Why doesn't saints row receive more recognition from "Big name" Feminists?

[M0tty]

"Big name feminists" I understand many femenists are level headed and generally sickened by the extremeists who hog the spotlight.

Can you name any 'big name feminists', and for that matter, can you name the limelight hogging extremists and what about them you find extreme?

The reason you haven't seen many genuine big name feminists talking about saints row, is because very few (if any) of the 'superstars' of the feminist scene (e.g. Gloria Steinem, bell hooks etc.) talk much about games. When more famous feminists talk about gaming, it tends to be in light of a specific controversy (e.g. harassment) rather than a critique of general content. The feminists who regularly make critiques of sexism in games tend to be gamers themselves, and relatively small names. Someone like Anita Sarkeesian is known much more in the gaming world than the feminist one (though her tone & content is by no means what most feminists would call extreme).

The main dispute going on within feminism atm, the main point around which feminists might decry others as 'extremist', is transgender rights. Transphobic feminists (E.g. Julie Burchill, Julie Bindel etc.) come closest to your description of "extremists who hog the spotlight" and they, frankly, don't get a huge amount of spotlight, since many feminists will simply not have anything to do with them.

 

[chozo_hybrid]

I guess it's because it's harder to say it's as bad as some things, because it's parody? It's a game made to not be taken seriously?

That's just my guess.

 

[Dragonbums]

I'm pretty certain Saint's Row is highly praised for it's diversity and has not come under fire by any feminists that I know of on a large scale soooooooooooooooo...

 

[Vault101]

I'm a big name feminist and I aprove of saints row!

.........I don't know

 

[nuclearday]

Maybe because Saint's Row is equally full of strippers, sexualized violence and rape jokes?

We can't have strippers, sexualized violence, or rape jokes now? This is why I don't get these feminists they are so busy censoring everything they don't even realize what they are doing.

They stand up and say "NO no you can't have that it might offend someone somewhere or something" and yet if you look at any mature media they have that and more. Why should we let these social critics kill video gaming when compared to other art forms its still in its awkward teen years.

I don't know anyone who's saying that. Maybe you've encountered some who want to censor games, but I'm just saying I don't know any actual feminists that are fighting for censorship of videogames. Maybe you and I just travel in different circles or something, I don't know.

Feminism isn't about censorship. I don't really know how else to expand upon that. It just simply isn't. Even if you could point to some extremist somewhere that's saying that, it's not what actual reasonable people are aiming for, in any way.

 

[Rebel_Raven]

Coz all the male strip clubs in the game are boarded up (There's some in the lower right area of the middle bottom island in SRIII/IV), and inaccessible, while technically legal's a staple.
For starters, anyhow.

But, still, I gotta say, it's prolly one of the most progressive games ever made on the character creation engine alone.

Also
<youtube=egNGa41tRac>

 

[synobal]

Maybe because Saint's Row is equally full of strippers, sexualized violence and rape jokes?

We can't have strippers, sexualized violence, or rape jokes now? This is why I don't get these feminists they are so busy censoring everything they don't even realize what they are doing.

They stand up and say "NO no you can't have that it might offend someone somewhere or something" and yet if you look at any mature media they have that and more. Why should we let these social critics kill video gaming when compared to other art forms its still in its awkward teen years.

I don't know anyone who's saying that. Maybe you've encountered some who want to censor games, but I'm just saying I don't know any actual feminists that are fighting for censorship of videogames. Maybe you and I just travel in different circles or something, I don't know.

Feminism isn't about censorship. I don't really know how else to expand upon that. It just simply isn't. Even if you could point to some extremist somewhere that's saying that, it's not what actual reasonable people are aiming for, in any way.

Really? It sure seems like censorship to me. Developers try to make their game one way and the feminists go "no no you can't do that its evil and sexist and you should be ashamed white straight man!

A few examples [http://imgur.com/a/qt6Es]

 

[small]

ironically the saints row games have been slowly cleaning up their act so to speak with each release

 

[bug_of_war]

Saints Row is one of the few games of these past couple of years that actually know how to be fun. They don't worry too much about the story, or the graphics, they really want the game to be fun, and that is something fantastic about the series, it remembers what the word game means. As for why some folks don't recognise it as something progressive, it's probably because it's not doing it to be progressive, it's just doing it cause, "yeah, let's do it". I personally think that's how games should be, don't worry about characters being a certain way, just make the game fun, but when it comes to the people like Anita Sarkisian (I have no idea if that's how it's spelt, correct me if you like) they want games to be more or less positive mediums that reflect a good proper accepting society that we should all want to achieve.


In my personal opinion, I much prefer my games to just be fun, sure I like a good story here and there (Mass Effect, The Last of Us) but my top 5 games are more around the idea of being fun past times rather than influential, thought provoking master-pieces.

 

[Schadrach]

I don't recall any sexualized violence aside from hitting people with a giant dildo. I mean, slicing people through with a chainsaw until they fall into two seperate meatly halves is fine, but have a dildo shaped like a bat and it's all over? Or punt people in the groin? Cmon.

There are women, some of them are strippers, and violence can be done to them as well as any other NPC. You see, any woman in a game wearing less than full body coverage needs to be immune to violence, like child characters usually are. Because women are like children, see?

I always wonder if they ever notice that, like how they tend to have this blind spot where they'll get angry about people saying negative things about a woman's body hair or sexual conduct but don't have an issue calling their opponents "neckbeard" or "virgin."

 

[Schadrach]

I don't know anyone who's saying that. Maybe you've encountered some who want to censor games, but I'm just saying I don't know any actual feminists that are fighting for censorship of videogames. Maybe you and I just travel in different circles or something, I don't know.

Feminism isn't about censorship. I don't really know how else to expand upon that. It just simply isn't. Even if you could point to some extremist somewhere that's saying that, it's not what actual reasonable people are aiming for, in any way.

It's not censorship per se, but they engage in shaming both developers and players of anything that offends their delicate sensibilities in an attempt to make it go away. The problem is that shaming as a tactic doesn't work on gaming. Ironically, they also tend to get offended when you suggest that maybe they should just make games that match their sensibilities, or support those who do -- because that would lead to more games and more variety of games some of which would meet their preferences, rather than trying to shame the market for things they don't like daring to exist.

 

[Lieju]

That game does get brought up often enough. I'm pretty sure Jim has made a video about it?

But while it does many thing right, at least some games in the series have their issues as well.
A friend of mine who is more into it than me complained about the lack of male strippers for example. And that some female henchwomen were sexily dressed when the men weren't.

Also I'm pretty sure the marketing was pretty tits-focused.

I like SR2, haven't played the rest, but I'd have more respect for it if it had the guts to go fully in, and add male strippers and sex workers etc.

Really? It sure seems like censorship to me. Developers try to make their game one way and the feminists go "no no you can't do that its evil and sexist and you should be ashamed white straight man!

A few examples [http://imgur.com/a/qt6Es]

So...
Considering how rarely Yatzee has nice things to say about games he must be the most pro-censorship person around.

Or anyone who criticizes a game for any reason.
Complain about how your favourite character didn't appear in Smash? Censorship.
Complain about the Silent Hill sequels missing the point and not being scary? Censorship.
Complain about the driving mechanics sucking in a game? You must love censorship.

It's funny it only gets called censorship when it's about these kinds of complaints.
Also I'm not sure what you think that link will prove.
It has screen shots of developers responding to criticism, developers saying they want to make characters who aren't white cishet men, people getting offended that a developer wants to put black people in their game, an example of localisation which I suspect was mainly to remove sexy things, not because of teh SJW's (they removed references to sex in dialogue too.) more people complaining developers put gay people in their game...

What was the point you were trying to make?

If those feminists are trying to censor games, then it's obvious there are people trying to censor games so they'd be less diverse?

 

[Something Amyss]

It's not censorship per se, but they engage in shaming both developers and players of anything that offends their delicate sensibilities in an attempt to make it go away.

Who's this they you're derisively talking about? Because at the last meeting, none of this was ever brought up. And since we are a collective, as your diction correctly indicates, I think I would know about it.

If anyone feels "shamed," perhaps they should get introspective, rather than lashing out at feminists. Perhaps, they might even find a strand of empathy long buried and do with it as they please. Most likely, pull it like a loose thread, but still.

 

[SonOfVoorhees]

Soon female characters in games will be 100% safe and boring so as not to offend. An they will bare zero reflection on real life. By all means have some great female characters. But should that mean no female stripper or prostitutes? No woman in bikinis or in revealing clothes? Woman using their bodies/sexuality to get ahead like female singers do now? No woman portrayed as victims? Because none of that ever happens in reality. Soon developers just wont bother to create a female character due to all the outcry they could get. An if they do create one, it will be boring and 100% sanitized so as not to offend anyone.

 

[mhb77]

I actually remember a lot of people who tend to wind up on SJW lists praising the game for basically letting you be whatever you want to be. As for why it's not being praised right this instant, it's probably because everyone that was going to write a nice thing about the character creation options already did way back in 2011 when the third one came out.

If you actually regularly read what feminists have to say about games you would see a lot of cases where positive stuff is acknowledged.

Of course if you really just mean Sarkessian when you say big name feminist, she probably hasn't mentioned it because her series is about negative/stereotypical representation of women in games, so it wouldn't really be relevant (I don't watch her show so I don't know how accurate what I'm saying here is). Focusing only on the negative may seem biased to you, but it's important to remember that the point of the series is not to judge whether or not the gaming industry is sexist, but to discuss specific problematic characters and how they relate to overused conventions. If you were reading an article about a corrupt politician you wouldn't expect it to take a break halfway through to remind everyone that many politicians aren't corrupt and are in fact lovely people. The same applies for a video series on problematic depictions of women in videogames.

 

[RedDeadFred]

Saints Row is utterly fucking ridiculous. I mean that in a good way, but because the games are so silly a lot of critics don't take them seriously. It's like taking a clown seriously - one can admire the skill of a clown but there's always a nagging feeling that you're being mocked.

Saints Row can only be enjoyed by people who at the very least can put on hold their sense of their own seriousness.

Agreed. This is actually very similar with some stand up comedians. Lots of people don't take them seriously because their job is simply to make people laugh. Some comedians do tackle issues that they believe need to be talked about, but a lot of people tend to dismiss their opinions since "they're just joking around."

Take Louis CK for example. Back when it was still considered okay to hit your kids, Louis had a big rant in one of his routines about it. He did it in a highly funny and joking manner, but you can tell that he really does believe hitting kids is not okay.

George Carlin was also famous for this. He covered tons of issues that many other comedians would never have touched. He actually had some very insightful rants, but once again, I'm sure a lot of people just dismissed him as joking around.

People need to realize that just because something or someone is silly, it doesn't mean that you can't take them seriously.