Why do people hate JRPGs?

[NortherWolf]

Used to love jrpgs, started my Videogame rpg addiction with Secret of Mana and Final Fantasy VI in the days of the SNES. Final Fantasy VII is still a game I hold dear though it hasnt' aged terribly well for me.
But I also hate jrpgs with a passion these days. Why? Stagnation, repetition, a sense of worth that really isn't there. When I was younger the charm of being railroaded in a very linear plot and playing androgynous photo models was more bearable, but now when I play an FF game, or just try to start up any jrpg I'm put off by everything; aesthetics, soundtrack, combat, plot, characters. I know there's good ones of course, but for me the jrpg genre has lost all purpose.

 

[SuperBelkar]

Okay, here is something i haven't been able to understand: what is up with no one liking JRPGs? it seems that everywhere i look on the internet, there is someone bashing this genre, including Keiji Inafune himself! Obviously every genre has a bad egg, but it seems to me that everyone thinks JRPGs are a horrible conglomeration of hitler and Mass Effect 3's ending.
in my opinion, i find them extremely underrated, for example, i would much rather play Persona 4 over say, Halo or The Elder Scrolls.So what is the reason behind all this hate? or is it just a bunch of FPS "hardcore" gamers acting as the voice of the community?

A while back I was very much a JRPG fan. I loved the action and intense feeling of it all. One day however, as I sat playing my game, I fell onto an anomaly. I had been swearing to myself for well over an hour over a specific character I hated. Upon this realization, I started to see many other things that were bugging me during game play. As time went on, I started to see that the amount of discomfort I had vastly outweighed the amount of fun I was having.

Stay with me for a moment. The points I was focusing on were problems generally with the characters. The game play experience was a lot of fun, but every time I had to deal with the characters, I felt like my intelligence was being insulted. I started to think "This can't be a normal thing." So I started popping in other titles that I played before, I slowly became mortified with my discovery. The characters had no base in reality. There is a certain give and take to how much our suspension of belief is supposed to be stretched, but this was absolutely insulting.

Almost done. The reason people don't sit right with JRPGs is that it used to be a great medium, such as old Fire Emblem games or the Earthbound series, that treated the games as something we could all enjoy. As much as I hate to say it, JRPGs seem to be interactive fan fiction these days. The fault does not go strictly to the businesses, but what they saw their crowd purchasing as well. Yes, JRPGs still have their good days, but overall the reason most people don't seem to like it is because it has been narrowed down to appeal to a specific group of people, and a specific group of people is not most people.

 

[xorinite]

Personally I hate the concept of a 'J'RPG.
I mean should we really be embracing the idea that roleplaying games should be classified on the basis of where they were produced rather than the style of game and story they are conveying?

Case here being Anachronox, it is a style of RPG which matches the standard definition of what a JRPG is, yet isn't from Japan at all, its a matter of style rather than location of origin.

Anyway that pet peeve aside, onto the question posed;

Personally, I have been disappointed with the general quality of story telling and character development in the games from square enix and their ilk in their recent work, when they used to be giants in producing really well told roleplaying games.

My example of this would be to compare the original Chrono Trigger with a modern final fantasy game. The old game here has a really compelling and interesting story, I remember the characters, their motivations, their jokes you name it. A fantastic game I played several times, there was even a selection of interesting flavor choices.

Contrast that with Final Fantasy 13, and how do they stack up. The story telling is really poor, the characters are dull, the pace and delivery is painfully slow, it just doesn't grip me at all, and worse in a visual medium everything is told to you, often in massive text logs rather than shown.

This isn't just nostalgia talking either, I played CT after I played final fantasy 8, and CT was the superior product, one of the all time greats.

If I am anything of an indicator for the mass of people who express resentment towards the latest developments from these studios then I guess it comes down to being disappointed repeatedly leading to resentment towards their products.

I mean when I can pick up a copy of Lun's 'The way' or 'three the hard way' which are both in the 'JRPG' style and put together in a game maker tool by amateurs and yet deliver a superior story to the big budget titles.. well it doesn't help the big studios out. Perhaps they just need more money to writing and less to fancy art work.

(Edited several times, one a significant overhaul.)

 

[Therumancer]

Heh, funny how people always manage to describe their own preferred style of gaming as the mature one or the hardcore one.

Personally I don't think it has anything at all to do with the actual games and everything with the players.

It's entirely possible to play a JRPG for an hour a week and slowly finish it, playing it as casually as possible.
It's entirely possible to play a shooter extremely intensively and become the best player you can be.

It's entirely possible to play JRPGs for the instant gratification of all the flashy moves they usually feature and the loot of battles won.
It's entirely possible to play shooters for the satisfaction that comes from watching slowly increasing piles of multiplayer stats representing your effectiveness.

There's no golden genre that's being played by the "grown up" gamers. Everyone has their tastes and every genre has their kiddies and their adults.

Maturity isn't in what games you play, it's in how you play them.

I disagree, there is some absolutism to this which is where the problems come from. The problem with discussions like this is that you need to focus on the generalities without allowing for every possible exception. There are for example introductory RPG games designed for casual players, and some action/shooter type games designed for very hardcore players with a steep learning curve and a lot of nuiances. This is not about the exceptions however, and the generes I chose were just "typical" examples it's an issue that goes beyond the type of game played. Your right about the genres, but not about games themselves not being hardcore or casual, as well as it having to do with how people play. Many JRPGS for example are not going to be beaten by someone playing casually in gradual doses, because the save points might be set up specifically to demand substantial time investments. Heck in many cases some of the bosses might take multiple hours to chip away (as odd as that sounds) assuming you win.

There is a trend right now among game designers to try and play to both groups. You have that whole "Hepler mode" schtick about skipping gameplay entirely that has become a point of contreversy, and also situations where games will include "hardcore" features that are optional in an attempt to cater to both sides of the equasion.

A big part of the problem is that hardcore gamers don't generally want games that anyone can beat, basically if some casual can play the game and breeze through it and enjoy the same eventual pay off in terms of story and resolution, that defeats the entire point of the game taking skill. Basically hardcore gamers want games where beating them "means something" to those that do it, including the knowlege that many other players probably tried and failed to get as far as they did. A point designers miss in making games that try and play both crowds because they are mutually contridictory points of view.

 

[ThePenguinKnight]

That's because Persona 4 is the rare occurrence of a good JRPG. If I listed every problem with the genre than I'd have to go out and pick up a few energy drinks cause I wouldn't be getting any sleep tonight. And keep in mind, I really like the genre and really wish there were more good games within it but there's just to few.

 

[TehCookie]

I can understand how they wouldn't appeal to someone, but I still have no idea how mentioning them can lead to people foaming at the mouth and insulting the genre. You can say it's the internet and it happens with everything, but JRPG bashing seems to be a lot more common and even acceptable.

 

[80Maxwell08]

Personally I hate the concept of a 'J'RPG.
I mean should we really be embracing the idea that roleplaying games should be classified on the basis of where they were produced rather than the style of game and story they are convaying?
Anachronox is a style of RPG which matches chrono trigger and final fantasy, but its not from Japan.
However, that little pet peeve aside, I guess its because there has been a huge drop off in truely great story telling from the studios who used to be the giants in this field.

What do I mean, well fire up a copy of Chrono trigger, and then fire up a copy of the latest final fantasy. Tell me which has the better and more engaging story. Bluntly the new crop of games from the likes of Square Enix and their ilk have just been massively disappointing, lacking in a decent story and vision, as if they spend all their budget on art work rather than story. I am not simply being nostagic here, I played CT way after I played final fantasy 8, yet CT is the superior title, and certainly better than anything I've seen in a long time.

So I guess people just are tired of putting their faith in those old companies and not getting something as good as they used to get, and thus resent them.

You aren't the only one with that pet peeve. That Extra Credits series they had recently was absolutely horrible with almost no research done, absolutely stupid statements and them claiming their bias as fact.

OT: I don't. The Ys series and Tales games are among my favorites though I didn't get Tales of Graces F once I saw the opening scene and someone told me it was indicative of the game's tone. I think there's plenty of good games made in Japan but many of them don't come out at all. We are lucky to have XSEED, Atlus and NIS America bringing many games over (among other companies I just know these 3).

 

[Yopaz]

Okay, here is something i haven't been able to understand: what is up with no one liking JRPGs? it seems that everywhere i look on the internet, there is someone bashing this genre, including Keiji Inafune himself! Obviously every genre has a bad egg, but it seems to me that everyone thinks JRPGs are a horrible conglomeration of hitler and Mass Effect 3's ending.
in my opinion, i find them extremely underrated, for example, i would much rather play Persona 4 over say, Halo or The Elder Scrolls.So what is the reason behind all this hate? or is it just a bunch of FPS "hardcore" gamers acting as the voice of the community?

Personally, the turn based combat is what does it for me. I can get past the hair cuts and that alot of people look like their ten and label it as cultural differences but it ends at turn based combat. I'm not playing chess or checkers, I don't like turn based combat.

Turn based combat isn't really a definition of JRPG. Tales of (series) is one of the classic JRPGs and there are only a few spin-off titles that use turn based combat. Xenoblade is a JRPG which doesn't have anything even remotely turn based about it. Pandora's Tower, The Last Story there are plenty of JRPG games without turn based combat.

 

[Griffolion]

Okay, here is something i haven't been able to understand: what is up with no one liking JRPGs? it seems that everywhere i look on the internet, there is someone bashing this genre, including Keiji Inafune himself! Obviously every genre has a bad egg, but it seems to me that everyone thinks JRPGs are a horrible conglomeration of hitler and Mass Effect 3's ending.
in my opinion, i find them extremely underrated, for example, i would much rather play Persona 4 over say, Halo or The Elder Scrolls.So what is the reason behind all this hate? or is it just a bunch of FPS "hardcore" gamers acting as the voice of the community?

It was explained really well in an extra credits episode why JRPG's have gone off the boil. You'll be best off watching that for more insight.

 

[Bertylicious]

Because people STILL think all JRPG's have spiky haired, brooding men with huge swords thanks to final fantasy 7. The hilarious part is cloud wasn't even a brooding character, people who fucking played the game know that.

They also never played a Shin Megami Tensei game. The best JRPG franchise.

I thought Cloud was pretty broody. Wasn't his surname supposed to be Strife?

Wait, wait, hang on. Am I getting confused? Does "broody" have to do with babies?

 

[Aircross]

I still adore the Dragon Quest series, seeing as they still manage to keep their simple charm when a majority of JRPGs go for overly complex flashiness over substance.

The one thing I hate the most in JRPGs though is how unsubtle and inconsistent their narrative can be.

 

[Iwata]

Alright, I will speak objectively from my own experience.

Now, I do pride myself in being a long-time gamer who can enjoy pretty much any kind of game. The one exception to this, I found out, are JRPG's.

Now, bear in mind, I don't mean all RPG's to come out of Japan (I'm a fan of Demon's/Dark Souls) or even of all JRPG's (I found myself attracted to Persona 3 FES).

But I do find that overall, JRPG's are a chore to get through. The character archetypes are boring, and seem to change very, very little from game to game. I know there's a cliché of the spikey-haired teen and his female protagonist, but what I find is that this cliché bears a lot of weight for JRPG's, and it reeks of teen angst and melodrama. Plus, I understand it's a japanese thing, but I have very little patience for the hallmarks of JRPG dramatic moments like overly-long poses, shitty dialogue and other such things that change little from one game to the next.

In gameplay terms, I find that JRPG's are driven more by grinding and random encounters than by the story, (which, again always weighs on the side of the melodrama) and the gameplay lives on repetition.

Those are only some of the reasons why I simply cannot play JRPG's. That said, an opinion is simply that.

 

[Kiardras]

I don't hate them. But I've never been able to get into the story, or character design. Its made more apparent by the "larger" and more popular JRPG's mostly.

And if I can't get into the characters, then I can't enjoy the game. Most recent example wise, FF13, I wanted to murder half the characters 10 minutes into playing it.

 

[Verzin]

Of pretty much every bloody idea, thing, activity, or philosophy out there, there are people that like and people that dislike. there are pretty much no exceptions to this.

 

[Aircross]

But I do find that overall, JRPG's are a chore to get through. The character archetypes are boring, and seem to change very, very little from game to game. I know there's a cliché of the spikey-haired teen and his female protagonist, but what I find is that this cliché bears a lot of weight for JRPG's, and it reeks of teen angst and melodrama. Plus, I understand it's a japanese thing, but I have very little patience for the hallmarks of JRPG dramatic moments like overly-long poses, shitty dialogue and other such things that change little from one game to the next.

Ah, Dragon Quest III, how much I loved thee for allowing me to make up my own characters with their own personalities...

...too bad the save battery died.

 

[Porecomesis]

Did somebody just ask why people hate JRPGs? Well, well, well! Looks like it's my time to shine [http://porecomesis.deviantart.com/journal/In-which-I-talk-about-Final-Fantasy-I-219509706]! In that linked journal, I talk about the mechanical wrongdoings of JRPGs.

As for plot... well, JRPGs normally do it pretty well as it's clear in that you're a hero, there's a bad guy, kill they ass. Also, with few exceptions, JRPGs tend to be more adventurous and big. As someone mentioned before, the problem lies with archetypal characters in most cases.

Still, the biggest problem with JRPGs is from a mechanical standpoint.

 

[Palademon]

JRPGs lure me in with concept, then often bore me with everything else, by putting hours of gameplay between any story or sign of progression and/or having repetitive gameplay.

Don't hate them though. I simply accept that few of them will truly interest me.

 

[Something Amyss]

I like a lot of conventions people seem to hate in gaming.

I don't like all JRPGs, but I enjoy a good one. I've just been seeing fewer of late.

 

[Grey Day for Elcia]

Because 99% of games calling themselves JRPGs are animated movies that limit player interaction to clicking X on an attack. No player agency in the world, no affect on the story, no player made decisions in dialog, no player influence on the story, no character development beyond exactly what the developer wants--these are all things diametrically opposed to the roleplaying experience.

Final Fantasy: not an RPG.

Planescape Torment: an RPG.

 

[Something Amyss]

Because people STILL think all JRPG's have spiky haired, brooding men with huge swords thanks to final fantasy 7. The hilarious part is cloud wasn't even a brooding character, people who fucking played the game know that.

They also never played a Shin Megami Tensei game. The best JRPG franchise.

I thought Cloud was pretty broody. Wasn't his surname supposed to be Strife?

Wait, wait, hang on. Am I getting confused? Does "broody" have to do with babies?

He was, in fact, quite broody, mopey, and poorly characterised. He and Sepiroth have personalities worthy of a Stephanie Meyers novel.

And despite that, I enjoyed the game. I've played it through three times just on my PS3 since it was released to the PSN.