Why does America fear/distrust it's government?

[orangeban]

Lastly, free speech. I've often said that free speech is overrated, and often the world views America's views as very one-sided and jaded at times. Take the Westboro baptist church, KKK, Brooklyn street gangs, LA street gangs, Neo-nazi's, church of scientology-- All born from the 'gift of free speech.' I think you'll all agree that America has constitutionally shot themselves in the foot. Which they can't help now of course, it's forever embedded into the American constitution. But if I had to chose, I'd of set down some regulations on the whole free speech things. To maximize the amount of free speech for just reasons, and minimize the amount of hate and stupidity.

I appreciate and respect your ability to speak your mind, but get out of my country, Fascist. (Assuming, of course, you're in my country. Ahem.)
Sure, regulating what people can and cannot say seems like a great idea when it's things we don't agree with, but what happens when something close and important to you comes under scrutiny? What would you say, then?

Information and ideas should always be open for free exchange, no matter what we personally think of them, or even if they actually are of dubious morality. It's better that free and open discourse of ideas be able to be discussed and promoted publicly, no matter what they are-- keep it as the enemy you know. Ban the exchange of certain beliefs and ideas, and you only push it further underground, where it's potentially under even less scrutiny.

Our ability to have free and open discourse is one of the few true hallmarks we have left. Take that away, and we're only a few steps away from the likes of North Korea, Syria, Lybia, Saudi Arabia, and others who seek to control their populaces thoughts and beliefs. And that....should scare the shit out of anyone.

ed-- We already teeter on the brink of collapsing into a fundamentalist ideology if the Religious Right movement gains much more steam. Regulating thoughts and ideas is just one more way to push us closer to that edge.

I wasn't saying that you'd completely police free speech. I'm saying you need to police the extremists that cause real danger to the people around them. Physically and mentally, as the pen is mightier than the sword, words can influence both terrible and great things in people, I just want to help minimize the terrible part. If you want to call me a fascist for wanting all organizations based around hatred, violence, lies, gone... Then yeah I'm a fascist.

Yup, I basically agree. He's not saying America should be like North Korea, but like Britain, where we have laws about inciting hate and violence. Which is why we banned the WBC from coming over here. Not really fascist, more common sense. (or Political Correctness gawn mad! Depends on your view)

Here's a question about freedom of speech: Should we restrict it? Before you answer consider this:
Unrestricted Freedom of Speech says I can stand in Hyde Park during a BNP rally or whatever and rile them into a riot against foreigners and then (presuming I didn't take part in the actual riot other than causing it) not get charged for anything.

Unrestricted Freedom of Speech says that I can go into an airport, point at a person holding a briefcase and shout, "He's got a bomb!" without getting in trouble. it also says I can go into a skyscraper and shout "Fire!"

Here's the real interesting thing that people don't think about that much: Unrestricted Freedom of Speech says that I can say whatever I like about anyone, no libel laws. Gandhi? Killed and raped people, hey why you angry? I can say what I want. And remember, it's not just me who can say stuff like that, it's everyone, including news corporations. News corporations can now also publish any stories, no matter if it's false or if the person the story concerns doesn't want the story published.

 

[orangeban]

Americans ***** that they don't want the government running things, but the fact is that the government is the sole organization in their entire fucking country with an interest in actually helping them, as opposed to screwing them for all that they're worth.

I mean, if you don't want healthcare in the hands of the government, then no one at all is going to take it up. Look, fuck the people who are too short-sighted to see this. I love America, but it can really drive me up the wall sometimes.

Not everything the government does is done to hurt you. No, the government does not exist specifically to screw you. In fact, it's about the only thing out there trying to help you.

Suggesting A, that the government is trying to help people, and that B, no one else is.

Sure, there are certainly some good people in Washington committed to helping people, but a vast majority of them are career politicians through and through who care only about lining their pockets and getting reelected. You wonder why we don't trust these people?

There are, however a large number of charity organizations in this country who do good work at no charge.

Frankly what we need is not a government run healthcare system, but stricter laws ensuring insurance companies can't try to weasel out of legitimate claims (otherwise we end up with an Allison Theus situation). Medical operations often don't cost people a dime here when the people we're paying to help us are legitimate, it's just that too few of them are legitimate.

Okay, I'm riled up now, so one more thing. What the FUCK is with your tax rate? You guys wonder why your economy is fucked? The highest tax bracket kicks in at over a third of a million dollars, and it's only thirty five fucking per cent! You wonder why your economy is fucked? It's because you're fucking it! The media feeds your population a load of horseshit, and they swallow it whole

Our economy is fucked because our current politicians can't stop spending money they don't have, not because we don't tax people enough. To the contrary, I agree with what Churchill said: "I submit that a nation trying to tax itself into prosperity is like a man trying to stand in a bucket and lift himself up by the handle." Bear in mind - things you pay taxes for, such as college, medical care, etc., our government doesn't pay for that. Instead, we pay for those things to private institutions that don't fall under government control.

That's because conservative groups in the US have spent decades convincing the population that government is always incompetent.

Well, if the current political climate has shown us anything, it's that they're really not wrong in that regard...

Hah, it could be worse. I mean, just look at the previous eight years of government - now that's real government incompetence!

Haha, no disagreements on that. Although personally I have to say Bush did a better job than Obama has done so far (he did manage to prevent any post-9/11 terrorist attacks on American soil and brought gas prices down to a reasonable level and kept them there till the end of his term), but that's just one guy's opinion...

Stop moaning about gas prices! They're still nowhere near Britain's and we pay much higher tax than you! Seriously, they're not that bad.

 

[VanTesla]

I was taught by my parents that the Republican party is a team of evil, lying, hypocritical douchebags who constantly try to wiggle around the rules that were made when the nation was formed. They are currently behind the wheel of Congress.

That is a extreme view... Many members of my family are Republican, Democrat, or neither. We all get along and my Uncle who is Republican, is very open minded on both sides of issues, we agree and disagree on many issues, but we both agree that both dems and republicans in office are just that in name and not actual philosophy. Mostly none of today's Republicans and Democrats in office are what they where a couple decades ago, their ideals have changed back and forth constantly, they are just labels now...

Republicans that praise Reagan as some kind of saint, would never vote a person like him in today... Both sides of the extemes have warped views on history.

 

[Mcupobob]

I fear the government because their only human and given more power than I'm comfortable with. Also the government is about as getting things done Legless monkey.

 

[theultimateend]

Nixon and Watergate started the Mistrust of the government in large scale.

Fox and similar for profit news stations did the rest of the work.

Fun fact: The basis for Fox News was drafted within the Nixon Administration. More connected than you think!

Wow. If that's true that's pretty neat.

Bad kinda neat, but neat.

I'm a little surprised that folks think American's have always hated the US government.

It was more or less worshipped quite a few times up till Watergate.

The current owner of Fox News drafted the idea for an establishment conservative news outlet that would provide people with a means of attacking left wing politicians.

It's postmodernism at work. In our current culture, the illusion of Big Brother and the Lizardmen holds more weight because it's everywhere and infinitely more exploitable. Now every one is a conspiracy theorist and everything is a sign. Nixon and Kissinger did indeed ruin things. Reagan made them worse. Now the only plausible answer is that the government is to blame for everything, and yet at the same time, everyone agrees that the government has no power and the corporations rule. Blame everyone; do nothing.

That's pretty interesting insight.

I'm personally what I like to call an "Optimistic Realist".

Right now does kinda suck, the food health in the US is below 3rd world (we have tons of calories but very little real food currently), politics is a little retarded, and most states are having issues.

But I look at it like the teenage years, we just have a little bit of a retarded period and then we look back on it in the near future and laugh at how stupid we were and are happy we've gotten past the problem.

I'm not convinced that this is a downward spiral, doesn't seem to be.

 

[Agarth]

I think that the American fear of it's own damned government is just caused by stupidity and paranoia that, when combined, becomes an unstoppable force of ignorance that slapping someone and saying, "No, the government does not have security cameras hidden in TVs. They couldn't possibly observe that many screens!" cannot fix. Trust me I live surrounded by morons like that. It makes me almost not want to even live in America.

 

[Jeff Loper]

They seem to be in the process controlling almost everything else between Local, State, & National Regulations. If I wanted to be completely controlled I'd point my ship toward the Delta Quadrant & probably wind up like the Hansens.

 

[TheScientificIssole]

I fear no government and trust no government. I wait only for the dawn of our true Illuminati/Lizard people overlords. And I accept them.

 

[player3141]

The government has a tendency to screw things up and they don't like to leave things the way it is. When the government involved, it usually ends with the problem still existing and a lot of money wasted. Their solutions are generally along the lines of "GIVE TEHM MOAR MONEY!", "raise taxes again", or "we should have a law preventing this".

I was taught by my parents that the Republican party is a team of evil, lying, hypocritical douchebags who constantly try to wiggle around the rules that were made when the nation was formed.

This accurately describes all politicians.

 

[Vee.]

The constitution states that a person is allowed free speech within reason. Anyone here in the U.S. who yells "it's a bomb!" and causes panic in a situation that doesn't call for it would be arrested.

On a different note, I'd say people distrust the government because of the way politicians are trying to pass off politics nowadays. For example: Obama's health care plan was legally over 70% unconstitutional because of all the extra gunk that was written in the bill. It was labeled a health care bill, but it had a bunch of unrelated mess about missile defense grids for other countries or something.

The existence of people like Bill O'Reilly doesn't help much either.

Edit: This was supposed to be a reply to Orangeban. I don't know why it didn't come out that way.

 

[Comrade_Beric]

The rest of the world fears/distrusts the American government, why should Americans be any different?

 

[jackknife402]

Sorry, this kind of turned into a rant.

It's this attitude of "Screw the government" that most Americans seem to have. They object to paying even reasonable taxes, despise their government, whoever's in charge, and fight every single piece of legislation like their lives rely upon it.

To an extent, they have a point, in that the system is so ridden by corruption and incompetence, but then the problem becomes the society surrounding the government, and the people that are running it.

Americans ***** that they don't want the government running things, but the fact is that the government is the sole organization in their entire fucking country with an interest in actually helping them, as opposed to screwing them for all that they're worth.

I mean, if you don't want healthcare in the hands of the government, then no one at all is going to take it up. Look, fuck the people who are too short-sighted to see this. I love America, but it can really drive me up the wall sometimes.

Not everything the government does is done to hurt you. No, the government does not exist specifically to screw you. In fact, it's about the only thing out there trying to help you.

Okay, I'm riled up now, so one more thing. What the FUCK is with your tax rate? You guys wonder why your economy is fucked? The highest tax bracket kicks in at over a third of a million dollars, and it's only thirty five fucking per cent! You wonder why your economy is fucked? It's because you're fucking it! The media feeds your population a load of horseshit, and they swallow it whole.

Please, America. I love you guys, but stop bitching about your government, and work with them, for once. They are, theoretically at least, you, and yet you fight them every step of the way.

No, blind obedience to whatever the government wants is not good, but neither is fighting them every step of the way. There is a middle ground, believe it or not.

The reason why we're fighting government sanctioned healthcare is much are as follows: After the next five years everyone has to be insured, those whom do not want to be insured must pay a fine. The government program was promised to lower rates and overall spending, not skyrocketting spending another trillion U.S. dollars in a single year and it hasn't even been put into effect yet.

Those are the only points I care about, and they're the two points that piss me off the most. They're mandating citizens to purchase health insurance, and as to cutting costs that went out the window three months after the bloody thing passed.

Talk to employers, most are afraid to hire because they don't know what sort of expense is going to be breathing down their necks from one month to the next.

The sort of government I want is the sort of government that does not infringe upon it's people's rights. A government's duty is only to be a coalition for the protection of it's people; Be it by law or by military strength. It is not supposed to buy up stock in failing companies, print excess amounts of paper "money" to "boost" the economy, and it is not supposed to force people to buy what they don't want.

That's why I'm unhappy with my government, that and it pulls funds from our social security system and uses it for other pet projects and allows idiots to buy Mt. Dew, chips (or crisps to you UKers) and TV dinners on government aide programs while the idiots spend the money they do make on alcohol and tobacco.

In my state we have a state run food program for mothers and children where they are given a set list of items of what they can have, cereals, eggs, milk, fruits and veggies. That is how our bloody food stamp program should be, not some "Here's a card for $500 a month, go buy party food with it then whine like a ***** to the store clerk when you're out of money for actual food."

 

[t3h br0th3r]

Please remember this Europe:

America was founded by mildly insane regious fanatics who forced African slaves to do all the hard laobur as soon as they could get them.

We made England barely any money and went to battle against them when they tried to make the colonies break even with them.

a few years later we came up with some BS called Manifest destiny as an excuse for genocide.

a few years after that we won WWII witn a RL Deus Ex Machina


Yes: We American's are straight up crazy at times.

 

[Pyroguekenesis]

You serious?
After seeing the amount of **** the American Government pulls off, I am not suprised. Have you seen some of the news lately? There was a protest at Jefferson's memorial for free speech and people were arrested for dancing there. There was also an incident where the...actually I'll just link them. =_=; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZ0bPt0fQV4

Like for instance, I do not truly believe that Obama Bin Laden caused 9/11, was killed etc.

And then, you have the media. Bloody idiots like Bill O'Reilly who can't report the 'news' anymore cause it's been so censored that you have to go online find stuff out.

In my case, take a look at the Australian government. We have a leader who backstabbed her way into the position, then she went back on all of her promises on this Carbon Tax thing (which I would agree on, if I could trust the government to be wise with it's use. But now I did some extra researching we have screwed the planet past saving point, so I dont care anymore).

So, in conclusion. I do not trust any kind of government or law.
"When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty." - Thomas Jefferson.

Viva la revolution!

 

[idarkphoenixi]

You'd be amazing how effective Fox "News" propaganda can be...

 

[Starke]

To quote my favorite Author, Mr. George Orwell.
"Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutly"
Idk, that help?

Orwell may have agreed with it, but it was Lord Acton chewing out British Parlement who originated that aphorism.

 

[Lord Beautiful]

I'll tell you why just as soon as you give me a valid reason to not distrust them.

 

[Dyme]

In a democracy, you should distrust your government.

But of course health care (health, life) is something you want your state/government to care about. Just like the army. I wouldn't want a private capitalist company having an army.
The government cares about me, because they want my vote every 4 years.
Private companies just want money. No morals, no humanity involved here. Sounds pretty bad for health care.

 

[Pyroguekenesis]

I almost forgot, Bill-s-978. That is all. Stupidity or totalitarianism I don't know.

 

[zHellas]

Rant-Snip

...Hi clone of me.

*high fives you*

OT:

What Bobbity said.