Why do people hate JRPGs?

[Woodsey]

Every and any JRPG menu system I have ever seen has been aesthetically abhorrent. And shit looking menus really set my teeth on edge.

 

[GamerAddict7796]

No joke, I would gladly listen to the lack of real roleplaying. Take it away maestro...

We may not agree on this. All I ask is that you hear me out...

One reason I don't qualify most JRPGs as "proper" RPGs is because the character you're supposed to insert yourself in, so to speak, already has his or her own motivations, fighting style, personality quirks, design/fashion sense, favorite lunch, porn stash/masturbatory aid, whatever. Thus, I'm not that character; I'm simply controlling him/her to next battle, plot point, etc.

Example, let's look at my previous example: Resonance of Fate. One of the main characters is named Vashyron. He has his own past (former elite guard), personality (noble, if perverted), and default design (Caucasian, blonde hair often in a ponytail, green eyes I think, wears a brown leather jacket with white tee underneath, simple blue jeans, and Western style boots). Sure, I can pretend I'm actually him just like any other person, but the impact is greatly diminished, even more so since I have little to no control as to how the story actually plays out. It's like Yahtzee that one time, the game is based off their actions as a character versus yours as the player.

Long and short, I don't views most JRPGs as real RPGs since you have no real control over character progression; outside of special moves and maybe equipment, almost everything about that character is already set in stone by the designers. Feel me?

By the way, can anyone explain to me the point of giving a player the option of inputting a custom name when the character already has one (i.e. Link from LoZ)?

Hey, thanks. After rereading what I put I sound like a bit of a knob. But your arguments are valid and I agree, what with me not being a JRPG fan and all. Thanks for not raging at my appaling manners.

It sounded better in my head let me tell you.

 

[Kahunaburger]

Oh, and Demon's/Dark Souls aren't JRPGs. They're insanely hardcore Western RPGs that happened to have been made in Japan. I'm pretty sure it's the actual style of the game that determines what genre it is, rather than the region where it was made.

In that case, Mass Effect is a game where you go through a series of corridors controlling a preset Sheparrd and his angsty, emotionally crippled-yet incredibly sexy companions, and all illusion of choice is removed at the end when the developers take the story out of your hand and impose their own outcome on the game, removing any sense of player agency. It is therefore, by definition, a JRPG.

Incidentally, games like Mass Effect are why it cracks me up when people call Dark Souls a WRPG. Is there, like, a treasure trove of hardcore Western ARPGs that require players to master stuff like timing and enemy attack patterns that I haven't run into for some reason?

 

[Fijiman]

For me, it's not so much that I hate JRPGs so much as it is that I just don't have any interest in playing them myself. I love watching my brother play them but I would get board and quit before I got too far into an of them.

 

[deathzero021]

i'd say it comes down to a 5 main elements:
- anime art style (almost a symbol for what they already assume about it)
- generic characters (boy hero saves world from laughing maniac)
- low quality graphics / un-realistic graphics (it's a big deal nowadays with huge AAA titles)
- boring combat (turn-based or primitive action RPGs bore modern day gamers who want something more interactive)
- long cut-scenes (the average gamer isn't interested in predictable anime-based storylines that take time away from actually playing the game)

what's funny about this is these are the traits that hardcore jrpg fans love, but at the same time other gamers completely hate. it's really just another way to make a game and that haters should try being a little more open-minded and give one of these games a try. preferably not one of the more generic ones.

as a whole i think over-saturation has made all these traits undesirable to the current mainstream gamer. these traits used to be done well and used to be favored by all (Final Fantasy 7 era) but nowadays it seems it's not adapting well into modern gaming and it simply keeps doing the same things we've already seen and so only the truly hardcore jrpg fans are still supporting it. (but even that group is diminishing)

 

[Iron Lightning]

They're too damn linear usually. I just like some important, world-affecting choices in my RPGs.
Yes, I know the some WRPGs suffer from the same problem but if you want real player agency then you are about ten times more likely to find in it a WRPG than in a JRPG.

 

[Jitters Caffeine]

Is the story of Dungeons of Dredmor that engaging or innovative? What story?

Is Dungeons of Dredmor a breath of fresh air for commercial WRPGs? Yep.

Did you just call Dungeons of Dredmor a Western RPG? THE ROGUE-LIKE COMMUNITY WOULD LIKE TO HAVE A WORD WITH YOU!

It's a complicated taxonomy haha. It can be both a roguelike and an RPG, and I would be very surprised if the commercial success + roguelike mechanics don't spawn WRPG imitators at least with some of the mechanics. At any rate, that's what I have my fingers crossed for

Rogue-likes are RPGs by nature. Leveling up, finding equipment, having perks/traits or something similar. All are elements of an RPG, but Rogue-likes have that factor of "you are supposed to lose" in them. You aren't supposed to win a Rogue-like your first time, or your second time, or even your tenth time. You win by learning the game mechanics and exploiting them.

Take the DOOM Rogue-Like, one mechanic in the game is that human enemies will pick up equipment you drop and wear it. You can exploit that by dropping shitty equipment in a doorway and waiting around a corner for them.

And technically Dungeons of Dredmor DOES have a story, it's just not very prevalent or relevant.

 

[SageRuffin]

Hey, thanks. After rereading what I put I sound like a bit of a knob. But your arguments are valid and I agree, what with me not being a JRPG fan and all. Thanks for not raging at my appaling manners.

It sounded better in my head let me tell you.

Something told me there was some antagonizm in that statement. Good thing I largely chose to ignore it, eh?

I can understand the apprehension though. RPGs are so loosely defined nowadays it's a wonder how anybody knows what the hell they're talking about.

Keep in mind, the rest of you reading this, I'm not saying JRPGs are bad. I just don't like them for the reasons stated in my previous posts.

 

[z121231211]

Because many people look at the Final Fantasy series and base every JRPG off of that.

Also because this is the Escapist where not a whole lot of people like JRPGs or the anime aesthetic/cliches that fans have of the genre have gotten used to.

 

[him over there]

I freaking love JRPGs, absolutely love them. You can call them interactive movies because you don't have control of the story but that isn't stopping me from enjoying and getting immersed in them. You can talk about how you don't role play but of course you do! I played final fantasy 7 and I played the role of cloud strife. Even though the character is always the same I still feel like they are me and I am him.

The mechanics seem the same but turn based strategy is a traditional trope of the genre, and there isn't anything wrong with it.

I could go on and on...

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Edit: by the way, that picture right there is proof that a game did divulging paths far better than bioware and it is almost twenty years old.

 

[SAMAS]

- generic characters (boy hero saves world from laughing maniac)

Genericism in the protagonist is endemic to video gaming. Designers want their heroes to appeal to as large an audience as possible, so they tend to play it pretty safe. Conversely, the supporting characters tend to be a lot more interesting.

I mean, look at Mass Effect. Male!Shep's default appearance is just that, and looks like a dozen other Western protagonists. Compare him to Wrex, Tali, Garrus, and the other members of your party.

- low quality graphics / un-realistic graphics (it's a big deal nowadays with huge AAA titles)

I think this is due to a lot of Japanese companies going: "Why bother?". Really, only the big guys like Sega, Squeenix and Capcom do that, then you have Nintendo, which seems to make games with a fifth of the budget and turns a profit even when they're at the bottom of a Console War.

Alternately, this could also be a product of the fact that Japan has a far more robust animation industry than the west. Maybe their tastes simply don't have that big an emphasis on realistic-looking graphics.

- boring combat (turn-based or primitive action RPGs bore modern day gamers who want something more interactive)

- long cut-scenes (the average gamer isn't interested in predictable anime-based storylines that take time away from actually playing the game)

Xenosaga notwithstanding, do Japanese games really have cutscenes that much longer than their Western counterparts? The ones I've seen of Mass Effect certainly don't seem any shorter.

 

[1080bitgamer]

Some people may not HATE it, maybe they are just being hyperbolic, but not liking it? Maybe because besides the project rainfall games and the latest final fantasies, there haven't been many extremely good or at least interesting JRPGs to make people think otherwise?

Or maybe it's just opinion, whatever.

 

[Ryotknife]

I love jrpgs, but it certainly does not help that JRPGs are kinda....slacking this generation. course im starting to see FPS showing the same signs too lately. honestly if the trend continues i will probably move away from the genre more and more, which is a shame because my favorite stories and characters comes from jrpgs.

Of the rpgs that i played this generation:

eternal sonata - terrible (although i havent beaten it yet)
valkyrie chronicles - great
final fantasy 13 - good (great story that takes a horrendous nosedive at the end. a few annoying characters. mechanics are actually fun and difficult at the end, but painstakingly boring for the first 20-30 hours)
star ocean last hope - really terrible
last remnant - not bad. main character is terrible, but david nassua is amazing. story is kinda generic, but there is a lot of stuff to do.

 

[NiPah]

Because 99% of games calling themselves JRPGs are animated movies that limit player interaction to clicking X on an attack. No player agency in the world, no affect on the story, no player made decisions in dialog, no player influence on the story, no character development beyond exactly what the developer wants--these are all things diametrically opposed to the roleplaying experience.

Final Fantasy: not an RPG.

Planescape Torment: an RPG.

Incorrect post is incorrect, most JRPGs have diverging story lines due to character choice in dialog and or actions. These different story lines can have completely different endings (see Ar Tonelico and Agarest War), most have character development, hell they even develop characters besides the main character. No shit about what the developer wants though, do you expect them to allow players to program the game to get their own experience?

Final Fantasy 13X2 (freakin 13X2) had 10 endings which come from player choices.

Please, as a personal favor, don't be so wrong the next time you post.

 

[Infernai]

For me it's got alot to do with the characters and plots. I think we can all have a general run-down of how it plays out: Generic optimistic youth is somehow the last hope for a world/universe/kingdom/etc, and has to go on a quest to save said world/universe/kingdom/etc. Over the course of the game, he has to gather an assortment of characters usually consisting of: Female childhood friend who wants to get in his pants, serious foil/rival to main character, Spunky female who's only in the game for sex appeal, The healer, and normally one other character who is heavily linked to the main plot.
There are sometimes some differences, and naturally there are exceptions to this, but alot of it in my opinion comes from character archtypes

I honestly think if the genre actually focused more on giving us some variety among protagonists, we could have some great games from the genre. Hell, this is the main reason i loved Drakengard so much is because it turned all this on it's head: Your main character was a complete psychotic murderer who just so happened to have a grudge to settle with the big bads, meaining saving the world was VERY much a secondary motivation.

I just want them to do something different for once: Give us an older protagonist (Nier did this, and it did it very well, hence why i wanna see it again), hell give us an outright bastard for a main character. Just do SOMETHING new!

What i would LOVE to see is a main character more along the lines of trying to do what Griffith in some aspects: Mainly, an extremely charismatic and skilled leader who has to save the world and decides to do this by rising through the ranks to the top of nobility...and are prepared to do any damn thing they have to in order to reach it: The party members they gather? Just tools to get what they want (Bonus points if they literally view them only as a role eg. think of the tank as 'the one with the big sword'), so they'll smile and manipulate them so they get what they want. The side-quests? Do it to get a reputation around, that's it. After all, a hero can't get very far without a reputation now can they? Make them SEEM nice and like a proper hero at first glance, but after seeing their thoughts and opinions, you'll realize they are an utter bastard who only cares about them self. (You are allowed to take this Square Enix, i am literally GIVING you a new main character archtype to experiment with!)

So yeah: It's the characters mainly being recycled a bit to glaringly for my liking and their apprehensiveness to actually doing anything NEW with them.

 

[kortin]

I judge a game based on the game itself, not the genre (except for sports games. They are a scourge on the gaming name).

I've found there aren't a lot of jrpgs I like, however. Final Fantasy games tend to not be my forte. Especially the tactics and earlier games. I absolutely hated the tactics gameplay style, and the earlier games just were too outdated for me to have the patience with. :\

 

[gyrobot_v1legacy]

For me it's got alot to do with the characters and plots. I think we can all have a general run-down of how it plays out: Generic optimistic youth is somehow the last hope for a world/universe/kingdom/etc, and has to go on a quest to save said world/universe/kingdom/etc. Over the course of the game, he has to gather an assortment of characters usually consisting of: Female childhood friend who wants to get in his pants, serious foil/rival to main character, Spunky female who's only in the game for sex appeal, The healer, and normally one other character who is heavily linked to the main plot.
There are sometimes some differences, and naturally there are exceptions to this, but alot of it in my opinion comes from character archtypes

I honestly think if the genre actually focused more on giving us some variety among protagonists, we could have some great games from the genre. Hell, this is the main reason i loved Drakengard so much is because it turned all this on it's head: Your main character was a complete psychotic murderer who just so happened to have a grudge to settle with the big bads, meaining saving the world was VERY much a secondary motivation.

I just want them to do something different for once: Give us an older protagonist (Nier did this, and it did it very well, hence why i wanna see it again), hell give us an outright bastard for a main character. Just do SOMETHING new!

What i would LOVE to see is a main character more along the lines of trying to do what Griffith in some aspects: Mainly, an extremely charismatic and skilled leader who has to save the world and decides to do this by rising through the ranks to the top of nobility...and are prepared to do any damn thing they have to in order to reach it: The party members they gather? Just tools to get what they want (Bonus points if they literally view them only as a role eg. think of the tank as 'the one with the big sword'), so they'll smile and manipulate them so they get what they want. The side-quests? Do it to get a reputation around, that's it. After all, a hero can't get very far without a reputation now can they? Make them SEEM nice and like a proper hero at first glance, but after seeing their thoughts and opinions, you'll realize they are an utter bastard who only cares about them self. (You are allowed to take this Square Enix, i am literally GIVING you a new main character archtype to experiment with!)

So yeah: It's the characters mainly being recycled a bit to glaringly for my liking and their apprehensiveness to actually doing anything NEW with them.

Or better yet, make a Dark Fantasy Series and it will sell well in the west.

 

[Thoric485]

I don't hate them, I just don't care about them.

Bad WRPGs - now that I hate.

 

[paislyabmj]

Because not a single Jrpg exists that is as good as Skyrim. Or any other Regular RPG. If I wanted to Angst for a good few hours I could sit locked in a dark room listening to sad music covered in black sheets and jam,

ever played chrono trigger?ever played earthbound?ever played personas 3 and 4?have you ever actualy played these games.when you say that not a single JRPg exists that is as good as a regular rpg are you realy saying that: Dungeons and Dragons: Daggerdale>paper mario 1000 year door, or are you just flame baiting.

 

[Sehnsucht Engel]

I don't hate JRPGs. I dislike final fantasy, but that's mostly because they still use turn based battle system, which just feels out of date and bad.

I like Suikoden 2 & 5. Tales of Vesperia is awesome. Chrono trigger.

Anyway, I've played quite a few. I like Visual novels a lot more than JRPGs though, which I've been getting into lately.