Why do people hate free 2 play??

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MysticSlayer

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Fonejackerjon said:
ITS GOOD BUSINESS why do so many gamers resist it?
You just answered your question here. It is a good business model: One that developers and publishers are seriously considering for their games now. Do you want to know why it is a business model that works and is highly appealing to publishers right now? Because, in the end, you are likely to spend more money on the game than the one you bought for $60 and then followed it up for 2-3 $5-15 DLC packs.

Here's the way that a F2P business model works:

Everyone can get into the game without having to pay anything. In other words, there is absolutely no risk involved on the part of the consumer, so there is very little reason for them to ignore the game unless they have a terrible Internet that won't allow them to download it. From this, you are likely to get more players than you would from charging for the game upfront and/or taking a more subscription based route, as the other two options require a risk on the part of the consumer, which will make many consumers unsure about the product decide to back off from it.

Once in the game, though, then the developers are sure to put in incentives to spend money. There are many that won't force you to buy something, but as you've already noted, the alternative is a massive grind to collect enough in order to get whatever you want without spending real cash. The problem is, most people hate the extensive grinding necessary to pull off keeping the game completely free. As a result, they're more likely to spend the money to unlock whatever areas, costumes, characters, etc. that they want. You can imagine that, over time, they are likely going to spend more money on this one game, as they keep buying more and more for the game, including the expansions and microtransactions present in the game. Though the initial entry was free, the long-term investment is going to be much greater, potentially getting to hundreds of dollars depending on how much the person is willing to spend their money on. When you combine this potential for each person to spend more and the fact that more people are going to spend, then you have a very successful business model, which you've already recognized is the case with F2P.

However, here comes the problem. For starters, I'm spending more money on the game than if I got a $60, and the quality of the game is likely not that much greater. Second, it requires them to make the game in such a way that I'm basically forced to choose between monotonous grinding and giving the publisher money. I don't mind grinding to an extent, but for the F2P business model to work, then the publishers must make the grinding overbearing enough that the average person, especially one who has a life outside of gaming, won't want to do it. In other words, though I have the option, I am basically being forced to spend more money on the game than I would otherwise if I want to see all that game has to offer. So the end result is that I spend more money on the game I could have gotten for only $60.

In reality, F2P is a model that looks good on paper, but it really hurts the consumer in the end. You think you are getting a game for free and that you spend less, but chances are, you are going to be spending much more. If that wasn't the case, then the developers would have stuck to the current business model rather than pursuing an obviously flawed one.
 

The_Echo

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Mar 18, 2009
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I love Free to Play.

But I HATE Buy to Win, which often wears the mask of Free to Play.
 

SecondPrize

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In my case it's because, with the exception of Path of Exile, every free to play game I've tried has been awful.
 

Aesir23

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A lot of people associate F2P with "pay to win" or with a bad community. Personally, I really think it depends on the game. I haven't played many that were obviously pay-to-win and I could still do pretty well based on what I got in the game itself. Except for certain aspects in various games, the community was no worse than any P2P game I'd been in. Actually, one of the games with the best community I've ever found was an F2P game.

There's only one I've found that was just unabashedly pay-to-win and that was the Age of Wushu. If you wanted anything beyond basic items you either had to buy it at the store (which were only temporary) or spend hours at a stall waiting for people to buy crafted items from you. You also had to pay to "unlock potential" and get standard xp gain as well.

As I said, it really does depend on the game because, just as I've found good F2P games, I've found P2P games that I wouldn't touch with a 10 foot pole.... again.
 

V8 Ninja

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Fonejackerjon said:
Jimquisition has said for a long time the $60 business model isnt working, so why are so many gamers intent on keeping it the way it is and sleep walking the industry into another crash? I really dont get it.
This is where I really have to question the extremity of your stance. There are a lot of asterisks attached to Jim Sterling's statements about $60 games not working. And thinking that another crash could happen is just stupid, especially considering that the "Big 3" are not only competing against themselves but also competing (to a lesser extent) with the mobile game markets/PC digital distribution services.

Sure free to play can get abused by despicable publishers *cough* Square *cough* but it is the future and we should embrace it! games are not worth $60. Period. No ifs no buts.
Alright, you're definitely an extremist on the subject. Let me do my best to argue for the $60 game market;

No, you shouldn't go spending $60 each week getting a brand new game. No, not every game is worth $60. Yes, some games have worked fantastically well with Free to Play models. (Blacklight Retribution is undoubtedly awesome.)

HOWEVER, an upfront $60 allows devs and players to do what they want without restrictions. From a developer standpoint, the studio is allowed to refine mechanics/presentation without worrying about post-release profitability. From a player's perspective, the user can enjoy content at their own pace without waiting/playing a game of psychological warfare. Saying that an avenue leading to more freedom should be demolished in favor of a more accessible but ultimately restricting road is just illogical on many levels.
 

Keiichi Morisato

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Nov 25, 2012
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Fonejackerjon said:
Im sorry I just dont get it. Would you rather spend $60 on a game outright hope and pray you like it then $15 on DLC.OR would you rather have the game free then only pay if you enjoying it or YOU think its worth it.

Im sorry but I have yet to see a F2P game that FORCES you to buy something to progress, You may have to wait hours or may have to grind but so what? the thing is free.

Jimquisition has said for a long time the $60 business model isnt working, so why are so many gamers intent on keeping it the way it is and sleep walking the industry into another crash? I really dont get it.

Sure free to play can get abused by despicable publishers *cough* Square *cough* but it is the future and we should embrace it! games are not worth $60. Period. No ifs no buts. Killer instinct and Blacklight show how its done. Pay a little bit see if you like and pay some more if you want to carry on or get new characters ITS GOOD BUSINESS why do so many gamers resist it? honestly it really annoys me. Imagine if you could buy the single player and multiplayer separately, how good would that be?

Free to play is good if done right and without it the industry will not have a future!

Can you can honestly say you are happy with the rip off $60 price model as it is now or would you rather a future where you have the choice what parts of the game you want?
S-E doesn't have a single F2P MMORPG, Nexon is what i think you are thinking of... S-E only made All The Bravest.
 

Trippy Turtle

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May 10, 2010
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I don't mind free to play at all but there is nothing wrong with paying $60 for a game. If you don't think its worth it you may be in the wrong hobby.
i have to pay as much as $100 for a new game over here and I still think its worth it for some games. F2P games just don't get the budget Triple A games do either. I know budget isn't everything but it certainly helps.
Games like Halo or Dark Souls never would have made it free to play.
 

Rednog

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A lot of my gripes have already been said by other people...
But for me personally the biggest gripe about free to play is that it turns a lot of things into a grind fest. While this might be great for the younger age groups who have mountains of time on their hands, this really blows for the older age groups who usually have a 8+hour job. The whole grind essentially forces you to just dump massive amounts of hours into that game and that game only to play it free. If you want to pay to use short cuts your more often than not end up just paying more. So as a person who has limited amounts of time to play games I'd rather just pay the cost of the game upfront, have all the content, and be able to play at my leisure.
 

Windcaler

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For me, it ultimately comes down to the games business model. Games like Path of exile (that rely on cosmetic items) or Blacklight retribution (that rely on massive customization that everyone can access through in game currency earned by playing the game) are business models that I like.

However there are games that are, quite literally, Pay to win and these are the games I have a major issue with. However as free to play gets better Im having a harder and harder time thinking of new games that fit the pay to win model rather then the free to play model. Yet there is stilla stigma from the time most games were pay to win and it takes time for those to die out

If you want a bunch of free to play games that are not pay to win I suggest you check out these: Everquest, Tribes: Ascend, Path of Exile, Blacklight Retribution, Star trek online, Raiderz, Neverwinter, Planetside 2, League of legends, Smite (although that game has major balance issues last time I played it), Realm of the mad god, Super monday night combat, Tera Online, Warframe, Dragon's prophet, Rift, Dungeons and Dragons online, Firefall, Ghost recon online, Airmech, and Gotham City imposters. There are probably a lot more but I those are the good ones I have played
 

Kanova

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Oct 26, 2011
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I don't like being told to buy something every single time I log in or try to do something. Star Wars is the fucking worst at this. It reminds you every couple seconds that you suck and that you should subscribe. Also, I hate pay to win. That is also pretty fucking stupid. Having to grind also kind of sucks, halving what should already be apart of it. Kill this thing, you get 200xp. Not 100 because you don't to pay a bunch to actually enjoy the damn game.
 

LaoJim

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I'll say up front that I've never played a F2P game. Partly because I can't play on-line games where I am (and I don't particularly want to) but mainly because I find the idea very uncomfortable.

At the moment when I buy a game I read reviews and forums to see what other people think of the game. Then I decide whether its a day one purchase, whether I'll wait for the price to drop to about 20 pounds, 10 pounds or 5 pounds or if its simple not worth playing. Of course sometimes I'll get it wrong and waste money on a game that is average or alternatively find that a 5 pound game was far better than I was expecting, but in any case I feel in control and I know what I've spent on it.

Then once I've bought the game I don't need to worry about what I'm spending on it. I can relax and play. Sure if it's been a tough month, but I decide I just have to have GTA V new then I might feel guilty about the money. I don't want to think about my finances while I'm trying to enjoy playing a game and I'm especially going to feel stressed if the item is needed to win.

I also go into it knowing that the company is going to want to make money off me somehow, so before I've started I'm feeling grumpy and over-analysing every design decision wonder if its done to make money from me or to make the game better.

I don't like the idea that I might have to give up the game halfway through because I find that I'm required to spend more money on it than I was planning, or I'm not having fun with the free model.

Hypothetically, as I don't play them, if it was an on-line game which I knew would be playing for a long time, I'd be much happier with a subscription model. If the company tells me upfront that I will be paying 5 pounds, or whatever, a month to play the game then I'm fine with that. I can work out if it's worth my while, sit back and play, and if the game gets boring or if the company is not adding enough content I can cancel my subscription. Once I'm subscribed the company shouldn't be bugging me for more money* or doing anything except trying to ensure that I'm enjoying myself.

*(I know they probably will these days)
 

Dominic Crossman

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Apr 15, 2013
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Bloodstain said:
"Free 2 play" is no issue at all, actually. "Pay to win" is an issue. However, sadly, they oftentimes accompany each other.
Beaten to it, but the one thing worse then this is games you pay for AND THEN have to pay to win, many mobile/tablet games are guilty of this imo.
 

infinity_turtles

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Apr 17, 2010
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I dislike F2P games on principle. Not because it's dicking players over, but because complex media are supposed to be greater then the sum of their parts, and gating off individual elements runs counter to design philosophy that keeps that in mind. Large interconnected bits of content like expansions are fine because they can be a separate whole so to speak, and I'd argue the best expansions are usually or could be standalone. But individual elements? Not cool. CCGs are prehaps the only exception to this for me, because they make acquiring the elements of the game as much a part of the content as actual play. Odd how that works, but gating off individual elements adds to the greater whole in this instance.
 

DEALWITHIT

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May 7, 2013
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Free to play isn't the worst thing in the world. I've played a couple of cute little games on my phone that really only forced you to buy stuff if you didn't want to wait to play. The only real issue are the games that come off as pay to win that alienate people.

I still don't like the system overall though. I know it's a psychological thing, but I like having the feeling that I can just buy a game and I have everything available to me.
Though, I don't like the discussion that the micro-transactions equal a sixty dollar retail game. I rarely buy a game first-day because of how expensive they are, and they go down in price after awhile. Micro-transactions are usually cheap on their face so they never really go down in price, so the comparison between a F2P game and a retail game isn't always so apt.
 

TrevHead

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I like to pay upfront and get a game that doesn't hassle me into opening my wallet, but alas the f2p model is just the reality of the market nowadays as games race to the bottom getting ever cheaper due to so many traditional games failing to sell. It wouldn't surprise me that in 10 years time devs will be paying me to play their games which they then make back in DLC.

I don't stick to playing any one game for any length of time, I'd rather get my enjoyment out of it and move on. So I'm not a lover of all these progression systems devs use to keep ppl playing the same content over and over.

TF2 is an OK F2P game I guess, but then I did buy the Orange Box back in the day so it should had been.
 

ShinyCharizard

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Oct 24, 2012
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I hate free-to-play because it almost always ends up costing much, much more for the same amount of content compared to just buying a normal game at retail.

The prices are always a fucking rip-off as well. 5 bucks for a gun, 10 bucks for a vehicle etc. It's fucking disgraceful.
 

Syntax Error

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Sep 7, 2008
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Because while it's actually Free To Play, it's really more Pay for Power. Don't want to pay up? Then prepare for an inordinate amount of GRINDING to "enjoy" the game.
 

WendelI

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Free to play can be done right, It has been done poorly more often than not. Mostly because of poorly crafted games or games that are not popular enough for the subscription formula. League of legends is a good example of a game that is good with free to play, Rewards players that cant sit there and play all day with a "win of the day" bonus. Has a large character pool that can be purchased with little to no effort and are all quite strong (Tell me that fiora is better than master yi, come on. Im waiting...). The only real thing that you will have to grind for and that you really need are Rune pages, those things are fucking expensive and you need at least 5 of them to be competitive That is 3 more than what your start out with.

Now done wrong? hell ill tell you one, ace online. the armor you can purchase with real money is comparable and even better than some of the endgame armors that have a 1.82% drop rate from boss monsters. Have fun grinding, or pay the 30 dolars to buy the armor so you dont get one shotter by them overpowered as fuck B-Gears.
 

Berny Marcus

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May 20, 2013
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I think what my problem is with Free-to-Play games are, that they, even though there free, are bare bones in my view and we have to pay for the whole experience. I am a capitalist, people who work on games are doing it as a job to support themselves and family. And a game is a product, and the developers make these products to earn money and give us our entertainment. However the game must have a good enough content for my money's worth, and a free to play game, while free is bare bones and you still have to pay for the content in it.


That's my view.
 

GladiatorUA

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Jun 1, 2013
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F2P = P2W approach from users is beyond stupid. The unfair stigma damages good F2P games.
Sure, some F2P games are bad. Even beyond the monetization model. But there is more then enough good f2p games.
Most non-F2P games are bad and/or don't fit your taste. Is this a good reason to ignore all games?
And done confuse P2W with Pay 4 Time. Within reason xp/currency boosters are fine. Especially if users are divided by level/gear in game.