Why do some people consider Alistair from Dragon Age Origins to be whiny or "emo"? (spoilers)
- Thread starter lucky_sharm
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Preface: I <3 Alistair
... but he is a whiner.
The mourning for Duncan in the first few segments of the game is understandable, but he doesn't seem to ever let it go - and lest we forget, he knew the guy for all of 6 months. He's much less upset about his 10+ year father figure in Eamon lying on his death bed than he is about a war-buddy who "rescued" him from... being a Templar, which is apparently a fate worse than death (?) No idea why he's got that juxtaposition of emotional priorities, maybe transference, but even that's a bit of a stretch to me.
Again - I love Alistair, big time. Most of my Wardens romanced him (except the non-human ones, after I go my heart smashed to pieces the first time with my Elf Mage... who he promised to love forever and ever...
I guess I would say that Alistair isn't so much "whiny" as he is unreasonable in his expectations of the Warden, but doesn't really live up to those high standards of behavior he expects himself. He expects the Warden to be the best, most upstanding person possible, but when he hits a wall with a hard choice, he bails. He bails on responsibility when Duncan dies and the group needs a leader, he bails on the Warden romantically if the going gets tough, he bails on the whole group if one particular decision doesn't go his way. He isn't made of the same stuff he expects the Warden to be made of - maybe he wants to be, maybe that's what he aspires to, but it isn't what he is - yet.
Doesn't mean I don't think he's still a good guy, but there's definitely a downside to the character if you don't play in a way to have his best side always showing.
... but he is a whiner.
This is cemented for me by his reaction to the very reasonable alternative to beheading the former hero-gone-stupid in front of the assembled nobility of Ferelden and y'know, maybe getting another warden in the process, which might come in handy given there's only 3 in the whole Blight stricken country and the odds of all of us dying to the Archdemon are astronomically high
His reaction to the death of Isolde and/or Connor should you not have the happy-time option of going to the Circle for help if they have been cleansed already is pretty over the top as well, given the obvious impossibility of the situation. Granted, he apologies, but it's still pretty high drama
The mourning for Duncan in the first few segments of the game is understandable, but he doesn't seem to ever let it go - and lest we forget, he knew the guy for all of 6 months. He's much less upset about his 10+ year father figure in Eamon lying on his death bed than he is about a war-buddy who "rescued" him from... being a Templar, which is apparently a fate worse than death (?) No idea why he's got that juxtaposition of emotional priorities, maybe transference, but even that's a bit of a stretch to me.
Again - I love Alistair, big time. Most of my Wardens romanced him (except the non-human ones, after I go my heart smashed to pieces the first time with my Elf Mage... who he promised to love forever and ever...
and then dropped like a bad habit the minute the crown was hovering over his head, in front of all of our friends... because I was an Elf and a Mage, which he knew already. Ass
I guess I would say that Alistair isn't so much "whiny" as he is unreasonable in his expectations of the Warden, but doesn't really live up to those high standards of behavior he expects himself. He expects the Warden to be the best, most upstanding person possible, but when he hits a wall with a hard choice, he bails. He bails on responsibility when Duncan dies and the group needs a leader, he bails on the Warden romantically if the going gets tough, he bails on the whole group if one particular decision doesn't go his way. He isn't made of the same stuff he expects the Warden to be made of - maybe he wants to be, maybe that's what he aspires to, but it isn't what he is - yet.
Doesn't mean I don't think he's still a good guy, but there's definitely a downside to the character if you don't play in a way to have his best side always showing.
Definitely. I love Alister. He was my bro in Origins.Mikejames said:
Morrigan, Alister and Sten. A fuckin' dream team.
Great. Now I need to reinstall the game.
He may not quite reach the "I'm gonna shove ice picks in my ears if you don't STFU" JRPG kind of emo, but in that cast and timeline he stands out like a sore thumb.
I really didn't care apart from the fact that he always used snarky sarcastic remarks but when you gave one back he went all emo on you, ***** do you not comprehend how social dynamics work... that just just outlined his whinny nature even more.
I really didn't care apart from the fact that he always used snarky sarcastic remarks but when you gave one back he went all emo on you, ***** do you not comprehend how social dynamics work... that just just outlined his whinny nature even more.
I didn't see him as whiny and he definitely wasn't irritating to me. I loved his character as he came across as sarcastic and fun.
This.Mylinkay Asdara said:
The most interesting part of the Grey Warden mythology is that they do whatever is required. This can mean slaughtering innocents or letting a traitor or blood mage live (or even recruiting them) if it means getting the job done. To a degree, Alistair seems to understand this - he doesn't blink when the Joining is performed. However, it doesn't stop him from calling you out when you act like a prick.
Also, who here loves the idea of being responsible for saving their country? Not actually having done it, but being responsible for it? Knowing that you're pretty much the only person who could do it? I think Alistair's perspective is reasonably realistic - he's a relatively new recruit, and now he's got the weight of a kingdom on his shoulders (in more ways that one). He doesn't think of himself as a leader. The Wardens are the only place he's ever felt at home. He's never been raised to rule or lead. He doubts himself and covers it with humour, and that doubt is really the only thing that's stopping him.
He's no emo, unless your concept of "being a man" means acting like Master Chief or Kratos and just blindly killing everything that gets in your way without a second thought. Those guys would *suck* at a party. For an RPG, I'd take an Alistair over the hyper-aggressive concepts of "masculinity" served up in most games these days.
Only time I really took umbridge with his behaviour was when he threw his toys out of the pram over the possibility of a certain someone joining the party. There he puts his personal feelings ahead of the lives of everyone in the country which was pretty annoying and immature. Apart from that incident I have a lot of affection for Alistair. Apart from his hair. I hate hair styles which look like they require products in fantasy games. Giving him the quiff of a 10yr old boy from the 90s was a bad decision.
This. I always called him a man-child. He shirks responsibility and is prone to temper tantrums.Mylinkay Asdara said:
I've been a Grey Warden for a day and Alistair dumps the responsibility of leading us and gathering an army onto me because he doesn't like to lead. This doesn't mean that he won't second guess every decision I make. And the bit with Loghain is the final straw. My Warden had nothing against Loghain personally, and getting another Warden and sparing a national war hero seemed like a pretty good move. But little Alistair wanted his revenge. Oh, and he changed his mind, he wanted to be king now too. It is his fault that he is hanging from a noose. Though, if you spare him, he becomes a drunk who wallows in self-pity for the rest of his life. I guess I did him a favor. And he dumps you if you are an elf and mage? Wow, add that to the list. At least Morrigan had a reason other than "politically inconvenient".
I loved Alistair. Perhaps he whined sometimes but given the situation it's understandable.
He was one of the funniest characters in the game though and I ALWAYS had him in my party just to hear what he would say at various moments
Such a great character, he's like the Garrus of Dragon Age.
This complain could be levelled at so many RPG characters eg. Carth or Bastila who could've easily led in KoToR. Some sacrifices have to be made so we have an open RPG instead of just following an NPC around.
He was one of the funniest characters in the game though and I ALWAYS had him in my party just to hear what he would say at various moments
Such a great character, he's like the Garrus of Dragon Age.
Oh come on if Alistair was going to lead the party to gather the armies to fight the blight, it would've been "Dragon Age: Alistair" instead of "Dragon Age: Origins".RedEyesBlackGamer said:
This complain could be levelled at so many RPG characters eg. Carth or Bastila who could've easily led in KoToR. Some sacrifices have to be made so we have an open RPG instead of just following an NPC around.