Why fictional countries shows us our ignorance

[Spaceman Spiff]

I don't think it's ignorance. The writers just come up with a new country that suits their story/characters and plop it into an area of the world that reasonably reflects the type of atmosphere they envision for it.

 

[Queen Michael]

I don't think it's ignorance. The writers just come up with a new country that suits their story/characters and plop it into an area of the world that reasonably reflects the type of atmosphere they envision for it.

Not ignorance on the writers' part, the readers'.

 

[DefunctTheory]

Silly OP.

On a serious note, the trend now a days is create nations in areas and vilify them, but still be able to claim no one is offending a foreign nation, like how DC occasionally creates Middle East countries to commit 'typical' Middle East aggressiveness. Its obvious the authors are just taking the worst of the region and rolling it under one blanket fake country, but they can't exactly write stuff that says 'And then Iraq fired all the chemical weapons, everywhere, to everyone.'

If only the Soviet Union hadn't collapsed...

 

[Owyn_Merrilin]

Ever notice how in most movies, American or Japanese, or French or whatever... that Canada doesn't exist? Especially in disaster movies... we simply just aren't on the maps of world devastation or aren't mentioned at all? It's not like we're one of the leading countries in the world, but people forget we exist. Or think you can take a day trip from Toronto to Vancouver.

This is one thing that bugged me in Pacific Rim. The first Jaeger to take down a Kaiju was called Brawler Yukon. So I thought "Sweet! Canada not only has a giant robot, but we get the first kill!"

Turns out that Brawler Yukon was an American Jaeger, and Canada doesn't actually have any. What the hell? They can launch Jaegers from Anchorage but not from Yukon?

On the plus side, at least the (nonexistent) Canadian robot didn't get destroyed the first time we see it in an actual battle, the way the Russian and Chinese Jaegers went down. With all that buildup, it would have been nice to see, you know, an international team, and not two American robots kicking ass. Especially considering the director is originally from Mexico.

 

[Stu35]

snip

tl;dr: The reason writers can invent a fictional country and even give it a location on the map is the fact that the audience don't know anything about what's supposed to be there.

Fascinating.

Or, y'know. Not.

Also, this:

snip

Short version: It's not ignorance, its an effort to have modern settings without offending real countries, as well as a function of the continent's smaller country size preventing the same from happening to North America without breaking up one or both of the two supersized countries on the continent.

What I always find a little irritating is the insistence that only Americans can be leading men, and other nations either don't exist, or at best play minor parts supporting the glorious American hero.

One of my favourite films: The Rock. Pretty much the only film I've ever seen that has a foreign supporting character who actually has any value.

Don't get me wrong, I totally understand the reasoning behind it - Americans don't like the idea of a British hero, because, like James Bond, he'd just show you all up. It's still a little irksome though.

Same goes for America as a nation representing the entire planet earth. (I hate the entire Stargate TV series for this exact reason.)

 

[madwarper]

And in other works where fictional countries are used, one thing is a given: They aren't located in North America.

Out of curiosity... How many "fictional countries" are located on the Australian continent?

The reason is obvious. If they were located anywhere in North America, especially in territory that's US territory in real life. See, if a fictional country is located in Europe or Africa, then the majority of the readers/players/viewers won't know anything about the area where it's located.

Ummm. No.

The fewer borders there are, the harder (and more unlikely) it is to redraw them to add a fictional country.
Europe and Africa have several countries, with borders that are no where near as consistent as those between the Canada and the US, and the US and Mexico.

But, if you want to talk about the DC universe and the US, let's talk about all the fictional cities.
Bludhaven, Blue Valley, Calvin City, Central City, Civic City, Coast City, Cosmos, Dos Rios, Gateway City, etc.

 

[EternallyBored]

snip

tl;dr: The reason writers can invent a fictional country and even give it a location on the map is the fact that the audience don't know anything about what's supposed to be there.

Fascinating.

Or, y'know. Not.

Also, this:

snip

Short version: It's not ignorance, its an effort to have modern settings without offending real countries, as well as a function of the continent's smaller country size preventing the same from happening to North America without breaking up one or both of the two supersized countries on the continent.

What I always find a little irritating is the insistence that only Americans can be leading men, and other nations either don't exist, or at best play minor parts supporting the glorious American hero.

One of my favourite films: The Rock. Pretty much the only film I've ever seen that has a foreign supporting character who actually has any value.

Don't get me wrong, I totally understand the reasoning behind it - Americans don't like the idea of a British hero, because, like James Bond, he'd just show you all up. It's still a little irksome though.

Same goes for America as a nation representing the entire planet earth. (I hate the entire Stargate TV series for this exact reason.)

That would be ethnocentrism, same reason most British T.V features British heroes, and 90% of anime is either set entirely in Japan, or uses very culturally Japanese settings. Same with the sci-fi so much of anime set in the future is basically space Japan with the other countries featured either being cultural parodies or adapting a lot of Japanese cultural traits. Same reason that Apparently everything outside of Europe almost doesn't exist in the Harry Potter books. People usually write or create for the culture they are a part of, it's what they know best.

I imagine the reason its so irksome to you is because Hollywood is so damn monolithic, so much of the entertainment produced in the U.S. is exported to the rest of the world, your basically being bombarded in entertainment made by Americans and for Americans. Even when Hollywood makes a film or show for world wide release it's still written by Americans, who are influenced by the culture they were raised in, even when they try to write for a wider audience, cultural influences still tend to seep in.

 

[Redlin5_v1legacy]

This is one thing that bugged me in Pacific Rim. The first Jaeger to take down a Kaiju was called Brawler Yukon. So I thought "Sweet! Canada not only has a giant robot, but we get the first kill!"

Turns out that Brawler Yukon was an American Jaeger, and Canada doesn't actually have any. What the hell? They can launch Jaegers from Anchorage but not from Yukon?

Spoiler: Why can't I be represented?!

Seriously, I wanted a Canadian Jaeger but we don't get any mention. Guess the monsters forgot about us too.

OT: If only Canada, the USA and Mexico were smaller huh? Then we could fit in some fictional countries near us. Having a crazy country for fictional purposes in North America is just asking too much of us. We can't maintain our suspension of disbelief if the government or ordinary people do bad things here... <_<

I do wish we could stop having to make up Itsabadplaceistan in the same areas of the world.

 

[Yoshi4102]

Or maybe the location of the fictional country borrows cultural aspects from the area it took over. Meaning you have to have a bit of knowledge of the area. Screaming American ignorance just sounds... well, ignorant. A fictional location gives the story an identity of it's own.

 

[Soviet Heavy]

Ever notice how in most movies, American or Japanese, or French or whatever... that Canada doesn't exist? Especially in disaster movies... we simply just aren't on the maps of world devastation or aren't mentioned at all? It's not like we're one of the leading countries in the world, but people forget we exist. Or think you can take a day trip from Toronto to Vancouver.

This is one thing that bugged me in Pacific Rim. The first Jaeger to take down a Kaiju was called Brawler Yukon. So I thought "Sweet! Canada not only has a giant robot, but we get the first kill!"

Turns out that Brawler Yukon was an American Jaeger, and Canada doesn't actually have any. What the hell? They can launch Jaegers from Anchorage but not from Yukon?

On the plus side, at least the (nonexistent) Canadian robot didn't get destroyed the first time we see it in an actual battle, the way the Russian and Chinese Jaegers went down. With all that buildup, it would have been nice to see, you know, an international team, and not two American robots kicking ass. Especially considering the director is originally from Mexico.

But Stryker Eureka was Australian...

Anyways, I feel that if we are going to make up fictional countries, we might as well fictionalize our own countries while we're at it. That's something I appreciate about the Grand Theft Auto series. It's the united states all right, but everything has a different name and geographical layout. San Andreas is California, with Los Santos (Los Angeles), San Fierro (San Francisco), and then you have Las Venturas (Vegas) in Nevada, or Liberty City (New York).

 

[Owyn_Merrilin]

Ever notice how in most movies, American or Japanese, or French or whatever... that Canada doesn't exist? Especially in disaster movies... we simply just aren't on the maps of world devastation or aren't mentioned at all? It's not like we're one of the leading countries in the world, but people forget we exist. Or think you can take a day trip from Toronto to Vancouver.

This is one thing that bugged me in Pacific Rim. The first Jaeger to take down a Kaiju was called Brawler Yukon. So I thought "Sweet! Canada not only has a giant robot, but we get the first kill!"

Turns out that Brawler Yukon was an American Jaeger, and Canada doesn't actually have any. What the hell? They can launch Jaegers from Anchorage but not from Yukon?

On the plus side, at least the (nonexistent) Canadian robot didn't get destroyed the first time we see it in an actual battle, the way the Russian and Chinese Jaegers went down. With all that buildup, it would have been nice to see, you know, an international team, and not two American robots kicking ass. Especially considering the director is originally from Mexico.

But Stryker Eureka was Australian...

Anyways, I feel that if we are going to make up fictional countries, we might as well fictionalize our own countries while we're at it. That's something I appreciate about the Grand Theft Auto series. It's the united states all right, but everything has a different name and geographical layout. San Andreas is California, with Los Santos (Los Angeles), San Fierro (San Francisco), and then you have Las Venturas (Vegas) in Nevada, or Liberty City (New York).

You know, you're right. I managed to miss/forget that because of the way the son in that father son duo was portrayed pretty much the way I'd expect to see an American fighter pilot portrayed in a Japanese movie -- you know, total stereotype, I was getting Top Gun flash backs the whole time, and the only time I saw that movie must have been 10 years ago. Come to think of it Idris Elba's character (whose turn as a pilot was the other reason I was thinking of it as an American robot) was British, not American. He was just randomly in charge of an American base at the start of the movie.

 

[Sigmund Av Volsung]

Oh you think that's bad? Imagine when people are convinced in something completely opposite, convinced that real country is fictional. Thanks Borat.

I remembered that my family were telling me that they were showing Romania, not Kazakhstan in the movie.

Sucks, I suppose, but it also sucks when all Eastern Europeans are just Russians.

That's just inappropriate.

Anyway, back on topic, I think these fake countries are invented to prevent the ire from the real countries they wanted to base it on.

Like Princess Diaries being based off of the Netherlands.

Also I'm pretty sure that the people that the directors wanted to showcase as being geographically ignorant would not in the first place realise how ignorant they are being, geography-wise.

 

[DrOswald]

Ever notice how in most movies, American or Japanese, or French or whatever... that Canada doesn't exist? Especially in disaster movies... we simply just aren't on the maps of world devastation or aren't mentioned at all? It's not like we're one of the leading countries in the world, but people forget we exist. Or think you can take a day trip from Toronto to Vancouver.

This is one thing that bugged me in Pacific Rim. The first Jaeger to take down a Kaiju was called Brawler Yukon. So I thought "Sweet! Canada not only has a giant robot, but we get the first kill!"

Turns out that Brawler Yukon was an American Jaeger, and Canada doesn't actually have any. What the hell? They can launch Jaegers from Anchorage but not from Yukon?

On the plus side, at least the (nonexistent) Canadian robot didn't get destroyed the first time we see it in an actual battle, the way the Russian and Chinese Jaegers went down. With all that buildup, it would have been nice to see, you know, an international team, and not two American robots kicking ass. Especially considering the director is originally from Mexico.

Well, the American robot was also basically destroyed the first time we saw it fight, mainly because the American pilots were being cocky jackasses. That is hardly a "Go America!" moment. And the second major robot (Striker Eureka) was Australian, not American, and is the only robot we see that isn't destroyed during it's first on screen battle and is the most powerful robot of them all. And also, the pilot team for Gypsy Danger was half Japanese. And then we have the scientists, German and British, and the Commander, also British.

I mean, the POV character is American (and thus so is his robot) but that is really it. I think it is a bit petty to complain that the team was American heavy when there was only 1 American involved.

 

[DementedSheep]

I don?t mind that, even if it is a place I am familiar with. The geography doesn't make sense or would require other countries to smaller. I just assume that the geography is a bit different rather than it being literately squeezed in between two countries as they are on the real map with no changes. I don't think it's really to try and take advantage of ignorance. There are many fictional american cities that make no sense as to where they would be either.

The problem is more that fictional countries tend to be a poorly disguised ignorant caricatures of a real country. They just slap another name on it an it put it in the general area of the real one so when they are called out on it being ignorant and offensive they can pass it off. ?no really, were not talking about Y. We?re talking about X?. This is often the case with fantasy races too and particularly cringe worthy when they have real culture expy as an always evil punching bag race.

 

[Something Amyss]

And in other works where fictional countries are used, one thing is a given: They aren't located in North America. The reason is obvious. If they were located anywhere in North America, especially in territory that's US territory in real life. See, if a fictional country is located in Europe or Africa, then the majority of the readers/players/viewers won't know anything about the area where it's located.

But we have fictional states and cities within the US. How is that different?

 

[HardkorSB]

And in other works where fictional countries are used, one thing is a given: They aren't located in North America.

Maybe that's because there aren't that many countries in North America? There are 3 main countries in NA. I'm not sure whether the smaller countries south of Mexico count as North or Central America. Cuba and Jamaica aren't part of the mainland so I'm not counting them. There really isn't anywhere to put a fictional country.
Europe, Africa, Asia and South America have much more countries. Europe's political map has changed many times over the last 100 years. It's much easier to squeeze a small country in there somewhere.

 

[Mycroft Holmes]

That's why these fictional countries are never located in territory that belongs to the USA in the real world -- US people would notice how it didn't make sense.

Most people cant name all 50 states, and quite a few think that Alaska is an island. I think you're giving people a bit more credit than they deserve.

tl;dr: The reason writers can invent a fictional country and even give it a location on the map is the fact that the audience don't know anything about what's supposed to be there.

Or people just really don't give a shit because honestly who cares it's just a story?

also

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fictional_U.S._states
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Fictional_populated_places_in_the_United_States

No one is thrown for a loop or angry because Gotham, New Jersey isn't a real place.