Why have game developers struggled to make amazing space sci fi games during the 2010s?

AstroCadet69

Regular Member
Sep 30, 2021
14
4
13
Country
USA
"No Man's Sky", "Mass Effect Andromeda", "Starfield", etc.

Starfield is a little better than Andromeda but it isn't amazing like the ME OT, BSG, and The Expanse.

While we get amazing games like "Horizon Zero Dawn", "Spider Man", "Elden Ring", etc.

Mass Effect Andromeda seemed aimed at the MCU fans and Gen Z.
https://www.thegamer.com/mass-effect-andromeda-feeling-like-cw-show-was-intentional/

I wish "Mass Effect 4" could have been more like "BSG" or "The Expanse" than "Mass Effect Andromeda".

I say that as someone who enjoyed the MCU but also like serious sci fi as well.

Back in 2014 when I was excited for ME4 Squadron 42 is closer to what I imagined ME4 to be like.

Back in the early 2010s this is what I imagined space sci fi games of the mid to late 2010s would look like.



The mid to late 2010s should have seen a cinematic space adventure game that at least received 8/10 reviews and had a serious sci fi story.
 

sXeth

Elite Member
Legacy
Nov 15, 2012
3,301
676
118
Does Squadon 42 (or Star Citizen for that matter) actually exist yet? (funny we were just discussing the other hype fountain dude in another thread)

Without even particularly digging into it, Elite Dangerous and X4 also came out in the 2010s. Probably a dozen other things dpending how we're defining space sci-fi game these days (given Starfield, No Mans Sky and Mass Effect are all signfiicantly different from each other)
 
  • Like
Reactions: BrawlMan

Drathnoxis

I love the smell of card games in the morning
Legacy
Sep 23, 2010
5,924
2,172
118
Just off-screen
Country
Canada
Gender
Male
Starfield is a 2020s game. In case you haven't noticed, almost 4 years have passed since the turn of the decade.
 

Elvis Starburst

Unprofessional Rant Artist
Legacy
Aug 9, 2011
2,816
801
118
Starfield is a 2020s game. In case you haven't noticed, almost 4 years have passed since the turn of the decade.
I'm almost certain this is some bot or user that pulls these posts from another forum and pastes theme here without any real context behind them. Their first 2 posts were in September of 2021, and then 2 whole years later they sudden crop up with one or two threads every month starting September.
Even if the dates are unrelated, it all reads kinda weird...
 

sXeth

Elite Member
Legacy
Nov 15, 2012
3,301
676
118
This feels like a shadow advertisement for Star Citizen.
I mean based on other threads it seems like a semi-real person. The topics stay sort of aligned with what one person might be interested in. They know to post in the correct sections etc. That or testing some kind of generative AI to write articles/essays/what have you
 
Last edited:

Catfood220

Elite Member
Legacy
Dec 21, 2010
2,118
377
88
Dead Space 2 was released in 2011, I'm just saying.

Mind you, Dead Space 3 was released in 2013, so you might have a point.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BrawlMan

Dreiko

Elite Member
Legacy
May 1, 2020
3,036
1,049
118
CT
Country
usa
Gender
male, pronouns: your majesty/my lord/daddy
Nier Automata kinda defeats this argument, it was one of my favorite gaming experiences of all time and true sci-fi of the highest order, not just "ape startreck/wars" style sci-fi.


Also Starfield is worse than I heard it was, I recently saw the angry joe review and I was surprised. It legit sounds a lot worse than both fallout 4 and skyrim.
 

Drathnoxis

I love the smell of card games in the morning
Legacy
Sep 23, 2010
5,924
2,172
118
Just off-screen
Country
Canada
Gender
Male
Nier Automata kinda defeats this argument, it was one of my favorite gaming experiences of all time and true sci-fi of the highest order, not just "ape startreck/wars" style sci-fi.
Having a moon base hardly qualifies the game as being a 'space sci-fi'.
 

Joccaren

Elite Member
Mar 29, 2011
2,601
3
43
In all honesty, IMO, its because they've got access to far more powerful engines that don't limit them as much, and this leads to a focus on the superfluous rather than the core of the game.

You've pulled up some very different game series for your example; Star Citizen: SQ42 and Mass Effect alone are very different games, let alone comparing to Starfield or No Man's Sky. If we're looking at this as a phenomena across all space games, rather than just a specific sub-genre, the cause is going to be common to all space games. That cause, IMO, is scope creep - and its a problem that does affect non-space games, however there's just more of those so we don't notice as much.

Older games were far more limited - by hardware, technology, development time & budget, and so on. This is across all genres. Newer games are able to achieve significantly more, with larger development teams, longer development cycles in some cases, significantly better hardware, better rendering, procedural generation, and game development technology, and so on. All genres have tried to make use of this as best they can, however space games are in a unique case of how extreme they can take the lack of limits. In your classic RPG, going open world might mean you're limited to a single country, or continent. In space, the scope can creep to have the country, continent, planet, star system, and a good chunk of the galaxy too, all to a similar level of detail. The issues with a lot of games are far more pronounced with space games.

This increase in scope has led to a number of trends among modern gaming that contribute to a number of generally lower quality releases, especially in space games. Open world and non-linear games have taken over as they are where this new technology can really be shown off, however not all games, or developers, are equipped to properly handle these trends even on a smaller scale, let alone a larger one. It is very easy to have a very large world that feels empty, lifeless, directionless, boring, or many other similar adjectives. The problem is with both creating that much unique content so that you can't instantly latch onto the procedural generation patterns, while also structuring that much content into a compelling experience, rather than just throwing it onto the world.
This problem is also exaccerbated by the homogenisation of genres occuring in the modern era; every game must have RPG systems, open world exploration, non-linear segments, base building, crafting, and so on. Space, again, offers an open canvas for all of these to be thrown onto, and developing 20 different systems is going to mean they are each far less polished, far less engaging, and the whole experience is far less focused, than developing 3-5 systems.

Different games take different approaches to this problem, and often the more limited approaches IMO turn out better. As an example, Mass Effect 1 vs Mass Effect Andromeda. Both games had procedurally generated planets.
Mass Effect One didn't have the resources to really flesh them out, and thus put only a scattering of side content across some very basic, ok-sized procedural areas. The gameplay did not focus on these sections, and usually directed the player to engage with them in a structured way, if at all, before returning to the core structure of the game. You were not intended to spend a ton of time roaming around these planets between missions, but you could if and when you wanted to.
Mass Effect Andromeda did have the resources to flesh out the procedural zones. And so they did, consuming a lot of development resources in the process. This is where the focus on creating content went, and thus where the game focused the player to spend their time. Pure linear sections were much rarer, and instead you often had objectives scattered across the procedural zone, and had to trek through it to continue with a linear plotline. This put the focus on the procedural zone, and in doing so reduced the ability of the player to control when they engaged with different types of content; you were always engaged with the slower exploratory content, and locking into a more focused narrative section of content could take far longer. Further, trying to produce so much semi-handcrafted content clearly stretched the team thin. This resulted in a game that did not play to the narrative strengths of Bioware, and instead diluted them. This is without touching on any franchise-specific issues with the game, like how ME3's endings forced a large distance between 4 and the other trilogy to avoid narrative conflicts.

Starfield seems to have similar problems, but from the other side. People complain on the one hand about loading screens, and the game not being truly open world. Clearly, the expectation is for such games to have this huge glut of continuous map size. On the other hand, there are also a lot of complaints about repetitive content already that would only get worse with more game world for the developers to try and fill. Despite their previous experience, Bethesda were not equipped to create this scale of open world, and in increasing the scale they lost some of the freedom, and a lot of the attention to detail and density, that people have liked about previous Bethesda titles.
No Mans Sky was in a similar situation at launch; it created too much stuff, but the game itself wasn't engaging to be in. For some it is now fixed, however that really depends on what you want out of the genre.

Star Citizen takes another approach that clearly also has its problems; they claim to be fully filling out this whole world with all the content necessary and having it all done properly in an engaging manner. Its been in development for over a decade and is still nowhere even close to done. Honestly, it probably never will be done.

The great space games of the past had something in common IMO; a focused experience. Some focused on dogfights in a linear, mission-based structure. Some focused on trading and basic exploration. Some were narrative RPGs. Some were focused on being open sandboxes in space - usually ignoring the planets to make this possible. Each game, however, was technologically limited from expanding the scope too far, and focused on the core appeal of their game. Modern games, especially space games, often try to do it all; procedural planets, procedural star systems, thousands of them, crafting, often base building, a core story supposed to be compelling, freedom to do whatever you want - and so on. If developers focused on a specific experience, rather than trying to combine everything, we'd have better games in general IMO.

That said, some great space games have come out in the 2010s. Outer Wilds for one is great. But a lot of the big, do everything space games have been disappointing - which IMO only supports the idea that the problem is trying to do everything. Narrow the scope, and you can get a much better experience.
 

Ag3ma

Elite Member
Jan 4, 2023
2,574
2,209
118
There are some really good points here, especially that it's very problematic to mix game genres. If you wanted a good space sim, Elite: Dangerous and I think it was X4 should have scratched your itch. Mass Effect was fine as an RPG. And so on.

And you are I think right that some developers may be struggling for what to do with their creations. Space is big. Really big. Developers therefore may feel the need to give that sense of expanse, but doing so is incredibly difficult as it would take vast resources to custom design everything, and proc gen necessarily creates limitations and some degree of blandness.

Skyrim, for instance, occupies an area notionally comparable to a European country, albeit heavily scaled down. Even a space RPG that was just the solar system would have to model the entire Earth, or else restrict access to Earth (Starfield, for instance, has Earth rendered completely barren), so couldn't possibly manage the detail of Skyrim across such a wide area.

Also Starfield is worse than I heard it was, I recently saw the angry joe review and I was surprised. It legit sounds a lot worse than both fallout 4 and skyrim.
It is worse that Fallout 4 and Skyrim, at least in some key ways - that's a lot of its reputational problem. And certainly for a game that should have the benefit of quite a few years more technology than its predecessors. The more I think about Starfield, the more I think it's a "gap-filler" whilst its two main IPs are on single-player cooldown due to the online variants, and as a "trial run" for new technology (apparently it was the first using the next iteration of their Creation engine).

However, at the same time I think the fact it has fallen well short of greatness and the expectations of its predecessors has led to a lot of excessive hostility - the classic issue of falling short of the hype. It is, as the end of the day, a solid enough gaming experience for the money.
 

Dreiko

Elite Member
Legacy
May 1, 2020
3,036
1,049
118
CT
Country
usa
Gender
male, pronouns: your majesty/my lord/daddy
It is worse that Fallout 4 and Skyrim, at least in some key ways - that's a lot of its reputational problem. And certainly for a game that should have the benefit of quite a few years more technology than its predecessors. The more I think about Starfield, the more I think it's a "gap-filler" whilst its two main IPs are on single-player cooldown due to the online variants, and as a "trial run" for new technology (apparently it was the first using the next iteration of their Creation engine).

However, at the same time I think the fact it has fallen well short of greatness and the expectations of its predecessors has led to a lot of excessive hostility - the classic issue of falling short of the hype. It is, as the end of the day, a solid enough gaming experience for the money.

I personally wasn't at all hyped since I don't even have a system to play it on in the first place, but I was still somehow disappointed lol. I guess I was hoping it'd be a game worth getting a system over, which I have done in the past.


Though my biggest issue with the game is more about what it represents about bethesda, and my continuously growing feeling of them just having lost their touch due to a focus on mmos and so on. It's like seeing a beautiful statue that while not perfect had a lot going for it getting progressively more and more decayed and crumbling.

Ah well, at least they ported skyrim to ps5, so there's that lol.
 

Drathnoxis

I love the smell of card games in the morning
Legacy
Sep 23, 2010
5,924
2,172
118
Just off-screen
Country
Canada
Gender
Male
That said, some great space games have come out in the 2010s. Outer Wilds for one is great. But a lot of the big, do everything space games have been disappointing - which IMO only supports the idea that the problem is trying to do everything. Narrow the scope, and you can get a much better experience.
Good post, I've missed reading your comments here.

Outer Wilds is great, but it takes great pains to reduce the scope of space unlike a lot of other games. Because all the planets are Mario Galaxy sized, you get all the fun of exploring weird new worlds without it turning into a mindless unending slog like games attempting to be anything resembling realistic end up being.
 

sXeth

Elite Member
Legacy
Nov 15, 2012
3,301
676
118
There are some really good points here, especially that it's very problematic to mix game genres. If you wanted a good space sim, Elite: Dangerous and I think it was X4 should have scratched your itch. Mass Effect was fine as an RPG. And so on.

And you are I think right that some developers may be struggling for what to do with their creations. Space is big. Really big. Developers therefore may feel the need to give that sense of expanse, but doing so is incredibly difficult as it would take vast resources to custom design everything, and proc gen necessarily creates limitations and some degree of blandness.

Skyrim, for instance, occupies an area notionally comparable to a European country, albeit heavily scaled down. Even a space RPG that was just the solar system would have to model the entire Earth, or else restrict access to Earth (Starfield, for instance, has Earth rendered completely barren), so couldn't possibly manage the detail of Skyrim across such a wide area.



It is worse that Fallout 4 and Skyrim, at least in some key ways - that's a lot of its reputational problem. And certainly for a game that should have the benefit of quite a few years more technology than its predecessors. The more I think about Starfield, the more I think it's a "gap-filler" whilst its two main IPs are on single-player cooldown due to the online variants, and as a "trial run" for new technology (apparently it was the first using the next iteration of their Creation engine).

However, at the same time I think the fact it has fallen well short of greatness and the expectations of its predecessors has led to a lot of excessive hostility - the classic issue of falling short of the hype. It is, as the end of the day, a solid enough gaming experience for the money.
I mean, the general summary of Starfield I'd say is its trying to wobble itself into hard sci-fi but without actually putting the effort into the "hard" part.

Which gives you a thing that is simultaneously grounded and struggling to be interesting, but lacks any of the depth of detail or logical consistencies that would tie that sort of idea together.

And yeah, its also trying to be sprawling, when most of those harder sci-fi stories definitely don't sprawl or have that sort of day to day between different planets and ships, because it requires a lot of handwaved effectively magic tech to make that sort of space setting hold together.
 

Hawki

Elite Member
Legacy
Mar 4, 2014
9,651
2,177
118
Country
Australia
Gender
Male
This is all over the place, but:

I wish "Mass Effect 4" could have been more like "BSG" or "The Expanse" than "Mass Effect Andromeda".


Okay, but really, neither BSG or The Expanse is anywhere like Mass Effect bar the basic premise of being set in space. ME is more in the vein of storytelling as Star Trek and Babylon 5.


The mid to late 2010s should have seen a cinematic space adventure game that at least received 8/10 reviews and had a serious sci fi story.
Problem being that hard sci-fi is harder to make a game around.

No, but being fundamentally about futuristic robotics does.
How? Most sci-fi that deals with robotics as its central theme rarely goes beyond the surly bonds of gravity.
 

laggyteabag

Scrolling through forums, instead of playing games
Legacy
Oct 25, 2009
3,376
1,077
118
UK
Gender
He/Him
This unironically looks just like the CoD Infinite Warfare campaign

Otherwise, I guess one of the major issues of space games is scope. You can either reach for the stars, and have thousands or millions of planets (like Starfield and No Mans Sky) but developers simply don't have the time or resources to make the vast, vast majority of planets interesting, as you have to rely on algorithms like procedural generation to do the bulk of the work. Or you can limit the scope of the game to half a dozen or so hand-crafted planets, but that kind of "kills the dream" of a space game where you can go anywhere you want.

I think the only game that has ever really found a good balance that we can adequately achieve today, would be Mass Effect 1, where there was a nice handful of handcrafted locations where the bulk of the story takes place (Citadel, Noveria, Feros, etc), and then a dozen or so, so-called "Uncharted Worlds" that you are free to explore, and still have a couple of points of interest. Obviously ME1 still leaves a *lot* to be desired in terms of level design, asset re-use, etc, but I think that this would be a much more achievable scope, rather than having an infinite amount of worlds with very little to do on any of them.

To achieve what games like No Man's Sky or Starfield promise, but with actually worthwhile results, we'll probably have to wait for much more powerful hardware, and much more robust procedural generation techniques before this type of game can finally exist without too many compromises.

That said, im kind of curious to see what Starfield looks like in a decade, when full mod support has long-since been available, and modders have been able to create their own bespoke environments/scenarios/stories on these 1000 empty planets. Let the community flesh out what the developers couldn't achieve. Classic Bethesda "game design".
 
Last edited:

sXeth

Elite Member
Legacy
Nov 15, 2012
3,301
676
118
This unironically looks just like the CoD Infinite Warfare campaign

Otherwise, I guess one of the major issues of space games is scope. You can either reach for the stars, and have thousands or millions of planets (like Starfield and No Mans Sky) but developers simply don't have the time or resources to make the vast, vast majority of planets interesting, as you have to rely on algorithms like procedural generation to do the bulk of the work. Or you can limit the scope of the game to half a dozen or so hand-crafted planets, but that kind of "kills the dream" of a space game where you can go anywhere you want.
Yeah I would generally myself definte the "space game" as the OP put it to have some sort of emphasis or key componet on the space travel or the space environment.

So things like Doom, Outer Worlds, Deep Rock Galactic, Armored Core, Alien (whatever), and probably even Mass Effect where they take place in space, but you don't really interact with the space part don't generally mesh.

Whereas stuff like No Mans Sky, Starfield, X4, Elite, Rebel Galaxy, Hardspace Shipbreaker, Astroneer et all are much engaged with the space as a game element (quality aside), rather then simply a setting that holds different levels in which a more generalized game takes place.

(Theres also a whole sidebar of strategy/grand strategy games that I am thorughly uneducated on to try and sort lol)