Really? 'Cause they seemed to work under the same principle in the games I've played. Of course I've only played the video games, not the actual tabletop game.bussinrounds said:
Why Does Magic Suck?
- Thread starter Soviet Heavy
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I must admit that when I first started playing fantasy games I found mage's rather intimidating because of this reason. However after trying it out a few times it wasn't that bad. Like a fighter you can still hit things until they die, you just need the spell rather than the weapon to do so. Same with healing and all that, just need spells rather than equipment.
canadamus_prime said:
Cast grease or web,either in whichever order suits the situation. Drop a torch on them. Early fireball - plus, they can't move. More accessible? Try making games that ALLOW for creativity with spells. Seriously, beyond fire, lightning, ice, poison and +12 toeyboff magic in video games is limited to boomstick and heal and buff. 4th edition d n d beautifully solves the melee issues while over complicating the really utilitarian magic visa vie "rituals" Some imagination and magic goes a long way once you look beyond the nuke spells.
READ the D n D players handbook. $th edition butchered magic, so try 3.5 but either way, it makes allowance for your own imagination to best combine effects of spells, and full descriptions are given.KissofKetchup said:
Why can't things just remain as they are? What's wrong with having mages be more complicated than the other classes?
What's complicated? When you buy a spell it says what it does, then you equip that spell, you press the button and then it does whatever it says it does and takes up an ammount of mana. If anything using physical weapons in is more complicated than the spell system.KissofKetchup said:
I noticed that too. Melee was awful in Divinity 2Dragonborne88 said:
But in general, yes! Casters are f***ing annoying to say the least. I get frustrated when playing casters each and every time in a variety of games.. Mana-this mana-that regen-mana mana mana mananananananana 'heal me heal me' STFU! Run away...run away..! I personally am just too unsophisticated to play a mage.. I just want to twat the thing in its face with my axe until one of us dies!!
But they have their purpose and its a damn good one! The mutha f***ing glass cannon! It takes more guts to play a Mage than a Warrior, More brains and more desire to unleash hell than any other class..
Sorry but making the caster class less complicated would make its destructive powers more accessable to those who dont deserve it.
I think in the end it boils down to the player and how they approach magic.
I used to think it sucked balls back when I was an avid MMO'er (until I get my new PC that was will become an am) because I could never micro-manage what I wanted to do and in turn micro-manage my mana pool. After approaching the issue in dragon age I found once you manage to figure out what mage type you want to play as it's relatively simple.
I myself am the support/healer type guy.
But it's a shame some games complicate how to use magic. I can remember back in runescape you'd need to craft runes and then more runes and buy some more to actually use a spell and that was expensive or time-consuming to do so making it simply more effective to use a bow or sword to kill the enemy .
Come to think of it back then I never noticed a healing spell for mage players... *shrugs*
at any rate I used to think it sucked but after awhile...it's ever so useful to have
I used to think it sucked balls back when I was an avid MMO'er (until I get my new PC that was will become an am) because I could never micro-manage what I wanted to do and in turn micro-manage my mana pool. After approaching the issue in dragon age I found once you manage to figure out what mage type you want to play as it's relatively simple.
I myself am the support/healer type guy.
But it's a shame some games complicate how to use magic. I can remember back in runescape you'd need to craft runes and then more runes and buy some more to actually use a spell and that was expensive or time-consuming to do so making it simply more effective to use a bow or sword to kill the enemy .
Come to think of it back then I never noticed a healing spell for mage players... *shrugs*
at any rate I used to think it sucked but after awhile...it's ever so useful to have
I agree with a few of the earlier comments, those who want to use the Mage will usually have the patience and know how to figure him out.
...unless you're in WoW, where you'll need 2 guildies at lvl 50+ to run your skinny excuse for a butt through everything until you hit 20, then just spam the retard out of PvP until you figure out which specialty you want. Or was that just how they always do it anyway??
...unless you're in WoW, where you'll need 2 guildies at lvl 50+ to run your skinny excuse for a butt through everything until you hit 20, then just spam the retard out of PvP until you figure out which specialty you want. Or was that just how they always do it anyway??
You could always expand the number of classes and in the process throw in another caster. One offensive with the odd self-preservation ability (kinda like WoW Mage), one defensive with the odd "not a lot of damage, not a lot of mana"/DoT or other Fire-and-Forget offensive ability (kinda like WoW Holy/Disc Priest). Or you skip the healing etc. and just go for elemental and mental abilities (with knockbacks, stuns etc. for survival) and balance the other classes to have better survivability on their own (like GW2 seems to be going for). Or you could make magic less unusual and have lots of different caster classes.
On the whole though, as long as you're getting 1-2 spells at a time and a decent interval inbetween it shouldn't be a problem. Make it clear what they do, and if there are specializations, make it clear what they do (Assassin from DA:O falls foul on this IMO) and how they could affect other abilities. WoW does this well.
Or you could of course go the DnD 3.5 route and have Wizards die if they sit down too fast for the first few levels and then go out hunting deities around level 10.
On the whole though, as long as you're getting 1-2 spells at a time and a decent interval inbetween it shouldn't be a problem. Make it clear what they do, and if there are specializations, make it clear what they do (Assassin from DA:O falls foul on this IMO) and how they could affect other abilities. WoW does this well.
Or you could of course go the DnD 3.5 route and have Wizards die if they sit down too fast for the first few levels and then go out hunting deities around level 10.
Hahaha, totally agree with you. Thats why I never got into 4th edition.RedEyesBlackGamer said:
To answer the OP, I dont think there is a real need to make mage classes simpler. Mage classes in RPGs generally have a higher learning curve than warriors/rogues, given the fact that a mage can fill so many different roles (healer, damager, controller, summoner, shape-shifter, etc.) There are even games where mages can fill the role of a melee character (in DA:O, you can become an arcane warrior, making you the equivalent of a shiny magic tank).
Simplifying mage class creates a situation where the work the player puts to a character is a fraction of the reward, as opposed to now when the work put into a mage generally breaks even with the reward. This is why the magic system in the fable series was kind of a downer for me. Yes it is very cool to fill up the screen with a fire/lightning spell, but it ends up taking what little challenge there was in the series and locking it in the basement to starve.
Making warriors/rogues more complicated... why the hell would you do such a thing? Why would a player want more steps in the process a smacking enemies in the face? Just as mages generally have a higher learning curve, warriors/rogues generally have a lower learning curve. Sure, there are various strategies they can use, but the goal of both is the same: insert sharp object into monster.
I suppose what I'm saying is leave it just as it is. Its not perfect, but it works well enough. If people dont want to think about the way they play, then they probably shouldnt have pick up an RPG in the first place.
honestly the mage might take more for a new person to figure out, just barely, but overall the mage is always overpowered, ALWAYS. so honestly they need to keep it how it is or get it more complicated if anything.
I think what everyone here using D&D comparisons need to remember is everyone has to participate in combat all the time and be EFFECTIVE at it. biding time until level gains are dead gone buried and better off without it the more games we can get to help in that regard. Being game breaking is no reward for being terrible early on, and every crappy fantasy trope that supports it needs to take a hike from games.
I might be a total nerd here but I love the complexity. Having multiple branches of spells to choose between, making your own style of fighting... It's the best!
urgh, am I the only one who hates with a passion magic systems that rely on "branches" and "trees"? Personally I think the best way to do magic in games is the original way, i.e. the D&D way, with levels and the ability to learn and use any spells you like (preferably out of a choice of at least 100) but to only have a select few ready at one time.
This forces tactical play just in organising your spell load out, and it negates the need for any headaches in choosing what "tree" to put points into, and it makes the mage an incredibly flexible tool... capable of being anything you need, from an artillery piece, to a utility provider, a buffer etc.. whatever you need for the situation with just a little pre-planning.
Am I the only one who thinks thats what a mage should be? Rather than basically just a fighter who hits the enemy repeatedly with pretty lights rather than a sword.
This forces tactical play just in organising your spell load out, and it negates the need for any headaches in choosing what "tree" to put points into, and it makes the mage an incredibly flexible tool... capable of being anything you need, from an artillery piece, to a utility provider, a buffer etc.. whatever you need for the situation with just a little pre-planning.
Am I the only one who thinks thats what a mage should be? Rather than basically just a fighter who hits the enemy repeatedly with pretty lights rather than a sword.
