Why does everybody love incest now?

SilentPony

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I wonder though, and Im being serious here, if that, for lack of a better word, romantic take on step-family incest causes problems. And not the obvious one of popping a boner whenever your stepmom does the laundry, but the idea men and women can't have intimate, loving relationships without sex.
That a plutonic loving friendship, even among people who share a mother/son relationship, or sister/brother, or father/daughter, can't exist because if they're both attractive, they need to fuck. That sex is the natural and inevitable next step in having an intimate relationship with someone, regardless of the already established familial ties.
It may tie into the incel culture and men feeling entitled to women. Like some incel is out and about and a woman thanks him for holding the door open, and he's like "Last time I saw a dude open a door for a woman, she dragged him into the bathroom and blew him! Im about to get laid!" and when he doesn't, its the woman's fault for going off script.
Same thing with incest porn. An incel lets his stepsister borrow his car to go to the mall with friends. Well...we all know how she's SUPPOSED to pay him back. And rather than letting her borrow the car out of the kindness of his heart or just asking her to pick him up McDonalds on the way home, he's now angry because she broke what he thought was the implied contract of sex for car.
 
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Terminal Blue

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I wonder though, and Im being serious here, if that, for lack of a better word, romantic take on step-family incest causes problems. And not the obvious one of popping a boner whenever your stepmom does the laundry, but the idea men and women can't have intimate, loving relationships without sex.
I think that's absolutely right.

However, I think we also need to bear in mind that the context is porn. In porn, everyone is expected to start fucking at a moment's notice, so it might just be that the idea of two unrelated teenagers sleeping in the same bed without having a preestablished interest in mashing their crotches together is difficult to swallow in the context of porn. Again though, I increasingly think most thinks marketed as quasi-incest fantasies are just using it for SEO and marketing purposes. If a scene involves characters sleeping in the same bed, it's fairly easy to just slap on a title like "I fucked my step-sister during a sleepover", as opposed to "I had totally normal and uneventful sex with my girlfriend and we sleep together because we're adults who share a house".

I also think part of the fantasy in these cases is often that the man isn't explicitly topping. Sometimes he absolutely is, like that weird rapey genre of family members getting "stuck" in obviously escapable situations, but generally it seems to be a fantasy of being with someone who is more experienced and able to lead the sexual encounter and overcome any nervousness or hesitancy on the part of the POV character. In that case, I think the quasi-incest serves to explain that hesitancy. Since men tend to imagine themselves as horny 24/7, it might be harder for audiences to swallow a male character who exhibits reluctance at being propositioned or touched by an unrelated hot girl than by a family member.

All in all though, yeah, it does seem kind of weird and potentially unhealthy to me. There definitely is an overlapping genre of straight porn about opposite sex friends having sex for the first time, but it seems to be a lot smaller and less specific. Again, I wonder if that has to do with the expectations of porn as a genre, and the audience's difficulty accepting that two attractive people in porn didn't immediately have sex as soon as they met.

To what extent that translates into real life I don't know, but a lot of men in particular do seem to struggle with maintaining platonic cross-sex friendships. That probably includes me to be honest, although not for the same reasons.

That a plutonic loving friendship, even among people who share a mother/son relationship, or sister/brother, or father/daughter, can't exist because if they're both attractive, they need to fuck. That sex is the natural and inevitable next step in having an intimate relationship with someone, regardless of the already established familial ties.
In terms of my personal experience, this is really bound up with ADHD. I've realized that I seem to struggle to distinguish between emotional and physical intimacy and it's something I've been trying to work through with myself. That said, I do think there's nothing inherently wrong with having sex with your friends, and I don't regret most of the times it's happened. I think the rigid expectation that romantic and platonic love be separate (and that romantic love is superior to platonic love) kind of just results in a lot of crappy friendships.

The gays are often much better at this, I think. There seems to be a more common understanding in gay culture of the fact that you can passionately, actively love your friends rather than merely appreciating their presence. It's why I've never really identified with the concept of being "polyamorous" even though I sometimes use it to describe myself, because most poly people I know still seem to exhibit this idea that romantic love is special and set aside, and I don't think it is. It's okay to go back and forth, it's okay to have sex just for fun or to alleviate boredom or to feel a bit better about yourself. There are unhealthy extremes to all these things, but they're not as difficult to avoid as our culture likes to pretend.

Same thing with incest porn. An incel lets his stepsister borrow his car to go to the mall with friends. Well...we all know how she's SUPPOSED to pay him back. And rather than letting her borrow the car out of the kindness of his heart or just asking her to pick him up McDonalds on the way home, he's now angry because she broke what he thought was the implied contract of sex for car.
I think of this kind of thing as "capitalism porn" and yeah, I find it really weird.

It reminds me of the scene in Use of Weapons where the drone unblocks all the porn channels and the sanitized image of this alien society falls away to reveal the absolute sadism underneath. There's a psychosexual dimension to politics and economics that becomes really, really gross when a society is as deeply hierarchical and exploitative as ours.

Speaking of boredom and compulsion, I did not mean for this post to get so long..
 
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SilentPony

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Speaking of boredom and compulsion, I did not mean for this post to get so long..
See I think the social interrelationship implications of wide-spread porn, and its subgenres, is a very interesting conversation. Not the whole giggle at the peepee shit or some prudish shit, but the real talk about what unhealthy implications there are in young boys and girls growing up watching porn that glorifies taboo subjects, like incest, or sexual violence, to fetishizes basic thinks like black people as "ebony" and older people as "Milf/Dilf". Basic human concepts we should all be aware of and accept, like people with darker skin than whites having sex, or people older than 18-24 having sex are not fetishes and off-normal stuff.
And the whole idea men and women can't be close without sex. Men have a difficult time differentiating between plutonic love and sexual love, and women who want to court a man find it difficult to get him to realize it even with flirting and hints, because porn has shown when a girl is interested, she simply takes off your pants and starts sucking. Anything less doesn't register. And in part porn is to blame.

These are interesting ideas worth discussing.

Also peepee. Hehehe.
 

Agema

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There's often some element of upward mobility, with the "sister" usually being implied to be more popular or sexually experienced.
I noted this. I think the idea of learning sex in a "safe" or established emotional environment (notwithstanding the fact that in the real world incestuous sex suggests anything but a safe environment) is a very interesting perspective, but I cannot help but wonder if this also identifies a submissive element to incest porn as well. Although perhaps some element of submission (or inferiority) is almost inherent to a situation where someone is a learner.
 

Terminal Blue

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I noted this. I think the idea of learning sex in a "safe" or established emotional environment (notwithstanding the fact that in the real world incestuous sex suggests anything but a safe environment) is a very interesting perspective, but I cannot help but wonder if this also identifies a submissive element to incest porn as well. Although perhaps some element of submission (or inferiority) is almost inherent to a situation where someone is a learner.
There was some research into sexual fantasies which I remember reading about a while back, and the key finding is that actually most humans enjoy "submissive" fantasies. Men are slightly less into submissive fantasies than women, which may have something to do with social pressure, but if we accept that our strongest sexual fantasies are those we form during adolescence it makes total sense that most people would relate strongly to submissive fantasies. Most people's early sexual fantasies will routinely involve people older than them, they may even involve porn actors, so in this imaginary scenario the older person has an implied power within the dynamic because they're assumed to be more experienced. I think that carries over into adulthood more than people are sometimes prepared to admit.

I think it's also because people mostly want to be topped. Straight men might like to imagine themselves as sexually generous because it ties into that competitive desire to be good at sex, but they still mostly enjoy the idea of being topped. There are really obvious gender differences in the way men and women top in straight porn, and the idea of men power bottoming is far more normalized, but the simple fact remains that having stuff done to you (provided its done well) is usually more enjoyable than doing stuff to someone else, so the ideal world of fantasy will tend to revolve around being topped, and being topped implies being with someone who knows how to top.

I think most men today are fairly comfortable with that fact. As a culture we seem to be less into the idea of women being innocent and virginal creatures who exist for men to do stuff to (not to say that fantasy doesn't exist, it just seems to be less common) and more appreciative of the fact that women with sexual experience are more desirable and more able to give pleasure. Porn in particular tends to really emphasize the idea of women's sexual competence as a desirable trait. It's one of the few ways I actually think porn is probably changing sexual culture for the better.

Way back in 1992, sociologist Anthony Giddens theorized that the cultural ideal of an intimate relationships was becoming and would continue to become based on the expectation that everyone develop and possess a knowledge of how to give and achieve sexual pleasure. I think it's one area in which he was broadly correct. The fact that I used the term "upward mobility" in that sense would probably have been very, very strange to anyone living in the 19th century, or even most of the 20th century. I think porn actors and the kinds of sexually available and sexually experienced characters they play are increasingly accepted in a straightforward as models of the kinds of women who are most desirable, rather than being a source of shame for themselves and for men who experience attraction to them, and frankly that seems more healthy and generous than the beliefs about women that existed before.
 

Gof1138

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I agree it is pretty weird, especially step-sibling stuff. More power to the people that like it but it for sure isn't for me.
 

Gamertrek

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I do not want to go into thesis mode on this subject

Because of the equality of the LGBT where in the past the term pedophile, pervert, strictly referenced a homosexual.

The adult industry had to steer clear of specific terms and type of content they promote.

You want anything good you have to go back to 2004.

It has nothing to do with Obama and racism towards people of African decent. It purely has to do with that mentality.

This is why much of the material out there are women who have been doing it since they were born. They have families that have been in this business and way of life and they are going to continue doing this even as grannies handing down the torch to the next generation. They have properties, farmland, businesses, all privately owned asides for the time-shares and rentals.

.....................

Oolong is hidden nowadays. It is like how many topless dancers, will works as models, in more questionable content, and eventually become actresses, and news broadcasters into their older years. Just like how Ice-skaters and sports people become announcers. See naked-news series ( Both original Canadian airing and the privately produced series for instance.
 

Elvis Starburst

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I do not want to go into thesis mode on this subject

Because of the equality of the LGBT where in the past the term pedophile, pervert, strictly referenced a homosexual.

The adult industry had to steer clear of specific terms and type of content they promote.

You want anything good you have to go back to 2004.

It has nothing to do with Obama and racism towards people of African decent. It purely has to do with that mentality.

This is why much of the material out there are women who have been doing it since they were born. They have families that have been in this business and way of life and they are going to continue doing this even as grannies handing down the torch to the next generation. They have properties, farmland, businesses, all privately owned asides for the time-shares and rentals.

.....................

Oolong is hidden nowadays. It is like how many topless dancers, will works as models, in more questionable content, and eventually become actresses, and news broadcasters into their older years. Just like how Ice-skaters and sports people become announcers. See naked-news series ( Both original Canadian airing and the privately produced series for instance.

What.png
 
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Absent

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Oh I thought it would be a RE8 thread.