"Why do White Christians Vote Republican, and Black Christians Vote Democrat?"

[ObsidianJones]

Its not really a zero sum game. Racist parties still end up attracting the vote of the racists or people who are to some degree uncomfortable with minorities. Policies aimed against minorities and opposition to immigration can be quite the vote magnet. Republicans now being so terrified of upsetting the worst aspects of their electorate shows that appealing to those aspects can be very lucrative on an electoral level.

No but they do say the closest thing they can get away with saying. Trump saying ''They send criminals and rapists'' or proclaiming a black president can't possibly be born in America isn't just him failing to restrain his worst impulses. To a strong degree its also him recognizing there is a big market for those kind of statements. Them denying it means nothing. Even the likes of Thiery Baudet who says he wants to keep Europe white, sits down for lunch with famous racists, obsesses over ''Homeopathic dilution'' and who wants to protect our ''boreal world'' denies being racist. Even those that want the votes of racists don't want the stigma associated with it so of course they deny it. Many racists themselves also don't want to see themselves as racists either.

To piggy off of this point, the Police often say there is no misconduct with how events occur, but when further details come to light... we find that police often outright fabricate their stories.

See... well, any one of the police posts I put up in forever.

Flip it for those who still aren't convinced. Because usually a lot of you do not trust media because you found one, two, or ten examples of how Media has lied or manipulated the facts to sell papers.

Ok. Just as you're justified in those feelings, so are we justified for not trusting cops because one, two, or ten of them manipulated police reports, 'lost' videos, and basically outright lied.

 

[tstorm823]

Wonderful, ppl are still stuck on this blatant historical revisionism. Though, am not surprised, just disappointed.

*Hovers over Candice Owens idiot rambling video share link*

Nah, not feeling up for that cruelty today. Instead...

PolitiFact.com - Candace Owens wrong about Southern strategy

During a congressional hearing on hate crimes, conservative African American commentator Candace Owens said that the Rep

www.politifact.com

Again, I've been making this argument for several times as long as Candace Owens has been a conservative. And I'm better at it. Much, much better at it.

Let's look at this "fact check". First, you need to keep this clearly in your mind: "the Southern Strategy" is not a Republican term. It is not words Republicans have ever used to describe their own actions. "The Southern Strategy" is an accusation by Democrats that Republicans were pushing racial politics to win in the southern states. When Republicans are quoted about "the Southern Strategy" in that article, they are either being asked by Democrat-friendly media about that exact phrase, or they are specifically referring to the public controversy. Look at these quotes:

"There’s a total fear of what’s called the Southern strategy. Blacks understand that their wellbeing is being sacrificed to political gain. There has to be some moral leadership from the president on the race question, and there just hasn’t been any." - He's not talking about Republicans using the southern strategy. He's saying black voters are afraid of what is called the Southern strategy. Like, the actual quote is "The way I see the black vote now, there's a total fear..." Politifact wants to make it seem like he was revealing Republican secret strategies, but he was referring directly to the public image of Republicans being propagated by Democrats, and he believed Nixon did not display the moral leadership to counter that perception. That is not saying that Republicans employed "the Southern Strategy", only that they failed to dispel the image that they were.

"SOUTHERN STRATEGY — we flat out invited the kind of political battle that ultimately erupted when we named a Democrat-turned-Republican conservative from South Carolina. This confirmed the Southern strategy just at a time when it was being nationally debated," Alexander wrote. Again, this is not acknowledgement of the existence of a Southern Strategy employed by Republicans, but rather Nixon asked him why the nomination failed, and Alexander answered that he nominated a guy from South Carolina while being accused of courting southern racists. He's not saying Nixon meant to invite the controversy on purpose, he's saying he should have known better.

Nixon strategist Kevin Phillips openly discussed the Southern strategy in a newspaper article in 1973: "Some pretty horrible stuff." Well, Kevin Philips connection to the Republican party is not particularly deep. He's famous only for suggesting Republicans should appeal to racists, which was hardly innovative since the accusation of racism had already been major factor in the campaign 4 years prior. He worked on only the Nixon campaign where he lost the South to the Dixiecrats, before leaving Republican politics to be a media commentator (the period these statements were written), and left the Republican Party, and eventually became an outright critic of Republicans. Altogether, these were statements published after he quit working for the Republicans describing what he thought they ought to be doing (implying they weren't 8 years after they were first accused of the Southern Strategy), and even there he uses scare quotes, because again, the Southern Strategy is an accusation, not a Republican invention.

Lee Atwater is a turd, whose thesis in that interview is that southerners in the 80s weren't racist. I've written longer posts than this one about just that interview. Atwater was a teenager in a garage band when the idea of the Southern Strategy hit the public, and when asked in this interview almost 2 decades later, he threw 2 decades worth of politicians under the bus to say "we don't do that now", which is to say he had no first-hand knowledge of anyone employing the Southern Strategy, and he likely had absorbed the idea from 19 years of media BS.

Speaking of not actually witnessing anything, Ken Mehlman was born in 1966. He had no political position until 1994, and that was just in a congressional district until he was brought onto the Bush campaign in 2000. He can't tell you the Southern Strategy was a real thing employed by Republicans, he wasn't there to possibly witness that, he was apologizing for misdeeds that the media had been telling him occurred for literally his entire life. This man is a victim of the propaganda as much as all of you, and in no way evidence of what occurred before his time.

So their evidence out of Republican mouths is half just acknowledging the Democratic accusation, and half totally anachronistic nonsense.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

If true, then it should be easy for the republicans to woo back Black voters.

And they can't, because they're racist.

 

[Seanchaidh]

And I'm better at it. Much, much better at it.

I'm sure you are. And you're still wrong.

That is not saying that Republicans employed "the Southern Strategy", only that they failed to dispel the image that they were.

Allowing for that image to propagate as well as pursuing the political choices that allowed that image to propagate enamored white racists. Based on this admission alone we can conclude that the Republicans did in fact employ the Southern Strategy. You've basically said as much.

 

[Avnger]

If true, then it should be easy for the republicans to woo back Black voters.

And they can't, because they're racist.

No, no, no.

As Tstorm has clearly said above, Republicans are not racist. The fact that the policies they support and rhetoric they use is identical to that racists would and is cheered by openly racist individuals and organizations is merely coincidence....

 

[tstorm823]

If true, then it should be easy for the republicans to woo back Black voters.

And they can't, because they're racist.

There is more reason to call Donald Trump racist than possibly any other person in national Republican politics in recent memory, and he made substantial gains with black voters. Black Americans originally flipped to the Democratic Party in the era where Republicans were fighting to end segregation and Democrats were fighting to keep it. FDR famously rejected an anti-lynching bill, despite his wife supporting it, but it's that era where black voters swapped parties in large numbers. You can't look at history and reasonably conclude the black community has voted based on who is or isn't racist for the last century.

Allowing for that image to propagate as well as pursuing the political choices that allowed that image to propagate enamored white racists. Based on this admission alone we can conclude that the Republicans did in fact employ the Southern Strategy. You've basically said as much.

Democrats forced it to propagate. To this day, they claim every policy disagreement between the parties is racism, and they had and have a massive media empire with which to push their claims. The only "political choice" made by Republicans that allowed the image to propagate is not conceding the entire country to the Democrats whims (or bombing every newspaper, since you might personally count that as an option).

 

[Seanchaidh]

Democrats forced it to propagate. To this day, they claim every policy disagreement between the parties is racism, and they had and have a massive media empire with which to push their claims. The only "political choice" made by Republicans that allowed the image to propagate is not conceding the entire country to the Democrats whims (or bombing every newspaper, since you might personally count that as an option).

Willie Horton.

 

[tstorm823]

Willie Horton.

Willie Horton robbed a man, and after that man cooperated and handed over his money, he and his accomplices stabbed the guy to death and shoved his body in a trash can. He was sentenced to life without parole. He was let out temporarily on a furlough program, at which time he ran, attacked a couple, stabbing and tying up the man while he raped the woman twice in front of him.

Horton was not meant to be included with that program, but a judge ruled that the law didn't explicitly exclude 1st degree murderers, so it wouldn't exclude him. Republicans tried to amend the bill to explicitly exclude first degree murderers, and Michael Dukakis vetoed it, allowing the second crime to happen.

Dukakis used executive power to put literal murderers out on the street, and a horrible crime being committed was the result. That is a 100% valid thing to criticize, that ad would have still existed if Horton was white, and the American public agreed with the criticism because the story of Willie Horton put a huge dent in the Dukakis' campaign. The accusation of racism was a campaign tactic intended to dig Dukakis out of that hole. You are buying into the Democrats' 30 year old campaign tactics as your source of historical fact.

 

[Agema]

There is more reason to call Donald Trump racist than possibly any other person in national Republican politics in recent memory,

 

[Buyetyen]

Willie Horton robbed a man, and after that man cooperated and handed over his money, he and his accomplices stabbed the guy to death and shoved his body in a trash can. He was sentenced to life without parole. He was let out temporarily on a furlough program, at which time he ran, attacked a couple, stabbing and tying up the man while he raped the woman twice in front of him.

Horton was not meant to be included with that program, but a judge ruled that the law didn't explicitly exclude 1st degree murderers, so it wouldn't exclude him. Republicans tried to amend the bill to explicitly exclude first degree murderers, and Michael Dukakis vetoed it, allowing the second crime to happen.

Dukakis used executive power to put literal murderers out on the street, and a horrible crime being committed was the result. That is a 100% valid thing to criticize, that ad would have still existed if Horton was white, and the American public agreed with the criticism because the story of Willie Horton put a huge dent in the Dukakis' campaign. The accusation of racism was a campaign tactic intended to dig Dukakis out of that hole. You are buying into the Democrats' 30 year old campaign tactics as your source of historical fact.

When someone brings up the racist Willie Horton ad, the correct response is not to double down and insist that the racism was the right thing to do.

 

[Specter Von Baren]

Again, I've been making this argument for several times as long as Candace Owens has been a conservative. And I'm better at it. Much, much better at it.

Let's look at this "fact check". First, you need to keep this clearly in your mind: "the Southern Strategy" is not a Republican term. It is not words Republicans have ever used to describe their own actions. "The Southern Strategy" is an accusation by Democrats that Republicans were pushing racial politics to win in the southern states. When Republicans are quoted about "the Southern Strategy" in that article, they are either being asked by Democrat-friendly media about that exact phrase, or they are specifically referring to the public controversy. Look at these quotes:

"There’s a total fear of what’s called the Southern strategy. Blacks understand that their wellbeing is being sacrificed to political gain. There has to be some moral leadership from the president on the race question, and there just hasn’t been any." - He's not talking about Republicans using the southern strategy. He's saying black voters are afraid of what is called the Southern strategy. Like, the actual quote is "The way I see the black vote now, there's a total fear..." Politifact wants to make it seem like he was revealing Republican secret strategies, but he was referring directly to the public image of Republicans being propagated by Democrats, and he believed Nixon did not display the moral leadership to counter that perception. That is not saying that Republicans employed "the Southern Strategy", only that they failed to dispel the image that they were.

"SOUTHERN STRATEGY — we flat out invited the kind of political battle that ultimately erupted when we named a Democrat-turned-Republican conservative from South Carolina. This confirmed the Southern strategy just at a time when it was being nationally debated," Alexander wrote. Again, this is not acknowledgement of the existence of a Southern Strategy employed by Republicans, but rather Nixon asked him why the nomination failed, and Alexander answered that he nominated a guy from South Carolina while being accused of courting southern racists. He's not saying Nixon meant to invite the controversy on purpose, he's saying he should have known better.

Nixon strategist Kevin Phillips openly discussed the Southern strategy in a newspaper article in 1973: "Some pretty horrible stuff." Well, Kevin Philips connection to the Republican party is not particularly deep. He's famous only for suggesting Republicans should appeal to racists, which was hardly innovative since the accusation of racism had already been major factor in the campaign 4 years prior. He worked on only the Nixon campaign where he lost the South to the Dixiecrats, before leaving Republican politics to be a media commentator (the period these statements were written), and left the Republican Party, and eventually became an outright critic of Republicans. Altogether, these were statements published after he quit working for the Republicans describing what he thought they ought to be doing (implying they weren't 8 years after they were first accused of the Southern Strategy), and even there he uses scare quotes, because again, the Southern Strategy is an accusation, not a Republican invention.

Lee Atwater is a turd, whose thesis in that interview is that southerners in the 80s weren't racist. I've written longer posts than this one about just that interview. Atwater was a teenager in a garage band when the idea of the Southern Strategy hit the public, and when asked in this interview almost 2 decades later, he threw 2 decades worth of politicians under the bus to say "we don't do that now", which is to say he had no first-hand knowledge of anyone employing the Southern Strategy, and he likely had absorbed the idea from 19 years of media BS.

Speaking of not actually witnessing anything, Ken Mehlman was born in 1966. He had no political position until 1994, and that was just in a congressional district until he was brought onto the Bush campaign in 2000. He can't tell you the Southern Strategy was a real thing employed by Republicans, he wasn't there to possibly witness that, he was apologizing for misdeeds that the media had been telling him occurred for literally his entire life. This man is a victim of the propaganda as much as all of you, and in no way evidence of what occurred before his time.

So their evidence out of Republican mouths is half just acknowledging the Democratic accusation, and half totally anachronistic nonsense.

You know everyone here is just going to give you the reply of "No you're a poo poo head because this person says so." and not actually engage your arguments right? Unless it's Eacaraxe or Agema (When he's motivated for it).

 

[Buyetyen]

You know everyone here is just going to give you the reply of "No you're a poo poo head because this person says so." and not actually engage your arguments right? Unless it's Eacaraxe or Agema (When he's motivated for it).

If people want their arguments to be taken seriously, they should probably stop talking bullshit.

 

[Seanchaidh]

You can't look at history and reasonably conclude the black community has voted based on who is or isn't racist for the last century.

This part is true- sort of. But it is because both parties are racist, not neither. And because FDR's economic program, while it was marred by racist implementation in some of its aspects, yet managed to deliver substantial gains to the poor and workers of all races. Nowadays the Democrats are usually further away from overt racism most probably as a reaction to having significant Black support. I'm not going to say either capitalist trashbag party is committed to antiracism, but the Republican party in recent memory has offered less than nothing to the Black proletariat, and the Black bourgeoisie (such as it is) is rightfully offended by Republican stoking of racial animus and friendliness with obviously (if not always avowedly) racist media figures such as Rush Limbaugh.

the American public agreed with the criticism because the story of Willie Horton put a huge dent in the Dukakis' campaign.

Oh, well, if the American public agrees with it then it must not be racist after all!

 

[tstorm823]

You know everyone here is just going to give you the reply of "No you're a poo poo head because this person says so." and not actually engage your arguments right? Unless it's Eacaraxe or Agema (When he's motivated for it).

I enjoy arguing. I'd prefer with engagement, but even just a monologue of the knowledge in my head serves to refine my thoughts.

When someone brings up the racist Willie Horton ad, the correct response is not to double down and insist that the racism was the right thing to do.

Laws that give convicted murderers opportunity to rape women are bad. Dukakis would have still been completely wrong to veto the change if Horton didn't exist. You want to call that racist, it says only things about you.

 

[Buyetyen]

Oh, well, if the American public agrees with it then it must not be racist after all!

This is something I see a lot. Apparently conservatives are under the impression that nothing can be racist so long as it sides with them in a national election.

Laws that give convicted murderers opportunity to rape women are bad. Dukakis would have still been completely wrong to veto the change if Horton didn't exist. You want to call that racist, it says only things about you.

No, the way you do it makes you racist. Also lol at you pretending you give a shit about rape victims. No, the Willie Horton ad was never about protecting women. It was about scaring the shit out of credulous white people like you, and it worked. Because America is pretty fucking racist.

 

[Specter Von Baren]

If people want their arguments to be taken seriously, they should probably stop talking bullshit.

You're hardly one to talk.

 

[Buyetyen]

You're hardly one to talk.

I don't give a shit if you take me seriously. Tstorm does, thus it's a problem for him.

 

[tstorm823]

No, the way you do it makes you racist. Also lol at you pretending you give a shit about rape victims. No, the Willie Horton ad was never about protecting women. It was about scaring the shit out of credulous white people like you, and it worked. Because America is pretty fucking racist.

If the ad was about getting racists to vote Republican, why would the Democrats respond with accusations of racism? Racism is not a good campaign tactic, calling the other guy racist is a good campaign tactic.

Additionally, there is no evidence the ad was inspired by racism. Nor is there evidence that people's response to the ad was determined by their racism. It is only your view of the world, the patterns you look for in everything, that makes you believe what you do about it.

I don't give a shit if you take me seriously. Tstorm does, thus it's a problem for him.

Not quite sure what you mean here. Do you imagine your opinion is important to me? Is that why you've been frequently responding to me with exceptionally low-effort responses? It isn't a problem for me. I like being here and arguing.

 

[Buyetyen]

If the ad was about getting racists to vote Republican, why would the Democrats respond with accusations of racism?

I have no idea what point you think you're making and I'm betting you don't either.

Racism is not a good campaign tactic, calling the other guy racist is a good campaign tactic.

The success of the Southern Strategy shows otherwise.

Additionally, there is no evidence the ad was inspired by racism. Nor is there evidence that people's response to the ad was determined by their racism. It is only your view of the world, the patterns you look for in everything, that makes you believe what you do about it.

Complains that people claim to know his motives. Tries to psycho-analyze people who disagree with him.

Not quite sure what you mean here. Do you imagine your opinion is important to me? Is that why you've been frequently responding to me with exceptionally low-effort responses? It isn't a problem for me. I like being here and arguing.

Me personally? Probably not. Other people in general? Definitely, otherwise you wouldn't be whining so much about how we have you figured out.

 

[Seanchaidh]

Racism is not a good campaign tactic, calling the other guy racist is a good campaign tactic.

Mmm, yes, that's why William F. Weld won the 2020 Republican nomination by saying "Donald Trump is a raging racist."
And why Lindsey Graham, who in 2015 called Trump a "race-baiting, xenophobic, religious bigot" also won the 2016 nomination.