Why do people reject evolution?

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TheDoctor455

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Apr 1, 2009
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JoJo said:
We humans are prone to confirmation bias and that includes all of us, even those who consider themselves scientific or logical. Think about what happens whenever a study is produced that has a bearing on a controversial political position: those whose position's it will support will wave it triumphantly in their opponent's face whereas those whose position's it doesn't support will point out every issue or possible source of bias, or simply dismiss it as one study.

Considering this, it's easy to see how if a person bases their entire morality and world view around a single doctrine, in this case the bible, that it's very easy for them to dismiss even overwhelming evidence to the contrary as a conspiracy or flawed rather than change their world view. Add to that a "them vs us" mentality and people can easily get entrenched in their views, you see the same with AIDS or climate change deniers, or adherents to long ago failed political ideologies.
But that's the thing... Evolution doesn't necessarily contradict the bible.

The biggest reason that bible-thumpers don't like Evolution is because they claim its a theory about the origin of life.

It isn't.

Its a theory that accounts for the vast diversity of life on earth, nothing else.
 

manic_depressive13

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People who blame religion are missing the point, especially since most churches have accepted evolution and have simply added genesis to the ever-growing list of supposedly allegorical books of the bible. I think a large part of it is that a lot of people don't like to think that there isn't some magic, impenetrable barrier that seperates us from animals. Even people who accept evolution seem to religiously believe that there is some massive gulf between us and other animals, and the slightest suggesting that animals may be more like us than we think are met with furious accusations of anthropomorphism.
 

Dangit2019

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Aglynugga said:
My ancestors weren't monkeys ok, is that what you want to teach your kids? Bring your child to the zoo and bring them to the chimps and points to them then say' Look its your gradparents wave hello and give them a kiss."? No! That is not right we come from the bible like God says Adam and Eve not Davey and Steve and there was a snake.
So I say to you look in your heart and see that God made you and he made you very special and you are not made from monkeys.
Hey buddy, you're going to need this here flame shield:



Good luck.
 

Vault101

I'm in your mind fuzz
Sep 26, 2010
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Lugbzurg said:
Let's look at a few things. One moment, Evolution says that little cells slowly evolved into complex lifeforms. Next, it says that these complex lifeforms start devolving into simpler lifeforms.
I think I read once theres no "devlution" its just having traits that are desirable to survive in ones environment

[quote/]You can't have a slowly-developing heart, brain, lung or any of that. There are several important parts that must all be there right from the get-go, or the creature will die.[/quote]
pretty sure you can, look at how those "simpler" creatures work, again its all a very very VERY gradual process
[quote/]Considering that these lifeforms are supposed to evolve into some better creature, how is it at all likely that two lifeforms could end up being compatible after evolution has taken place for any number of generations?[/quote]
not so much "better" as "more complex" I have no Idea what you mean on the second part

[quote/]I'd recommend looking up Incredible Creatures that Defy Evolution. There's blatant proof that there is indeed a grand creator. You've just gotta pay attention, putting two and two together. Then, it becomes obvious.[/quote]
I'd also recomend looking into the science...You've just gotta pay attention, putting two and two together. Then, it becomes obvious
 

BeerTent

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May 8, 2011
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Dinwatr said:
[...]But they're attacking my means of support--and it IS an attack, some of them part of a systematic attempt to eliminate it and others duped by that attack (no conspiracy theory thinking here--there IS a conspiracy, with actual evidence, in the form of the Wedge Document). I'm all for live and let live. When they agree as well, I'll call it quits. Until then, I'm rather obligated to speak out against them. My family's well-being depends, in a very small part, on it (I'll be the first to admit I'm not an avid crusader against them, but I do my part).

Oh yeah, there's also a body count associated with rejecting evolution. A rather high one. So there's that.

Don't get me wrong; I understand where you're coming from. It's just that you obviously have a different perspective from me. For me, this is a rather immediate thing, with the potential for some fairly dire consequences. Frankly, my kind will be first against the wall if the Creationists win (and some HAVE called for that). Tends to make me rather unhappy when people spout nonsense, and I try to correct them.
While I'm not against evolution, or feel that anything biology related is foolish, This, is the part I'm a bit choked up about, and I am very interested in learning more about. Got any references?

manic_depressive13 said:
People who blame religion are missing the point, especially since most churches have accepted evolution and have simply added genesis to the ever-growing list of supposedly allegorical books of the bible. I think a large part of it is that a lot of people don't like to think that there isn't some magic, impenetrable barrier that seperates us from animals. Even people who accept evolution seem to religiously believe that there is some massive gulf between us and other animals, and the slightest suggesting that animals may be more like us than we think are met with furious accusations of anthropomorphism.
This is another thing that bothers me. When Science makes changes to their books, they've got a process. They need to run experiments, and a lot of people need to approve the results. Every step of the way, there's documentation, and anyone can recreate the results of the experiment, provided they have the [edit: Resources].

When organized religion wants to make a change to their books, a few people sign off on it and start distributing paperbacks. That's fucked. The idea of changing the entire book, because one guy with a funny hat said so with little documentation behind it, is, to me... Well... My views on the matter, probably isn't for here, considering I was warned for calling a group of fans "people".
 

Ragsnstitches

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Lugbzurg said:
Let's look at a few things. One moment, Evolution says that little cells slowly evolved into complex lifeforms. Next, it says that these complex lifeforms start devolving into simpler lifeforms.

You can't have a slowly-developing heart, brain, lung or any of that. There are several important parts that must all be there right from the get-go, or the creature will die.

Considering that these lifeforms are supposed to evolve into some better creature, how is it at all likely that two lifeforms could end up being compatible after evolution has taken place for any number of generations?

I'd recommend looking up Incredible Creatures that Defy Evolution. There's blatant proof that there is indeed a grand creator. You've just gotta pay attention, putting two and two together. Then, it becomes obvious.
Evolution says neither of those things. It is not a 1 way street but an undefinable number of branching paths that go back and forth. Evolution doesn't (or at least hasn't) retraced it's steps, so the concept of devolution is silly. Any apparent regression is in response to changes in the environment (access to food supplies gets harder, means predator size and methods MAY change for better conservation and potency).

We don't evolve in the sense of increasing superiority, but as a natural form of equilibrium. It's not that hard to grasp. Apex predators over feed? Prey dies out or diminishes, food supplies drop and given enough time, the predator may evolve to adjust to the new conditions (for example, they get smaller in size to better conserve the precious energy). Conversely, an abundance of food or a spike in numbers of prey means the predator feeds more. Given time the excess food can result in changes that make use of the increased food supply, rather then let it go to waste.

Evolution adapts to the environment (which includes things like weather, temprature, presence of certain minerals/elements, and the presence/quantities of food). It doesn't spontaneously occur for no reason. The mutations that result in evolutionary steps or leaps are more haphazard, given the astronomical number of variables that can affect change at a genetic level.

As for the necessity of major organs to just exist, look at the simpler life forms on our planet. The Earthworm doesn't have a conventional brain:

""Brain". The earthworm's brain is made up of paired ganglia (group of nerve cells) connected to a nerve cord. An impulse, such as touch, light, or moisture, is detected by skin cells." This is, essentially, a basic brain. It controls only a few simple senses, but no sound, sight or smell.

It only has a linear circulatory system:

"Circulation. In worm biology, there is not one heart, but five pairs of aortic arches, which function like a human heart. They are responsible for pumping blood into the dorsal and ventral blood vessels." The Worms "heart", much like the brain, is incredibly simple. While the human heart pumps blood around miles and miles of arteries and veins with powerful muscles, the worm heart simply keeps the blood flowing in a 2 directions, to the front and to the back.

And lastly, you'll love this one, the lungs... it doesn't have any either.

"Respiration: In worm biology, there are no lungs, but a thin layer of moist cells through which oxygen diffuses in and carbon dioxide diffuses out. These molecules must be wet so that they can enter and exit the plasma membrane, thus the worm's requirement for a moist environment. "

With this one mundane animal, I have shown a basic brain, a primal circulatory system and the complete absence of lungs, though still retaining a biological function similar to breathing.

To add to this, look at amphibians. They have water lungs, capable of diffusing oxygen from air and water, with not particularly noteworthy efficiency over gills or air only lungs.

Finally, I recommend you research Jellyfish. If they aren't existing perfectly fine without certain "necessary" organs, they are using a very primitive equivalent in its place.
 

Heronblade

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Lugbzurg said:
Let's look at a few things. One moment, Evolution says that little cells slowly evolved into complex lifeforms. Next, it says that these complex lifeforms start devolving into simpler lifeforms.

You can't have a slowly-developing heart, brain, lung or any of that. There are several important parts that must all be there right from the get-go, or the creature will die.

Considering that these lifeforms are supposed to evolve into some better creature, how is it at all likely that two lifeforms could end up being compatible after evolution has taken place for any number of generations?

I'd recommend looking up Incredible Creatures that Defy Evolution. There's blatant proof that there is indeed a grand creator. You've just gotta pay attention, putting two and two together. Then, it becomes obvious.
Actually, this is a misconception. Each and every single organ of the body can have appeared in stages, from the eye, to the heart, to the ear. In fact, we have examples of species for most of the intermediate stages that are still around.

Take the heart for instance, the cardiovascular system started off as being quite similar to that found in plants, no heart, no pump, nothing other than capillary action to keep fluid moving. a simple muscle encircling a portion of a tube develops to help keep the fluid in larger systems moving, the volume enclosed by that muscle becomes larger as demand increases, eventually, a barrier divides the chamber in two, allowing actual circulation, not just agitation, and forming the first true heart. From that point we eventually get three and then four chambered hearts like in humans.

P.S. evolution does not mean that the organism becomes "better" All it means is that environmental conditions determines who survives. In many cases, this can mean giving something up. For instance, the leg bones of a horse are very easily broken and basically will not heal at all, this happened because its current structure allows for their great speed, and speed is life for that type of creature. deevolution does not occur, but there are instances where what might be considered a lesser form allows one to survive. Take the cockroach for instance.

P.P.S. genetic reproduction is possible even after quite a bit of changes are in place. Horses can breed with donkeys, lions can breed with tigers, etc. The chances of abnormal genetic conditions increases as the species grow farther apart, but the point at which breeding becomes impossible is surprisingly wide. Its even been shown that humans and bonobo chimps were capable of producing fertile offspring up until only a few million years ago.
 

Auron

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Terminate421 said:
I believe in what I believe. But I believe it's fucking stupid to think that we just "evolved" to get to where we are from some species that was similar to us. Talk about down right depressing. This means, that we all don't matter, not one soul in the world matters. We are nothing. Fuck that.
So your entire purpose in life is based on whether or not you were born out of an improbable deity's will? I don't know for sure if there's a higher power somewhere in the universe and I don't know if I will ever be aware of such things but my life still holds a lot of purpose. We're defined by a shitload of things nowadays, our origin doesn't really matter if we make our lives meaningful in some way.


I do believe in the possibility of a higher power involved in life's creation, the conditions required for a planet that sustains life like ours do are quite specific and then there's the fact we don't even know of other planets with living populations of any kind. But deny evolution and scientific discoveries is just stupid, if anything believers should have long ago incorporated the obvious truth and the fact that all creation stories are mere anecdotes not meant to be followed to the letter but induce morality.
 

gyroscopeboy

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TheDoctor455 said:
JoJo said:
We humans are prone to confirmation bias and that includes all of us, even those who consider themselves scientific or logical. Think about what happens whenever a study is produced that has a bearing on a controversial political position: those whose position's it will support will wave it triumphantly in their opponent's face whereas those whose position's it doesn't support will point out every issue or possible source of bias, or simply dismiss it as one study.

Considering this, it's easy to see how if a person bases their entire morality and world view around a single doctrine, in this case the bible, that it's very easy for them to dismiss even overwhelming evidence to the contrary as a conspiracy or flawed rather than change their world view. Add to that a "them vs us" mentality and people can easily get entrenched in their views, you see the same with AIDS or climate change deniers, or adherents to long ago failed political ideologies.
But that's the thing... Evolution doesn't necessarily contradict the bible.

The biggest reason that bible-thumpers don't like Evolution is because they claim its a theory about the origin of life.

It isn't.

Its a theory that accounts for the vast diversity of life on earth, nothing else.
EXACTLY. I am a believer in God, and evolution makes perfect sense to me.
You would have to have to be extremely narrow minded not to see the evidence and effects of evolution all around us!

Whether they are part of a Creators plan or not, well, thats a different, more existential argument.
 

Slash Joel

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Apr 7, 2011
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Because there understanding of what a theory is completely wrong. No its not JUST a theory. The proper way to say that sentence is "It is just a hypothesis". To use the term incorrect like that is to disrespect and ignore some of the great scientific discoveries that the human race has made.
 

Naeras

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Confirmational bias, as well as the unwillingness to realize that we're not "above nature".
 

Nimzabaat

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It's basically a case of indoctrination versus indoctrination. On the one hand priests (some, not all) are teaching one school of thought, on the other hand scientists/teachers are teaching another. Though it is telling that it is the "theory of evolution", not a fact or law. It is also telling that people from the science camp will go ahead and say it's a fact while the people they learned from are still not willing to commit. Now I do believe that everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and half of them are wrong. However, I have also seen things that back up both sides to some extent.

PS: Has anyone else noticed that Humans are the only beings on this planet that smile naturally? Everything else, monkeys and apes included, bare their teeth as a threat display. Smiling is learned behavior that we can teach to animals, but where did we learn it from? It's not necessarily important, but it does pay to keep an open mind about things.
 

kyuzo3567

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Aglynugga said:
My ancestors weren't monkeys ok, is that what you want to teach your kids? Bring your child to the zoo and bring them to the chimps and points to them then say' Look its your gradparents wave hello and give them a kiss."? No! That is not right we come from the bible like God says Adam and Eve not Davey and Steve and there was a snake.
So I say to you look in your heart and see that God made you and he made you very special and you are not made from monkeys.
If you're trolling then ignore this response, if you're not.... First off I respect everyones right to religion and you can believe whatever you want, but that comment was completely and utterly wrong.

Nowhere is Evolution is it stated or believed that we evolved from monkeys, we didn't. Monkeys evolved separately from humans in two different lines. Darwins' book was titled "The Origin of Species" not "Origin of The Species" as most people believe when they say we come from monkeys. If you want more information then google "Ardi", its the oldest common ancestor between Apes and Humans, kind of at the theoretical splitting off point from our two species.

And as another thought, what's wrong with believing we had an Intelligent Designer who created us to evolve to our surroundings and to reproduce? Why can't both exist at the same time?
 

Therarchos

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JoJo said:
We humans are prone to confirmation bias and that includes all of us, even those who consider themselves scientific or logical. Think about what happens whenever a study is produced that has a bearing on a controversial political position: those whose position's it will support will wave it triumphantly in their opponent's face whereas those whose position's it doesn't support will point out every issue or possible source of bias, or simply dismiss it as one study.

Considering this, it's easy to see how if a person bases their entire morality and world view around a single doctrine, in this case the bible, that it's very easy for them to dismiss even overwhelming evidence to the contrary as a conspiracy or flawed rather than change their world view. Add to that a "them vs us" mentality and people can easily get entrenched in their views, you see the same with AIDS or climate change deniers, or adherents to long ago failed political ideologies.
The problem is this works the other way around as well. At this moment the "strong" position is evolution and any study saying otherwise is a "religious conspiracy".

I don't really care if there is evolution or not (good someone does) but I think that the real failure of modern science is the lack of objectivity. A study starts out to prove a thesis and will go to long lengths to do so. No wonder that religious people can find it to be an "atheist conspiracy".

If a religious scientist found the proof against evolution most of the atheist world would dismiss him as a nut job on the spot. Is it a wonder then that openly declared atheist scientist (some even so aggressively that it can't be described as anything but fanaticism) are dismissed in the reverse situation.

Lastly I think that the greatest fallacy in this discussion is the near reflexive reaction that people who do not believe in evolution are stupid or crazy. There are plenty of people out there who are too intelligent, or not crazy enough, to participate in a discussion where one party starts out by calling them stupid and rejecting anything they say out of hand.
By taking that position not only do you but yourself on a high horse sounding like an arrogant sod, you lock down any possibility of dialogue and answer to the questions about their position.
 

Vault101

I'm in your mind fuzz
Sep 26, 2010
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Nimzabaat said:
It's basically a case of indoctrination versus indoctrination. On the one hand priests (some, not all) are teaching one school of thought, on the other hand scientists/teachers are teaching another. Though it is telling that it is the "theory of evolution", not a fact or law. It is also telling that people from the science camp will go ahead and say it's a fact while the people they learned from are still not willing to commit.
its just words....if its not a "fact" its "pretty fucking close" please don;t tell me your pulling the "its just a theory" card....that is BS as anyone with an understanding of science knows (as in what we mean when we say theory in a scientific context)

you could argue nothing is a "fact" but what we go on is a process..thats what science is..its a process of checking and double checking and test and peer reveiw untill we come to a consensus

[quote/]PS: Has anyone else noticed that Humans are the only beings on this planet that smile naturally? Everything else, monkeys and apes included, bare their teeth as a threat display. Smiling is learned behavior that we can teach to animals, but where did we learn it from? It's not necessarily important, but it does pay to keep an open mind about things.[/quote]
like tears another thing to help comunication, different animals have different ways of comunicating, this means nothing
Therarchos said:
The problem is this works the other way around as well. At this moment the "strong" position is evolution and any study saying otherwise is a "religious conspiracy".

I don't really care if there is evolution or not (good someone does) but I think that the real failure of modern science is the lack of objectivity. A study starts out to prove a thesis and will go to long lengths to do so. No wonder that religious people can find it to be an "atheist conspiracy".
If a religious scientist found the proof against evolution most of the atheist world would dismiss him as a nut job on the spot. Is it a wonder then that openly declared atheist scientist (some even so aggressively that it can't be described as anything but fanaticism) are dismissed in the reverse situation.
so what you essentially saying is "its not FAIR! youre not taking my side of things seriously!" well of coarse they fucking aren;t.....science is a METHOD first and foremost, Religion is an idea, they are not eaqual, they are not the same

humans are still humans and bias definetly exists in the science world (especially if one has worked their whole life towards a scienfic theory/thing) but fundamentally science is all about questiong and testing things and building thease ideas on a firm foundation

[quote/]Lastly I think that the greatest fallacy in this discussion is the near reflexive reaction that people who do not believe in evolution are stupid or crazy. There are plenty of people out there who are too intelligent, or not crazy enough, to participate in a discussion where one party starts out by calling them stupid and rejecting anything they say out of hand.
By taking that position not only do you but yourself on a high horse sounding like an arrogant sod, you lock down any possibility of dialogue and answer to the questions about their position.[/quote]
you know why that is? its because 99% THEY DON'T UNDERSTAND the science...and at worst they make up shit to discredit it...so the rest of us roll our eyes, point them in the direction of the information and wait for them to catch up

evolution and religion can exist together perfectly find depending on hwo you interpret your belives..trying to discredit solid scientific theorys is anuphill battle you'll never win
 

Lhianon

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Therarchos said:
The problem is this works the other way around as well. At this moment the "strong" position is evolution and any study saying otherwise is a "religious conspiracy".

I don't really care if there is evolution or not (good someone does) but I think that the real failure of modern science is the lack of objectivity. A study starts out to prove a thesis and will go to long lengths to do so. No wonder that religious people can find it to be an "atheist conspiracy".
this is actually just wrong, if an experiment is conducted, data will be collected; if the data collected conflicts with the hypothesis proposed in the begining, the hypothesis has to be adapted to the data, not the other way around, this is what we call "the scientific method"

edit: spelling
 

Yopaz

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Jun 3, 2009
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The problem with evolution is that it's far more complicated than most give it credit for. Now I have a lot of background in evolution and I find that almost everything I learned in primary school is either inaccurate or just plain wrong. The problem grows when someone who doesn't understand it try to explain it to someone who doesn't believe in it. Misconceptions with obvious faults in them wont convince anyone.

Now in my case I guess I just never had it in me to be religious. I was taught about religion in kindergarten and I had all the creationist teachings thrown at me almost every day when I was growing up. However I didn't believe in it because there were so many things religion couldn't explain. I was in 4th grade when I first heard about evolution and then it felt like the pieces were finally coming together. Now my parents are Atheists, my grandparents are Atheists and most of my great grandparents were too so I guess I never had a chance of being religious.

To round it all up though there are several reasons. Family, level of education, the skill of those who teach the evolution vs. those who teach creationism.

Religion gives hope to some and sets the base of moral for a lot of people. I don't see why we should take that away just to make them agree with us that evolution is a thing. I respect other views and I think you others (both Christians, Atheists, Muslims Hindus Buddhists etc.) should do the same.