Why do people think Morrowind is so superior to Oblivion?

[Dagda Mor]

Ok, prepared to get schooled I kid

EDIT This isn't nostalgia, I played TES III after TES IV

More quests
More guilds
Better plot
Longer plot
Plot actually gives useful items
Varied areas not just forest and frosty hills
Cliff racers
The use of text means there is at least 4x the dialogue
Quest Arrow doesn't hold your hand throughout the entire game
More Spells eg flying
More items and type of items
You can't get the the top of each guild with 1 class (oblivion my swordsman became the leader of the mages guild, can't happen in TES III without proper skills)
You can fight and kill gods for the lulz
There are no unkillable characters
Loot isn't random and doesn't scale to your level
The whole world is alien and not 1/2 normal animals like TES IV
Better fast travel system
Good world politics

Maybe I'll add more later

EDIT Get the GOTY version for an oblivion style journal which is essential.

The only things that seem superior to me personally are the alien environment.And obviously the 'more quests/guilds/etc.' thing,but that should go without saying.And Shivering Isles takes the whole "Alien Environment" to the extreme,so that doesn't even really count.Everything else just seems like your personal preference.Also,I think the NPC level scaling was a good idea,but poorly implemented.

 

[Tyrant T100]

Hipsters, pretty much.

Nope Morrowind is one of the few games that isn't about nostalgia goggles, the problem with Oblivion is it's just a generic fantasy game, not really a TES game, Daggerfall and Morrowind both contain a lot of back-story, alien art design ect where as Oblivion is generic Tolkein hack n slash. Don't get me wrong Oblivion can be fun but it's very much a game that tries to appeal to a wider audience.

Also there are mods that fix all of Morrowind's big gameplay issues such as the combat so check them out.

 

[Sagacious Zhu]

Every time I tried to play Morrowind, I couldn't get past the graphics. From what I played, however, it just seemed a bit lifeless. True, the text screens offered more dialogue but overall, the world seemed empty compared to Oblivion.

I think a lot of it is nostalgia goggles as well as the fact that Morrowind was more of an old-school RPG where Oblivion is more modern

 

[Brian Hendershot]

Everyone up here has given some very great (and true) reasons about why Morrowind is better then Oblivion but I think people are missing out on three key reasons.

1. Mora Tong
2. Motherfucking Silt Striders
3. A naked mage falls out of the sky after you leave the first town.

The defense rests its case.

 

[kidigus]

Uh, mainly because it IS as good if not much better than Oblivion.

I did also find Morrowind much harder than Oblivion, but what can I say? It's one of the tough old basterds of gaming.

 

[Glademaster_v1legacy]

The only thing in my opinion that Oblivion did better was blocking but Morrowind didn't set the bar high there and Oblivion is nothing to shout about in that department either.

Then to a degree you have stuff like opinion and nostalgia but all and all Morrowind was a better game in my opinion and while people may not like the Oblivo fast travel I do think it should have a fast travel option like that but then the immersive option like in RDR. As in I can camp and magically appear there, get a coach or ride there on my horse. There is no need to alienate people just because some abhor a certain system which is one the complaints I hate the most.

Another sort of annoying complaint about Oblivion is that it was a generic fantasy setting with too many forests. You were in Cyrodiil what do you expect really? You can't get much more vanilla fantasy than there at least they kept it relatively canon to what it should have been although they could have had its native were forms.

In Skyrim though I hope there is a way to turn off the finishers as they seem like they might get generic and boring after awhile.

 

[Right Hook]

Alright, here's the thing: fully-voiced dialogue, improved gameplay/interface, and graphics/animations? Those are things that happened because Oblivion was a sequel on a next-gen console quite some time after its predecessor. And those aren't areas were people consider Morrowind to be superior to Oblivion.

Yes, I get that. I made the point because adding all of those things meant they wouldn't be able to flesh out certain aspects of the game, like in previous ones. Quality or quantity, I totally see where you are coming from with this though.

Here's the thing: you judge a game by how much fun you have playing it. A fair number of people had more fun with Morrowind than they did with Oblivion. They didn't play Oblivion and then go back and play Morrowind. They played the latter when it was first released, and then the former when it was released.

Definitely, I didn't claim my opinion was the right one, I realize I technically played these games incorrectly, I took that into account when I was comparing them.

And to be frank, you'll never really understand why many people liked Morrowind more than Oblivion. Because you weren't one of those people: it would've required you to be playing Morrowind back in 2002, and then picking up Oblivion in 2006. It has nothing to do with your condescending remark about nostalgia: it's a matter of knowing that standards don't change retroactively for past achievements.

You're right, I can't understand why people like it more, that's why I made this thread, that way I could at least get a little insight into it. My remark about nostalgia wasn't meant to come off as condescending, it is unfortunate that you felt it was. I personally believe nostalgia plays a big role in almost every comparison and to completely assume it doesn't have some sort of effect just seems foolish, again that is just my opinion.

 

[Zerazar]

3. A naked mage falls out of the sky after you leave the first town.

I had forgotten about that xD.

I've played both, and despite nostalgia goggles, I still think Oblivion is the better game. Morrowind did more stuff, but it often did so poorly. The combat system and the leveling system were made of boiled donkey genitals in particular.

Granted, the leveling system in Oblivion is not better.

 

[Spectrum_Prez]

Hipsters, pretty much.

I couldn't get into Morrowind, hated the interface and the whole thing just felt too clunky.

Oh wow...

Morrowind is clunky????

Oblivion had a horrible list inventory compared to Morrowinds awesome grid inventory.

I rest my case.

Morrowind also had the most awesome sound effect for when you move stuff around in your inventory.

 

[ninja51]

Its all personal opinion. The Elder Scrolls is my favorite series of all time, and I love Oblivion and Morrowind. I will be honest and say I love Oblivion more though.

Both have quite alot of little annoyances and problems, dont let anyone tell you different, but as a fellow above me stated, Morrowind had more stuff, Oblivion had less but did it better.

Its all down to personal preference then.

 

[Tyrant T100]

Also in some ways I think the graphics of Morrowind have aged better than Oblivion's mostly due to art direction. As Morrowind was quite unique a high res texture pack and a high polygon model pack fixes all the issues with it. Where as Oblivion will always suffer from rather bland environments and of course those creepy potato faces. Oblivion came out the same year as Dark Messiah of Might and Magic and Dark Messiah has aged way way better than Oblivion despite using an older engine because of it's art design.

 

[Right Hook]

Oblivion had a horrible list inventory compared to Morrowinds awesome grid inventory.

This is something I definitely agree with. Morrowind had superior inventory.

 

[RetardedKitty]

Why Oblivion failed in eyes of many was because... it came out to fast. No really, ask people how long did they play Morrowind, how many times did they repeat the game, created new characters, got new add-ons, installed the game again because of the expansions that came out.
Most of people i know including me still played and enjoyed Morrowind in its full a little before Oblivion came out. And when a lot of us got it to our hands... well we got sick of it, no matter how much different graphics or art is or even the quests game was still the same, as someone before me mentioned it had even less stuff than Morrowind. If you eat a chocolate cake for evey day for 3 years, changing your diet to strawberry cake will probably make you ill anyway... because its still a Cake...

 

[imnot]

I actually prefer Oblivion, and I played Morrowind first, I juts cant forgive it for its combat.
And how come evryone in the town has memorised the towns travel guide? seriously ask for dierections and they will rattle of a 3 paragraph long wall of text.

 

[skullduggery]

Well, one of the major problems that I had with Oblivion was that from far away, it looks great. Trees swaying in the wind, people talking, and weather-worn Ayleid ruins.

It seemed however, when you got close up, things fell apart. Animals in the forest pass by each other with a courtesy nod or chase you across a continent, "SAW A MUDCRAB TODAY", and those Ayleid ruins just go "Hey look! I'm old! You can tell by my skeletons." In Morrowind, the Dwemer ruins felt, well...alive, steam bellowing, clockwork guardian clacking down a corridor, and you can pick up random stone gears.

The environment and mythos was also much better. The black Dunmer were colonized by the white Imperials (obvious allegory is obvious), and they were livid about it. Their religion was being pushed aside, their traditional culture supplanted by mercantile Imperial traits, and their lifestyle was under constant threat. This was portrayed really well, at least to me. Even the bad guy was interesting with the whole 'what really happened at Red Mountain?' feeling to it. The random Dreamers that would pop out and talk/attack you in urban areas, and the threat of zombification made those dungeons so much more interesting.

Complex characters, good storytelling, and minor details will make a game great, rather than just, "HERP DERP I'M AN EVIL DEMON MONSTER DESTROYIN' UR CITY CUZ THAT'S WHAT I DO BRO."

Also cliff racers. I must have spent 6+ hours engaging in genocidal extermination of those foul things. Ugh, just remembering that damn screech is angering.

 

[Char-Nobyl]

Alright, here's the thing: fully-voiced dialogue, improved gameplay/interface, and graphics/animations? Those are things that happened because Oblivion was a sequel on a next-gen console quite some time after its predecessor. And those aren't areas were people consider Morrowind to be superior to Oblivion.

Yes, I get that. I made the point because adding all of those things meant they wouldn't be able to flesh out certain aspects of the game, like in previous ones. Quality or quantity, I totally see where you are coming from with this though.

No, you clearly don't. It's not quality versus quantity. What you see in Morrowind was the sort of quality that you could get out of the hardware/software of the time. Again, you can't retroactively apply modern standards to past opinions. You can say now that you didn't enjoy Morrowind because it didn't hold up to the test of time, but your assertion was that everyone who preferred Morrowind must have been misremembering whether or not they had fun.

Here's the thing: you judge a game by how much fun you have playing it. A fair number of people had more fun with Morrowind than they did with Oblivion. They didn't play Oblivion and then go back and play Morrowind. They played the latter when it was first released, and then the former when it was released.

Definitely, I didn't claim my opinion was the right one, I realize I technically played these games incorrectly, I took that into account when I was comparing them.

Again, no, you clearly didn't. I think it's safe to say that every person who says they enjoyed Morrowind more than Oblivion also played Morrowind when it was first released. That is the single fact that invalidates every assertion about graphics, game engine, etc that you can make, simply because it was physically impossible to do those things when Morrowind first came out.

Gameplay? Yes, Oblivion was an improvement. Story? Not so much. Oblivion had a great story, but Morrowind's was better, the highlight being a villain who was actually a compelling character.

And to be frank, you'll never really understand why many people liked Morrowind more than Oblivion. Because you weren't one of those people: it would've required you to be playing Morrowind back in 2002, and then picking up Oblivion in 2006. It has nothing to do with your condescending remark about nostalgia: it's a matter of knowing that standards don't change retroactively for past achievements.

You're right, I can't understand why people like it more, that's why I made this thread, that way I could at least get a little insight into it.

You say 'like.' That's the issue with your entire argument: you say 'like' when you should be saying 'liked.' They liked Morrowind better when they first played it than they liked Oblivion when they first played it. Practically every point you're judging it by is a software standard, which is completely irrelevant. Judging Morrowind's software at the time of its release by Oblivion's standards would be like judging the Kinect by the standards set by the not-actually-yet-invented holodeck.

My remark about nostalgia wasn't meant to come off as condescending, it is unfortunate that you felt it was.

I see. So instead of apologizing for the wording of your original statement, you're expressing pity for how I interpreted it? There is absolutely no sincerity in an apology that says, "I'm sorry you thought that's what I said."

And, ironically, that's the sort of condescension I was talking about.

 

[Exterminas]

I love how people always state that Oblivion had the suprerior combat system.

The combat systems in these games were exactly the same, expect for one thing: Where Morrowind had the possibility to miss with an attack, Oblivion scaled down the damage each hit caused to compensate for a character's low skill.

That's it.

Nothing else was different.

 

[BiggyShackleton]

Hipsters, pretty much.

I couldn't get into Morrowind, hated the interface and the whole thing just felt too clunky.

Oh wow...

Morrowind is clunky????

Oblivion had a horrible list inventory compared to Morrowinds awesome grid inventory.

I rest my case.

Morrowind also had the most awesome sound effect for when you move stuff around in your inventory.

To this day that sound is still stuck in my head, only potentially beaten by the sound Icewind Dale used to make when you equipped stuff. So awesome.

 

[Right Hook]

No, you clearly don't. It's not quality versus quantity. What you see in Morrowind was the sort of quality that you could get out of the hardware/software of the time. Again, you can't retroactively apply modern standards to past opinions. You can say now that you didn't enjoy Morrowind because it didn't hold up to the test of time, but your assertion was that everyone who preferred Morrowind must have been misremembering whether or not they had fun.

No, Morrowind could have focused itself tighter and had more spoken dialogue, less but better functioning skills, etc. and that's just going off what I've seen from other games of that time. Would that been the right choice? Probably not. I feel for it's time, that's what Oblivion did, they focused it more and some people preferred that, others did not.

Again, no, you clearly didn't. I think it's safe to say that every person who says they enjoyed Morrowind more than Oblivion also played Morrowind when it was first released. That is the single fact that invalidates every assertion about graphics, game engine, etc that you can make, simply because it was physically impossible to do those things when Morrowind first came out.

How can you assume that? Generally speaking, you might be right but it certainly isn't true for absolutely everyone. Like I've said, it isn't just about graphics or engine. I thought it was more focused, I didn't feel lost, some people like that, I don't. Preferred story is just an opinion, you can't say one is better than the other.

You say 'like.' That's the issue with your entire argument: you say 'like' when you should be saying 'liked.' They liked Morrowind better when they first played it than they liked Oblivion when they first played it. Practically every point you're judging it by is a software standard, which is completely irrelevant. Judging Morrowind's software at the time of its release by Oblivion's standards would be like judging the Kinect by the standards set by the not-actually-yet-invented holodeck.

When I started this, it wasn't meant to be an argument. It was an opinion poll, I simply stated mine. The reason you find holes in my argument was because I wasn't making one, you are the one who started fighting with me over this. I was just curious and trying to get a friendly thread started, that's it.

I see. So instead of apologizing for the wording of your original statement, you're expressing pity for how I interpreted it? There is absolutely no sincerity in an apology that says, "I'm sorry you thought that's what I said."

And, ironically, that's the sort of condescension I was talking about.

This is just pure rude, so because I didn't feel the need to apologize for how I worded something, I'm the one with a problem? If I did that every time someone criticized me for something I said that they didn't like, I'd be doing that constantly. I'm sorry, truly sorry you don't like the way I write or that I don't apologize at the drop of a hat. Nobody else took offense to what I said, they realized I was asking all of this out pure curiosity and not some feeling of superiority. I really didn't want to get into an argument, say what you want and turn it back on me if you must but I'm not replying again because I don't think we will see eye to eye, so it will just be a waste of words on both our parts.

 

[Sheepy Sheep]

Personally, I preferred Oblivion because I found it more fluid and easier to get into.

I had a problem when I played Morrowind that the start of the game just took too long to get going and I spent the first few hours finding something to do. Oblivion on the other hand gave you an idea of what to do from the off.

Admittedly the environment in Morrowind was more interesting but i wouldn't necessarily say more varied; if you actually looked in detail at Oblivion each town had it's own style (the cold north, plains in the west and swamps of the south) and the more 'typical' fantasy of it just made it more accessible. It had Ayleid ruins which were marvelous and far from ordinary and all these things just drew me in to it in a way which Morrowind just couldn't


The combat and NPC dialogue felt more fluid. which is partly down to advances in the engine but as someone before has said the whole random chance to miss thing just seems odd.

Lastly, more content in a game doesn't just make it better. I had over 100 hours of gameplay in oblivion which is more than enough for a game whereas Morrowind almost smothered you in options, another thing which put me off.