made a shit game but maybe somebody will buy it and sadly it happens.

Not trying to disagree with you, but do you mind if I ask for some examples of this happening? I have a lot of games on my iPod, and yes, a lot of them do have very similar gameplay, but I haven't really played any that are essentially flatout copy/pastes of originals

Of course I'll admit a game like Modern Combat 3 is obviously an example of what you're talking about. FPS action that focuses heavily on multi-player and even has a similar title...yeah.

So I admit it happens, but it doesn't really seem like the majority.

The first time I saw it is when bejeweled started to get hype. Then there's Tetris which imo has been knocked off the most since it was made. Bubble Bobble and Bust-a-Move as well off the top of my head.

Oh yeah, good point. I forgot about all the Bejeweled inspired games out there. Yeah, those are really popular. I don't play many of them, but on rare occasions someone will make a Bejeweled inspired game with a more unique aspect of gameplay. I'm hoping those are the ones that move forward.