I sure as hell don't, it's a waste of time, the series is over, anything that's come out lately to revive the brand has been god-awful shite that's not worth your time.
Why Exactly Do We Care About Star Wars?
- Thread starter Yahtzee Croshaw
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If you don't care much for Star Wars, how can you presume to understand people who do?Da Joz said:
No, Mr. Yahtzee, you're wrong. The best case scenario is if the new sequels are great. So great they make even the most stubborn fans forget about all the previous ones. You can rightly say that's impossible. But you're jaded, and accustomed to disappointment, therefore your judgement isn't sound.
For me, the origional three were good, not great. They don't even sit in the top ten of my favorite movies. As with others, I was always a trek fan, and while I liked Starwars, it was never something that I could understand the rampant fanatisim of. The prequals would have been better if they didn't cycle sithlords each one, and left vader's backstory alone, or at least have gotten good actors to play him. They weren't complete train wrecks, they had a lot of good ideas, just poor execution. I have a feeling if they weren't star wars movies, people would have liked them better.
Fans ruined star wars for me. I loved the original trilogy. The first one was always my favorite, but the three fight scene at the end of Jedi is still the greatest (sci-fi) battle ever put to film in my opinion. Say what you want about the ewoks and stormtroopers terrible aim, find me a space battle more intense and visually stunning than that one. And that score over vader and luke's final duel, and vader's heel-face turn to kill the emperor and save himself, Just watch it!
It's brilliant. And before you dismiss my argument as some Luddite "who didn't like empire because it was boring", i loved Empire. Hoth, Asteroid field, dagobah, yoda, cloud city and the single greatest twist ever put to film. love it all. Seriously strongest writing of the original trilogy. I really hate that have to defend myself as a fan of star wars because i like new hope more than empire.
All this brings me to the prequel trilogy. And the question i always ask and never get a straight answer to: What did you expect? And don't say "not that", that's a cheap cop-out and you know it. You don't know what you wanted. and when given something perfectly serviceable you scorned it. why? because it wasn't Han's backstory? Luke growing up ridiculously bored on a moisture farm on a desert world? Leia growing up in a pampered world where she's a princess, and finding out the heart wrenching details that she is a replacement for a child her adoptive parents lost when the dark side took over before entering into a world of political intrigue and guile and working as a legitimate politician while secretly supporting and supplying a rebellion? okay that last one would be pretty awesome.
But the point is this. There was no way those films would ever be accepted even if they hadn't had atrocious dialogue and bad casting (by the way the only two problems i have with the prequel, and lets face it the originals had those problems too).
There are two reasons for this.
1: It wasn't new.
It wasn't. The original had a big thing going for it. No one had ever seen anything like it. EVER. and that visual stun made us overlook alot of the problems. Like Crysis and The Avengers it just looked so damn pretty and awesome and so different from anything before it that any flaws were covered up. The prequels had no such luxury. Episode 1 was released the same year as The Matrix, the Terminator and Robocop had been around for over a decade. science fiction and stunning visuals had been around for while. Pixar was making the leaps and bounds in graphic animation, and video games had already begun to change the playing field.
2:We all knew how it was going to end.
Some kid named anakin skywlker? Obi-Wan Kenobi? Jango Fett? Yoda? Palpatine? R2D2? C-3PO? We all knew what was going to happen, and where all these people were going to end up. The dramatic turn in Revenge of the Sith? Not dramatic, we know Anakin is going to be Vader and lose the arms and legs. There was no suspense, we knew where characters were going and some of the die-hards fans even knew how they were going to get there. Well of course the republic is going to use clones. Of course palpatine is going to be put in charge of the senate. of course the Jedi are going massacred. and yes Anakin is going to turn to the dark side. Surprise!
So i think the prequels are perfectly serviceable films that were never going to live up ridiculously high expectations fans had for them.
And the whole Mediclorean thing? drop it. It's a stupid argument and you look stupid when you use it. every supernatural sci-fi/fantasy Jesus race has a something (in fact usually in their blood) that marks them out as special. and according to Expanded Universe Medicloreans just make you more aware and sensitive to the force, everyone has them just the higher the count the better with the force you'll be.
Tl;dr FML
It's brilliant. And before you dismiss my argument as some Luddite "who didn't like empire because it was boring", i loved Empire. Hoth, Asteroid field, dagobah, yoda, cloud city and the single greatest twist ever put to film. love it all. Seriously strongest writing of the original trilogy. I really hate that have to defend myself as a fan of star wars because i like new hope more than empire.
All this brings me to the prequel trilogy. And the question i always ask and never get a straight answer to: What did you expect? And don't say "not that", that's a cheap cop-out and you know it. You don't know what you wanted. and when given something perfectly serviceable you scorned it. why? because it wasn't Han's backstory? Luke growing up ridiculously bored on a moisture farm on a desert world? Leia growing up in a pampered world where she's a princess, and finding out the heart wrenching details that she is a replacement for a child her adoptive parents lost when the dark side took over before entering into a world of political intrigue and guile and working as a legitimate politician while secretly supporting and supplying a rebellion? okay that last one would be pretty awesome.
But the point is this. There was no way those films would ever be accepted even if they hadn't had atrocious dialogue and bad casting (by the way the only two problems i have with the prequel, and lets face it the originals had those problems too).
There are two reasons for this.
1: It wasn't new.
It wasn't. The original had a big thing going for it. No one had ever seen anything like it. EVER. and that visual stun made us overlook alot of the problems. Like Crysis and The Avengers it just looked so damn pretty and awesome and so different from anything before it that any flaws were covered up. The prequels had no such luxury. Episode 1 was released the same year as The Matrix, the Terminator and Robocop had been around for over a decade. science fiction and stunning visuals had been around for while. Pixar was making the leaps and bounds in graphic animation, and video games had already begun to change the playing field.
2:We all knew how it was going to end.
Some kid named anakin skywlker? Obi-Wan Kenobi? Jango Fett? Yoda? Palpatine? R2D2? C-3PO? We all knew what was going to happen, and where all these people were going to end up. The dramatic turn in Revenge of the Sith? Not dramatic, we know Anakin is going to be Vader and lose the arms and legs. There was no suspense, we knew where characters were going and some of the die-hards fans even knew how they were going to get there. Well of course the republic is going to use clones. Of course palpatine is going to be put in charge of the senate. of course the Jedi are going massacred. and yes Anakin is going to turn to the dark side. Surprise!
So i think the prequels are perfectly serviceable films that were never going to live up ridiculously high expectations fans had for them.
And the whole Mediclorean thing? drop it. It's a stupid argument and you look stupid when you use it. every supernatural sci-fi/fantasy Jesus race has a something (in fact usually in their blood) that marks them out as special. and according to Expanded Universe Medicloreans just make you more aware and sensitive to the force, everyone has them just the higher the count the better with the force you'll be.
Tl;dr FML
*slow clap*
Wow. This has been my favorite Extra Punctuation article in a long time. The best part to me was how he mentioned that in Star Wars you have no real feel for the stakes, because anything is possible. Barge full of armed thugs? Let me just spin my laser sword around until I kill everyone. Giant planet-destroying space station? Let me just shoot it in its' weak spot like it's a Zelda boss.
I've been a fan of Star Wars since I was 8 years old, which meant I was young and dumb enough to succumb entirely to that world. Toys, comic books, you name it. But I can admit that Star Wars is hardly relevant today. The original trilogy is good fun, but there's nothing poignant or meaningful about it. I get the feeling that Star Wars is one of those things we put up on a cultural pedestal that future generations won't even see the point of.
Again, I like Star Wars, and I can still enjoy the films for what they are. But let's not pretend they're anything more than escapist entertainment. Star Wars is in the same arena as an 80's action movie or a modern romantic comedy - some people will enjoy it simply for what it is, but it's ultimately just candy.
Wow. This has been my favorite Extra Punctuation article in a long time. The best part to me was how he mentioned that in Star Wars you have no real feel for the stakes, because anything is possible. Barge full of armed thugs? Let me just spin my laser sword around until I kill everyone. Giant planet-destroying space station? Let me just shoot it in its' weak spot like it's a Zelda boss.
I've been a fan of Star Wars since I was 8 years old, which meant I was young and dumb enough to succumb entirely to that world. Toys, comic books, you name it. But I can admit that Star Wars is hardly relevant today. The original trilogy is good fun, but there's nothing poignant or meaningful about it. I get the feeling that Star Wars is one of those things we put up on a cultural pedestal that future generations won't even see the point of.
Again, I like Star Wars, and I can still enjoy the films for what they are. But let's not pretend they're anything more than escapist entertainment. Star Wars is in the same arena as an 80's action movie or a modern romantic comedy - some people will enjoy it simply for what it is, but it's ultimately just candy.
I am of the flame baiting opinion that Star Wars is "ten year old cool".
"Cool" in the sense of it's a lot of stuff that has flipped the switch of a lot of people for very few reasons other than "how cool is that?" It doesn't get much deeper. Swords made of light?!? Cool! Psychic powers?!? Cool! A villain who looks like a robot in a cape who can choke people with magic? A dude who owns a super fast spaceship and hangs out with a bear man? Let's put it this way, if Star Wars were made fifteen years later than it was, every Jedi would ride sacred hover boards. That'd be their thing.
Now nothing wrong with appealing to ten year olds. Ten year olds need fiction too, and I'm sure Star Wars inspired a lot of future story tellers.
I just don't think Star Wars has ever been much more than "ten year old cool". Look at everybody's favorite underdog villain for instance! A bounty hunter with few if any lines or personality who the fan base has resurrected in new fictions purely because why? Oh yeah, he looked really cool.
I don't hate Star Wars or think less of it's fans. We're all suckers for something like this at one point or another in our lives. I just think that any depth in the series is overblown or deposited after the fact. It just has no reason to be held so sacred other than nostalgia. I hope Disney gives us a few competent films that will wow the socks off of the world's ten year olds. That's all it's really required to do.
PS my disregard for "cool" isn't limited to the ten year old variety. At any age when the only really good thing you can say about something is that it's "cool", it might be time to examine what that means to you exactly. It usually doesn't carry much substantial weight.
"Cool" in the sense of it's a lot of stuff that has flipped the switch of a lot of people for very few reasons other than "how cool is that?" It doesn't get much deeper. Swords made of light?!? Cool! Psychic powers?!? Cool! A villain who looks like a robot in a cape who can choke people with magic? A dude who owns a super fast spaceship and hangs out with a bear man? Let's put it this way, if Star Wars were made fifteen years later than it was, every Jedi would ride sacred hover boards. That'd be their thing.
Now nothing wrong with appealing to ten year olds. Ten year olds need fiction too, and I'm sure Star Wars inspired a lot of future story tellers.
I just don't think Star Wars has ever been much more than "ten year old cool". Look at everybody's favorite underdog villain for instance! A bounty hunter with few if any lines or personality who the fan base has resurrected in new fictions purely because why? Oh yeah, he looked really cool.
I don't hate Star Wars or think less of it's fans. We're all suckers for something like this at one point or another in our lives. I just think that any depth in the series is overblown or deposited after the fact. It just has no reason to be held so sacred other than nostalgia. I hope Disney gives us a few competent films that will wow the socks off of the world's ten year olds. That's all it's really required to do.
PS my disregard for "cool" isn't limited to the ten year old variety. At any age when the only really good thing you can say about something is that it's "cool", it might be time to examine what that means to you exactly. It usually doesn't carry much substantial weight.
It's a good point Ben makes in this article.
I would just like to add that any additional Star Wars movies, even if those had been merely OK, would still contribute to Star Wars remaining strong in the collective unconscious. It would still inspire people to re-watch the old trilogy when they might not have, and young audiences to watch it for the first time when they perhaps wouldn't. Movies reach audiences in numbers the books of the Expanded Universe likely wouldn't.
I would just like to add that any additional Star Wars movies, even if those had been merely OK, would still contribute to Star Wars remaining strong in the collective unconscious. It would still inspire people to re-watch the old trilogy when they might not have, and young audiences to watch it for the first time when they perhaps wouldn't. Movies reach audiences in numbers the books of the Expanded Universe likely wouldn't.
I'm sick of Star Wars. It's a dead horse. The expanded universe is so ridiculous and every new Star Wars content is basically fan fiction.
I probably will see the new Star Wars because honestly I liked the new Star Trek, which was probably because I've never watched any of the original series and only know the classic staples of it (Vulcan sleeper hold, live long and prosper, etc.)
So yea I didn't mind JJ Abrams. You could say he makes "soulless" content, but the fact is he is great with characters. It's the only thing that LOST had going for it. The main reason why I think that he won't be able to make a new Star Wars as good as they used to be is that his characters don't have as much charm. Not as much witty dialogue or humour.
Which was why Whedon totally should have been made the new director. Until then... I think I'll just watch Firefly instead of Star Wars.
I probably will see the new Star Wars because honestly I liked the new Star Trek, which was probably because I've never watched any of the original series and only know the classic staples of it (Vulcan sleeper hold, live long and prosper, etc.)
So yea I didn't mind JJ Abrams. You could say he makes "soulless" content, but the fact is he is great with characters. It's the only thing that LOST had going for it. The main reason why I think that he won't be able to make a new Star Wars as good as they used to be is that his characters don't have as much charm. Not as much witty dialogue or humour.
Which was why Whedon totally should have been made the new director. Until then... I think I'll just watch Firefly instead of Star Wars.
Because it makes a disgusting amount of money each time anything with those two words branded on it is released.Da Joz said:
Besides, as proven by KOTOR, Battlefront 2 and Force Unleashed 1, Star Wars has the potential for some awesome video games in a massive universe. But it keeps getting squandered for shitty Kinect games, or Lego Star Wars. Or that one animated film.
I always found it was more about the characters... Han Solo, Lando, Luke, Leia, Vader... Even Chewbacca. They work well together in true ragtag misfits fashion. The new trilogy didn't work because every character was an idiot who made ridiculous decisions and had no decent dialogue.Luca72 said:
I like Star Wars because it's good sci-fi, and when sci-fi is good, it can convince you of anything.
You don't care that Doctor Who's is about 11 different actors flying in a phone booth.
You don't care that Star Trek has a fafillion different aliens that are all basically humans with funky faces.
You don't care that Buck Rogers...um...actually I don't know what the deal is with Buck Rogers.
Basically I care about Star Wars because it is good. Well the originals were. I only enjoyed the 3rd of the prequels because I got to see Vader as Vader and not Bland Mcwhinypants. I'm just wary about Disney because lately DIsney has been doing a bum job at making films. Only ones I liked as of late came out of Pixar...
You don't care that Doctor Who's is about 11 different actors flying in a phone booth.
You don't care that Star Trek has a fafillion different aliens that are all basically humans with funky faces.
You don't care that Buck Rogers...um...actually I don't know what the deal is with Buck Rogers.
Basically I care about Star Wars because it is good. Well the originals were. I only enjoyed the 3rd of the prequels because I got to see Vader as Vader and not Bland Mcwhinypants. I'm just wary about Disney because lately DIsney has been doing a bum job at making films. Only ones I liked as of late came out of Pixar...
I disagree with some of that... I didn't know what was going to happen. Honestly I though episode 1 would have Anakin already as a powerful Jedi apprentice and it would detail his descent to the dark side immediately. The second one I pictured Anakin and Obi Wan kinda in a bit of an arms race - With Anakin secretly undertaking missions for the emperor to help with the whole "master plan" to take over, and Obi Wan trying to find out who is pulling Anakins strings (and also not making it so damn obvious who the emperor would be). I thought that the "clones" were going to be bad guys - possibly even Dark Jedi clones(because nobody ever said Sith in the original trilogy). In the third film the republic would try to fight back against these clones and eventually be defeated while the emperor seizes power and begin to crack down on everyone, Hitler style. Throughout the second and third films the Jedi would be hunted down slowly over time (that's what I thought Obi Wan meant by "Darth Vader helped hunt down and kill the Jedi Knights") rather than having almost all of them destroyed within about 10 minutes in a montage.rayen020 said:
SO yea I'm basically saying that everyone expected them to go into the backstory, not just make up some events that feel totally disconnected from the original story because of how poorly they merge together at the end. We knew three things:
A. Anakin goes bad
B. The Empire rises
C. There are some sort of wars involving some sort of clones
That was all. There could have been plenty of tension if some interesting characters were around that would actually make us emotionally invested in the films.
I've never really told anyone this for fear of being hung, drawn and quartered on the spot but... Well... I thought the original trilogy was only 'pretty good'. I fully appreciate that they are landmark films, and as someone studying towards working in special effects they're a particularly important milestone, but having seen them a couple of times now... I've not felt the urge to watch them again. Granted, I didn't see them until my late teens, but that just makes me wonder just how much of Star Wars' eternal popularity is based on a nostalgia that I don't have for the franchise...
I liked the light sabers >.> and thats about it.
the more I found out about stuff, like the jedi, the less I ended up caring to the point I've never actually seen EP3 and likely won't, I just don't care enough to finish it
the more I found out about stuff, like the jedi, the less I ended up caring to the point I've never actually seen EP3 and likely won't, I just don't care enough to finish it
It's just that Star Wars has such an expansive and interesting world and people keep doing the wrong things with it.
I would say that the the prequels were created because people cared about Star Wars, not the other way around. I was in the age range to enjoy the prequels, and I remember I was excited as the older fans when I learned I would get to see more. Sure, Star Wars may be a hot topic now because everyone thinks Lucas should have done to himself what he did to his movies (what I'm saying is he should have killed himself slowly and painfully), but without the prequels, people would have filled the void one way or another. People like me who grew up watching the old movies would have taken up the task of continuing the story, whereas I feel like now people just want to let the whole universe implode so we can start over.
Therefore, I hope Star Wars VII has nothing to do with the previous six. It's a great universe, but no one wants to use it any more. We need a new canon starting point.
Therefore, I hope Star Wars VII has nothing to do with the previous six. It's a great universe, but no one wants to use it any more. We need a new canon starting point.
Neat. I've never thought of it like that. I guess if the prequels hadn't come out, I would have nearly as many Star Wars nerdy friends as I do, because so few of my friends growing up ever really got into Star Wars.
As for me personally, I would still be the same Star Wars nut I am today even if the prequels had never come out. When I discovered that the story of Star Wars and its characters continued in books after the movies ended, I immediately set out to find every single book I could. I have read all but...three, maybe four, of the Star Wars books that take place after Return of the Jedi. I've grown up with Jaina, Jacen, and Anakin, and I honestly don't think my love of the franchise would have been affected at all if the prequels had never been made.
As for me personally, I would still be the same Star Wars nut I am today even if the prequels had never come out. When I discovered that the story of Star Wars and its characters continued in books after the movies ended, I immediately set out to find every single book I could. I have read all but...three, maybe four, of the Star Wars books that take place after Return of the Jedi. I've grown up with Jaina, Jacen, and Anakin, and I honestly don't think my love of the franchise would have been affected at all if the prequels had never been made.
So true. I liked the original trilogy, that's about it. I also enjoyed several of the early flight simulation games. Honestly, if you remove The Force and Jedi/Sith from Star Wars, it becomes a decent enough universe to play around in. Unfortunately, they dominate everything about it and because of that, I think we should let it go.