Why do people hate the army?

[manic_depressive13]

I hate the military.

Listen here. Your government doesn't like you. In fact, chances are your government is comprised of a bunch of fucking assholes. When you join the military, you are agreeing to take orders from a bunch of assholes. You are expressing willingness to go to another country and kill people on behalf of this group of assholes, simply because you were told to. I don't find that admirable. I find it extremely disturbing that many people believe those in military positions deserve extra respect by virtue of having a diminished capacity to empathise and think for themselves.

Yes, they risk their lives, but then so do people who drive while they're drunk. You don't call them heroes, even though they achieve about as much as anyone in the army- killing some civilians.

 

[the clockmaker]

Generally I think such idiots speak from ignorance and sterotypes.

Realistically you shouldn't need a army to begin with.

You really believe that? LMAO.

Sure I mean what is your country doing that makes people hate you so much they actively want to kill you?

I mean sure I can see defense but a huge army set in place for invasion is hardly defensive.

It is a sad fact of human nature that there will always be completely incompatable policies. the most obvious example of this is the middle east in that some, by no mean all but certaintly enough of those involved in the decsion making process see the western way of life as diametrically opposed to theirs. Simple things that we see as right or moral they see as abhorrent and vice versa and so there will always be the potential for conflict and the need for a deterrant against it.

The need to have a force that can interveane in foriegn nations comes from a couple of nessesities. First, in the event of conflict, it is always better for the fighting to occur on someone elses soil in order to spare your own civilians the horrors of war, second, the goal to defend as far forward as possible, giving yourself more room to fall back and manouvere and your enemy less. Third, part of what prevents smaller wars is the knowledge that just about everybody has a lot of treaty obligations backing them up, and to enforce treaty obligations you need to able to operate in other countries. Fourth, wars cannot be won by defence, you can use defencive tactics to regain the initiative and go on the offensive, but in the end, you cannot end a war without either removing the enemies will to fight or their ability to do so, trying to simply set up a defence and let the enemy attack either leads to the folly of fixed defences or mass casualties on your part because by focusing solely on the defence youare allowing the enemy freedom of action. Fifth, one of the functions of the modern military is intervention in foreign states, eg Bosnia, Timor or various peackeeping operations in the mid east and africa. Sixth and finally (for now, there are some others but this post is getting long and I think you get my point) a deterrant only works if it a real threat and so you cannot prevent war by simply being a tough nut to crack, you need to ability to fight back as well, I mean, what is more likely to be killed by another animal, the turtle or the wolf?

 

[manic_depressive13]

Because all soldiers do is kill civilians, right?

People like this person here, really should know what the fuck they're talking about before they start talking.

OT: I admire anyone who puts their lives in danger on a day to do basis (Soldiers, Cops, etc). I'm currently in the process of joining the Army. A lot of the hate has to do with people being entirely misinformed, or people who think their own ignorant view is the only view on the matter.

Tell me what our soldiers have achieved in the middle east besides kill civilians.

 

[Soviet Heavy]

I respect soldiers greatly, since they put their lives on the line doing their job. I don't have to agree with where they are sent or what they do to respect something like that.

 

[Risingblade]

People hate authority figures yet they still expect to be protected by them. It's really just hate for the sake of hating. I can see disliking them for their actions but to judge everyone in that profession is just being a bigot.

 

[TehCookie]

Because peace and love man. If we all could just like, get along, we wouldn't need an army dude.

I'll respect the people who are willing to risk their lives to protect their country, and hate politicians for the wars.

 

[Yopaz]

I was in active duty both before and after 9/11, and I feel that a lot of people's opinions of the military are influenced by current trends, but also by a lot of misconceptions and assumptions. Especially when they don't know any military people, themselves.

I think this guy is onto something.

Personally I am against war when it can be avoided. Let's take either of the two world wars as an example here. One nation wanting to increase their financial standing expanded their territory and their wealth on the cost of nations they were able to defeat. This situation was not misinterpreted nor do I think it could have been solved without going to war. Then there's the war in Iraq which probably was necessary too, but the reasons for going to war were sketchy at best. There's also news about all the sick things some soldiers do in order to maintain the mindset they need to keep fighting. I probably shouldn't mention specifics in order to keep this civil. However to get on with my point this is what people see. They see the group of soldiers mistreating captives. They see a war they didn't want.

Soldiers don't go to war. Soldiers are sent to war. People seem to think that if we didn't have soldiers we wouldn't have wars. I am a strong opponent of war and I am a pacifist, but I still respect soldiers for the duty they are doing.

 

[Von Strimmer]

I have utmost respect for an Army/Navy/Air Force as an entity (Australian). However in saying that, I will judge the services when things like desecrating corpses or humiliating female staff is involved (read: skype sex scandal), I do think the treatment of women in the forces (especially in Australia at the moment) could be significantly improved. But even so you cant judge the entire service on the actions of a rogue few.

Finally, dont hate the army for following the orders of the government.

 

[SycoMantis91]

I think a lot of people mistake "hate" for common annoyance. I can't speak for all marines, but many I have met are the most arrogant, in-your-face assholes I've ever known. What they do is brave and honorable, but at the same time, they and their supporters, at least moreso than most causes are so loud and obnoxious about it, and so spiteful if you're not the same way, that it's hard at times for the whole thing to not just get really annoying, and I'm sure for some people that eventually boils into a form of resent or even hatred. Also, there are many times when people disapprove of a war being fought or something like that and they can't blame the government to their face so soldiers are the next best thing.

 

[manic_depressive13]

Because all soldiers do is kill civilians, right?

People like this person here, really should know what the fuck they're talking about before they start talking.

OT: I admire anyone who puts their lives in danger on a day to do basis (Soldiers, Cops, etc). I'm currently in the process of joining the Army. A lot of the hate has to do with people being entirely misinformed, or people who think their own ignorant view is the only view on the matter.

Tell me what our soldiers have achieved in the middle east besides kill civilians.

Disarming IED's in civilian populated areas. Provided Medical care. Have taken out many insurgent groups. Their main goal is to become friendly with the civilians in order to have cooperation so that they can protect them from insurgent groups.

Have their been some civilian deaths? Yes, as there as been in every war since the dawn of time. And if you think all the Army does is kill civilians, it just shows how much of a close minded idiot you are.

Their main goal is to install a government sympathetic to America so they can get cheap oil. America has been supplying Israel with warheads and creating unrest in the middle east for decades. This resulted in the 9/11 attacks which, while tragic, did not justify invading an entire country. The civilian death toll in Iraq and Afghanistan has reached over one hundred thousand caused by US and NATO activity alone.

The fact is that these people don't want us in their countries. Yes, I employed some hyperbole earlier, but while we may have done some small good, it is immensely overshadowed by the destruction our military has caused. If you think that we are actually there to help the citizens of these countries, you need a serious reality check.

Add to that the fact that 90% of women serving in the military report sexual harassment and 30% have been raped, I just don't see why anyone would volunteer to enter such an environment and propagate attitudes that the military deserves respect.

 

[Rastien]

Whilst i may not agree with where troops are being sent or the wars they fight etc etc.

I still respect the fact they have chosen to do this.

I don't read into the whole protecting my country shite, but if someones in a job that dangerous i respect them.

Just as i would hope the fact they respect me and what i do how ever irrelavant.

Tolerance swings both way people

 

[Rottweiler]

I always find it so interesting how people say 'rar they killed civilians' but when you say 'and how do you feel about the enemy, who actively hides amongst civilians and uses their deaths for propaganda purposes?' you get a whole lot of nothing.

"Well, uh...they...uh...CIVILIAN DEATHS! Most of them reported by people who have a massive bias against the military and who need every bit of propaganda they can get! But we believe them because it fits our preconceived notions!"

Having been a soldier, I maintain a great deal of respect for fellow soldiers (serving or served) and I've seen much of the ignorant hatred and contempt.

Soldiers who risk death on numerous occasions because the politicians *you* voted for told them to.

'Useless Tax sink'? How about the no-questions-asked Foreign Aid we piss away every year that basically serves to prop up dictatorships and terrorist organizations? Oh, and the UN, useless mockery of an organization that it is.

What's funny is that historically America used to more or less disarm after every conflict. We had more or less squat for a standing military before WW I. Ditto for WW II. Korea...Vietnam...

Did getting rid of the majority of the 'useless tax sinks' help in those instances? Or did we end up having to build it right back up and take massive casualties because we didn't have enough of a trained standing army when we or our allies needed one?

Truly, my epiphany about people here in America came thusly:

I was at a diner with some friends. One of them was going on at length about how having a military is useless, and how nobody needs to solve anything with violence.

Right behind her on a big-screen TV was a news report showing a large crowd of men holding AK-47's and RPG-7v launchers, with a sign (helpfully translated) saying 'DIE AMERICANS'.

Sure, we don't need a military. Tell the people with the AK-47's that. Because the place they were waving them has no US presence. We're not invading them, occupying them, or otherwise involved. Yet there they are carrying automatic weapons and rocket-propelled grenade launchers and chanting 'death to Americans'.

So, say you travel in that vicinity. You get captured at gunpoint...since there's more or less nothing you can do about it. Who rescues you? Not the military, *you* didn't want a military, remember? And those same AK-47-carriers don't have to worry about retribution, either. They can do whatever they want.

Then, they say "Hey! This country here has things we want!" How do you stop them? No military = no stopping someone who *does* have a military.

Of course, we could just let all our allies twist in the breeze, right? But if *we* don't have a military, why should *they*? I mean, the logic applies universally, right? Like, say...

...Kuwait.

Imagine that scenario without a US military.

 

[crazyarms33]

I really don't get why people miss that part. They willing gave up their autonomy to run off to do the bidding of the government. And people somehow try to separate the government from them. Well they agreed to follow their orders, so how can they really not accept blame as well? If I tell some crazy guy on the street "Oh I'll do whatever you want" people wouldn't think twice
about blaming me as much as him, if not more, if I followed his orders.

The problem here for me is that the soldiers get blamed infinitely more than the politicians. Why do the soldier's get handed the shit end of the stick for someone else's decision twice? Meaning they do the actual deed and then they get blasted for doing it, as if they just did it for the hell of it. Boggles my mind. The question ultimately boils down do you blame the hands that do the work, which by the way, they are legally obligated to do; Or do you blame the decision makers and those that tell the hands what to do. At least that's true for me.

You wouldn't blame a spoon for making you fat right? It's just the means to the end. Ultimately, the decision to eat 10 pounds of cake a day for 2 years was yours, and you have to take accountability for that. Or perhaps a different example: You're working at a big company. Your boss tells you to move money from account A to account C. You do it, because that's what he pays you to do and you're in breach of contract if you don't. Turns out, it ends up being a bad decision and account C loses the money and then some. Even though you only followed your instructions from your boss, who told you to move the money, you get blamed for it. However because you like being employed, you can't say anything, and no one ever asks you why you did it, and even if they do its company policy to not discuss business decisions with non-involved parties. So people just assume you did it because you could. Oh, and this ends up on the national news with pundits blasting you based on their "expertise" of a situation they have no idea about. Meanwhile your boss gets on TV and says, "That was bad. The company will do better", taking none of the blame off you, but also not supporting you by admitting he made a bad call. You're still left out to dry.

That's what irritates me about it. The disproportionate amount of blame that soldiers receive. Sorry if this got a little ranty, I didn't mean for it to. Also please understand I'm not attacking you, just venting my frustration.

 

[Rottweiler]

Because they're overglorified killers who do the government's dirty job whether we like it or not.

*Your* Government. *Your* Job to fix it.

Tell me what *you* have done to stop this 'over-glorified killing'. Anything?

The true irony is that any military is about 80% Support and Logistical Staff and 20% of what anyone can really refer to as 'killers'.

But, it's okay to slap the above lame label on it. Rar killers. Rar every member of the Military is a Killer! Rar!

That would surprise my friend the Dentist in the Air Force. Or the guy who does Construction.

...or the hundreds of military *doctors* who treat victims of famine, natural disasters, and terrorism at risk to their own lives.

But indeed, sir- next time a plague breaks out and Military doctors go to help, stand at the airport and hold up a sign about how they're Killers.

No! Better yet...GO WITH THEM. That's right, you sign up and go to the next massive outbreak and watch them in *person*.

It's the only way to be sure.

 

[LetalisK]

People hate authority figures yet they still expect to be protected by them. It's really just hate for the sake of hating. I can see disliking them for their actions but to judge everyone in that profession is just being a bigot.

Pretty much this. Being a military man myself, I hate the circle jerking that goes on about people in the military, but on the other hand, it fries my shit when people throw out "baby killers", "serial rapists" or some other trite bullshit. They could at least pull their head out of their ass long enough to come up with some other completely retarded slur against the military.

 

[crazyarms33]

Add to that the fact that 90% of women serving in the military report sexual harassment and 30% have been raped, I just don't see why anyone would volunteer to enter such an environment and propagate attitudes that the military deserves respect.

Can you find the facts to post please? Last I saw the rape rate for deployed US female soldiers was less than, or right at, that of most American public universities...I just want to make sure that things haven't changed. If possible, the actual military reports would be ideal, seeing as how that is an area that the armed forces has very little tolerance for. Not saying the MSM don't have it right, but the raw data is always nice.

 

[Rottweiler]

Oh good. Because, as you know, in my post I wasn't refering to soldiers. No, I was refering to the non-combat personnel. Man, you always tell 'em like you seez 'em.

Sadly, I do calls 'em likes I sees 'em.

Because you see, your lil' post didn't say anything about 'non-combat personnel'. It said:

"Because they're overglorified killers who do the government's dirty job whether we like it or not."

And your post was, to all intents and purposes, responding to this question:

"Why do people hate the army?"

Nowhere in either was a distinction made about combat or non-combat personnel. So, *forgive me* for not being aware of the subtle subtext in your single-sentence post.

 

[TheAmazingHobo]

(snip)

So you think the majority of civilian deaths is made up by opposing forces as a means of propaganda ?
That foreign aid is money completly pissed away and that the UN is a useless mockery of an organization ?

Yet, you rock up here and complain about the IGNORANT hatred and contempt toward what YOU used to do for a job and how misguided and simplistic people judge what YOU used to do and how what YOU used to do turns out to be actually much more valuable than the "preconcieved notions" of people make them think ?

That´s..... just awesome.
You DO realize that you just gave the perfect example for why some people tend to dislike military and ex-military personel ?
Because they often tend to spout the exact same bullshit you just let loose, while crying about how unfairly and ignorant everyone else treats them.

 

[crazyarms33]

Soldiers don't go to war. Soldiers are sent to war. People seem to think that if we didn't have soldiers we wouldn't have wars. I am a strong opponent of war and I am a pacifist, but I still respect soldiers for the duty they are doing.

You. You, I think I will like. We may disagree about the necessity of war, but at least you and I agree that blaming soldiers only is silly. Kudos.

 

[n00beffect]

It's not about being ashamed of the army, it's about being ashamed of the whole militant mentality, the military organizations still persistanly retain, even though the world seems to slowly be moving away from it. I hate the army because it represents an older state of the world as a whole - a more barbaric, primitive state of mind which only serves to undermine everything modern civilization has been working towards, ever since the end of WWII. And when I say I hate the army, I don't mean I hate the soldiers and people who are serving in it. Quite the contrary, I respect them for their determination to wilfully risk their lives for what they believe and hold dear. However, I hate the organization that is the army. I feel that the soldiers' wilfullness and self-sacrifice is being exploted by those organizations, for personal gain.

The world does not need armies anymore. The age of 'conquering' and 'defending one's land', etc. has long passed, and today, in the world of economics, where a different kind of war is being waged in CEO offices, and Wall Street - the modern battlefields of today - the persistency of the military just seems a bit redundant.

And I am not saying, in any way, that there aren't still conflicts, and terrorists threats and such, in the world. All I am saying is that there may be a better way to deal with these issues, you know, without the inclusion of modern, extremely dangerous military equipment and such... Call me a hippie, beatnik, peaceloving tree-hugger if uou wish, but that is my opinion.