Why do publishers still bother with DRM?
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The pirates always get it in the end, who knows what their reason is, maybe its a challenge or they are bored. the important thing is the game. Steam had a sale recently where i ended up buying 10 games for $60 USD. these were games that were 1-2 years old that i refused to pay $100.00 on release day.
Check out the new medium of cellphones, the games aren't expensive (ok, they aren't works of art), but it reminds me of the late 80's with the Amiga 500 breaking the frontier of game making.
DRM annoys me, i bought two games with it and refuse to buy anymore.
Check out the new medium of cellphones, the games aren't expensive (ok, they aren't works of art), but it reminds me of the late 80's with the Amiga 500 breaking the frontier of game making.
DRM annoys me, i bought two games with it and refuse to buy anymore.
Again, that argument only applies to CD keys if you don't lose them. If you lose your CD key, then you certainly can't be playing your game whenever or wherever you want. Besides, the rise and near dominance of digital distribution really complicates things with regards to CD keys, which is why DRM has sort of evolved past that method.lunncal said:
And I really still have to disagree with the whole use of "consumer rights". Again, the word rights just carries too many philosophical implications-- many of which I fully don't understand... read up on it, it is rather interesting-- to the point it is a word that you really can't just throw around. I think consumer protection is fundamentally different from consumer rights, since it simply doesn't carry the same connotations. Now, I do think companies should always extend certain courtesies, perhaps to the point where the law actively forces them to (hence "consumer protection" being a good term), but the problem lies in what courtesies need to be extended to intellectual property, which is where things get sticky. The analogy you worked out with cars doesn't really make much sense in the grand scheme of things, as cars are physical property, and the legal implications of ownership are very, VERY different from that of intellectual property, especially regarding software. I think we still need more time for the legal system to really work out what rights and such a consumer has regarding intellectual property. This is yet another reason why the whole consumer rights/protection thing starts to break down, as there is still a lot of legal disagreement about the whole thing.
However, it's not that I think DRM is perfect. We have already seen what happens when a company goes "too far" with regards to the protection of their property (just look at the outcry against the always on DRM Ubisoft did), and I think the outcry does help keep things in check. It all comes down to designing DRM that is less obtrusive and more protective, and given that companies want to protect their investments, I think its the only way DRM can head.
It is to appease the shareholders most of the time. The average shareholder knows jack shit about the running of a video game publisher. By putting DRM in place a CEO can tell them that they have done all they can to ensure their profits aren't stolen.
This seems relevant.phoenican said:
I wouldn't go as far as that. The people who make games are mostly ok. The shareholders are greedy morons. Anyhow this trend to strip us from our rights is because gaming is still new in our culture and a lot of people don't know anything about it. So big comapnies target morons and get their cash. It's normal. Don't worry, the bigger and more common games become, the more selfaware our community will be. It's just time.Xanthious said:
About DRM, always-on DRM is pretty much stupid, there is no reason to do that, and if something fails, you don't have game. Other hard DRM are just the training course for hackers. Soft DRM works because you can't simply copy game and give it to your friend, and that's good, but you should be able to lend it to him or sell it, because why not? Why i can do this with car, computer, anything i have but not games? That's what i think
My fun drm story :
I was cleaning my room about 3 months ago I found Mass Effect in the box under my bed.
I was like Hmm i should replay this.
I open the box the cd is there but no manual or key.
I email EA/bioware and sent them a picture of the box saying I lost my key.
There response was Buy another copy.
I bought the game new when it first came out. I usually buy from steam because I lose things.
I don't want to have two copies of the same game.
I used a crack on the game I own.
Now Origin If I download it, will scan for it and find it so i can lose all my games, because I cracked one I own.
I was cleaning my room about 3 months ago I found Mass Effect in the box under my bed.
I was like Hmm i should replay this.
I open the box the cd is there but no manual or key.
I email EA/bioware and sent them a picture of the box saying I lost my key.
There response was Buy another copy.
I bought the game new when it first came out. I usually buy from steam because I lose things.
I don't want to have two copies of the same game.
I used a crack on the game I own.
Now Origin If I download it, will scan for it and find it so i can lose all my games, because I cracked one I own.
You know why? Because little timmy can't copy it and give it to his fuckwad friend. That's why.
It's not to stop pirates, publisher know pirates have the last word.
Ubisoft still sucks though
It's not to stop pirates, publisher know pirates have the last word.
Ubisoft still sucks though
And yet GOG is still in business.Stall said:
Just because something makes good business sense doesn't necessarily make it the right thing to do. Frequently the opposite, in fact.
How dare those AIDS victims be bitter about massively inflated prices of antiretroviral drugs. It's a sound business decision!
I would however argue that if you lose your CD key more fool you. You could lose the disc as easily. Its not like say...arbitrary install limits or only being able to play while your internet is working.Stall said:
People need to do more IMO. I think as gamers we put up with an AWFUL lot of shit in the name of our hobby. We already have a group out saying that gamers are psychotic morons a hair away from snapping, then we have the publishers who not only force crappy DRM down our throats but also there is the whole concept of pre-orders. I was looking at my deus ex pre order and thinking "I just bought this 100% on faith that it will be good. Off like 2 trailers. WTF have I done? the second one was CRAP."
I don't pre-order books or films or indeed ANYTHING else. Books and films don't have crappy DRM requiring me to wear a shirt and tie while standing on my head with a full moon to use them. Something needs to change fast.
Captcha 1 is upside down. Should I plug my keyboard in upside down?
No fair hitting him with a thread from '09.Dumbfish1 said:
OT: It's a pipe dream. Developers think they're doing the right thing because it'll somehow magically prevent {A} piracy and {B} the selling of used games via places like Gamestop or other local places (like The Exchange over here). This is a total fantasy and I will explain for why...
{!} SNAAAAKE!! (Whoops.)
{1} The piracy thing. Oh, developers of media have been so keen on trying to block pirates from stealing their booty, especially in gaming. They involve special codes (cracked), bricked devices (cracked), the always-on net-based DRM (VERY cracked, VERY fast), and even the cut-content idea from Rage (cracked mere days after release, most likely). At least a couple of these ideas are viewed as immoral. I myself will not buy a 3DS on the basis that it's possible to accidentally fuck it up because of the aforementioned bricking. I won't accept that, which is a shame since I'd been so keen to give Ninento money before. Oh well. Still, the point is that the louder developers yell and scream and rant and piss and moan about protection when it's entirely pointless, the more the pirates turn up with "YAR!" and a cracked game. By putting so much into anti-piracy (that doesn't work) technology, companies essentially throw away good money they could've been using on the GAME, that thing they were trying to sell in the first place.
{2} The anti-resell thing. This is ridiculous. Business is meant to be carried out by marketing a product and competing with others in order to create profit. Trying to prevent shops from selling used games essentially farts in the face of economics itself. (Namely, preventing the circulation of an item does more harm than good. It's so self-serving, like alot of things a business does wrong, but that's another story.) All the attempts to prevent resell are basically retarded because it alienates anyone who likes games who are not fucking RICH. A good example would be that I have great income to play with, and so I can just buy as I like, but I have BEEN on the used game wagon and it is a BLESSING to those who haven't been as fortunate as I have in life. Developers prevent game fans from getting what they want at a lower price, basically because they're being dicks and assholes. They don't actually care about the customer. They expect you to buy whether you approve or not of their methods. And ironically...this too brings on the pirates. Piracy was made popular by these questionable acts, and it literally WILL NOT die down until they cool it.
{3} Additionally, Neil Gaiman's opinion over piracy is a very open-minded take on the subject (piracy seen as essentially going to the library and therefore good for opening more fanbase and free advertising). It should be looked up (probably on youtube) at least once.
BOTTOM LINE: What developers and companies need to do, and I say NEED because nothing good will happen otherwise, is back off and calm the hell down about their new special DRMs and lifewise crap-practices. The thing their trying to protect isn't, and they're harming both the customer and themselves. If they'd only try planning around their perceived losses and use that to HELP their business (totally possible) instead of trying to Fort Knox everything, they'd retain profit and be alot more popular with the fans.
Not every house gets broken into. And you could make a door strong enough to with stand anything.Dastardly said:
Not every game gets hacked. And no, you can't. If you make a door strong enough to withstand anything, you've made a door you can no longer open or close. In most circles, that's called a "wall." And even then, there's always a way in.shameduser said:
The point here? A lock doesn't guarantee your door is impervious. It's what is referred to as a "deterrent." The job is just to make breaking into your house so inconvenient that most would-be thieves decide to go elsewhere. It's not going to stop a determined thief, but that's the chance we all take for having a door that doesn't take ten minutes for us to lock and unlock.
Think of cars, too: Why do we have door locks, when the windows are made of glass? I mean, c'mon, all you have to do is hit the window with a hammer and ta-da! You're in. Why would they even make locks? Because the point isn't to make it impossible, it's to make it inconvenient. Most people don't want your car bad enough to break the window to get it, so that is enough of a deterrent.
That's how DRM works, too. Most people out there don't know how to crack a game. And a lot of those people don't trust hacking sites, torrents, etc., enough to risk downloading a cracked version of a game. At the very least, they'll have to wait until a cracked version gains enough popularity that they're willing to trust it. By then, more than a few of them have decided to just buy the thing... and those that wait? They were likely never going to pay anyway, so their opinions on the value of the game are empty.
The reason that you might have this idea that "every" game gets hacked, or that it's so common that companies should just give up on DRM? Look where you hang out. You're on a forum dedicated to gaming, which is going to be frequented by game-savvy folks. You're just more likely to run into that sort of discussion here, that's all.
It'd be like going to a gym and wondering why "everyone" in the world is a bodybuilder. They're not. You just happen to be hanging out where they do.
I'd have to agree that DRM is necessary, but some DRM is overkill.
A real world example is that stores don't just leave the shop open with a bucket by the door say 'leave payment here' as it would be too easy to steal from them. However they also don't sell you the cereal in a locked case that you need to connect to your router and let it call back to Kellogg's each morning to make sure you're the guy that bought it before you can open the lid.
Essentially, if they can stop casual and lazy piracy, that's enough, the dedicated will bust thru anything in their way, but if there can be a certain time barrier between release (or before) and the game showing up cracked on torrent sites, then that's all they need, after all the VAST majority of profit comes from full price sales in the first few weeks.
A real world example is that stores don't just leave the shop open with a bucket by the door say 'leave payment here' as it would be too easy to steal from them. However they also don't sell you the cereal in a locked case that you need to connect to your router and let it call back to Kellogg's each morning to make sure you're the guy that bought it before you can open the lid.
Essentially, if they can stop casual and lazy piracy, that's enough, the dedicated will bust thru anything in their way, but if there can be a certain time barrier between release (or before) and the game showing up cracked on torrent sites, then that's all they need, after all the VAST majority of profit comes from full price sales in the first few weeks.
The only types of DRM that bug me are the always-online ones and the 3-installs-only ones.
Always online DRM: I have choppy 3G because, believe it or not, some people live in rural areas with the nearest cable or stable wireless signal being more than 15 miles away.
3 installs: I have many, many computers in my house. I have my laptop right now, which I use more than anything, but when a game doesn't work on it, I'll install it on another. Then I get a new computer. I install it on that, thinking it'll be the last time, but then I restart the system and start the game--only to find that I have the wrong type of graphics card. I then have to call customer support to have them remove the rights to the game on one of my computers. Even if the call goes smoothly and the people I talk to have a better knowledge of English than the average monkey, there's absolutely no reason I should have to go through that when all I want to do it play a game that I've already paid $60 for.
CD keys are annoying, but I can deal with them because nothing prevents me from doing so. Any gamer can put in a CD key. Not all gamers can cope with the always-online DRM or the 3 install limit.
Disc checks aren't a big problem. My only problem with them is that my CD drive doesn't work anymore and it would take too long to download an ISO with my 1-40 (average) kbps connection (apparently it's legal if you own the game, but can't play the packaged version).
Always online DRM: I have choppy 3G because, believe it or not, some people live in rural areas with the nearest cable or stable wireless signal being more than 15 miles away.
3 installs: I have many, many computers in my house. I have my laptop right now, which I use more than anything, but when a game doesn't work on it, I'll install it on another. Then I get a new computer. I install it on that, thinking it'll be the last time, but then I restart the system and start the game--only to find that I have the wrong type of graphics card. I then have to call customer support to have them remove the rights to the game on one of my computers. Even if the call goes smoothly and the people I talk to have a better knowledge of English than the average monkey, there's absolutely no reason I should have to go through that when all I want to do it play a game that I've already paid $60 for.
CD keys are annoying, but I can deal with them because nothing prevents me from doing so. Any gamer can put in a CD key. Not all gamers can cope with the always-online DRM or the 3 install limit.
Disc checks aren't a big problem. My only problem with them is that my CD drive doesn't work anymore and it would take too long to download an ISO with my 1-40 (average) kbps connection (apparently it's legal if you own the game, but can't play the packaged version).
