Why illegalizing guns will not work in the U.S

[Nouw]

IF not... remember the prohibition, this would be exactly like that, except with even more shooting people and less parties.

That's really quotable, just wanted to tell you that . Perhaps guns aren't quite on par with alcohol but I can definitely see where you're coming from.

 

[Not Matt]

guns are built to kill. No need for another argument, "I have the right to owns gun" doesn't mean ANYTHING compared to the well-being of peoples lives.

 

[CpT_x_Killsteal]

Ban everything except hunting rifles with no more than 5 rounds per clip and handguns.

Problem solved, any moron who disagrees to that is either too stupid or selfish to own a gun

 

[Friendly Lich]

Ban everything except hunting rifles with no more than 5 rounds per clip and handguns.

Problem solved, any moron who disagrees to that is either too stupid or selfish to own a gun

Ok, *snaps fingers* done do you want me to end world hunger while I'am at it?

 

[CpT_x_Killsteal]

Ban everything except hunting rifles with no more than 5 rounds per clip and handguns.

Problem solved, any moron who disagrees to that is either too stupid or selfish to own a gun

Ok, *snaps fingers* done do you want me to end world hunger while I'am at it?

Why yes. Also, while you're at it, Increase taxes on the rich and create a Universal Karma System that affects all human beings.

Thankyou for your help

 

[Rigs83]

You talk about removing guns from private owners like it'd be impossible- I present to you this. Give them insintive- Give them a chance to turn them in for money, any that don't have their's taken away by force, preferably by the Military. What are they going to do? Shoot the soldiers at their door who are armed to the teeth?

Actually the whole Revolution kind of started in Lexington, MA when a bunch of British soldiers showed to take away the colonists guns so yeah you do shoot the soldier who shows up at your door. If the American soldier was so superior why is Vietnam not the 51st state?

Have fun dying in a hail of lead and glory.

And the kill ratios in Vietnam were so slanted toward the US it wasn't even funny. It came down to a simple wait game and the Vietnamese had more patience.

Tactics wins battles but logistics wins wars. The British had the greatest navy and army two hundred years ago and they won nearly every battle but ultimately lost because the logistics of maintaining control over the colonies strained them too much so the whole revolution cost the British more than it was worth. The same scenario repeated in Vietnam with the US taking the position of the British. If your opponent has nothing to lose but everything to gain the kill ratio does not matter to quote

"We shall defend our island, whatever the cost may be, we shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; we shall never surrender."
Winston Churchill

That kind of fanaticism to something can't be shot and only a fool would plunge their country into civil war to make it more "safe".

 

[Rigs83]

Ban everything except hunting rifles with no more than 5 rounds per clip and handguns.

Problem solved, any moron who disagrees to that is either too stupid or selfish to own a gun

Yes because Americans would never illegally modify a gun.

 

[wulfy42]

Um, how about you just make it illegal to SELL guns?

Nowhere in the constitution does it say you have the right to sell guns, just to own them heh.

So make it illegal to sell guns without going through a long process (background check on the person wanting to buy the gun for one).

No worries about having to raid houses to find guns etc, all you got to do is shut down all the gun shows. Yes, there will still be tons of guns in America for a long time, but offer buy back policies for guns, confiscate all guns used in crimes etc and you'll whittle down the problem quickly.

You can own a gun just fine, but the trasnport of guns into america would be illegal, the selling of guns in America without following a very stringent set of rules would be illegal and any guns used in a crime of any sort would be confiscated.

Would that solve all the problems? Nope, but it would be a good start.

 

[invadergir]

Conservatives have painted the gun-control movement as storm troopers who want to take away all the guns.

They refuse to have an honest debate about the subject.

 

[CpT_x_Killsteal]

Ban everything except hunting rifles with no more than 5 rounds per clip and handguns.

Problem solved, any moron who disagrees to that is either too stupid or selfish to own a gun

Yes because Americans would never illegally modify a gun.

Then set a maximum clip size for handguns too, aswell as full-auto modifications.

 

[AldUK]

The US doesn't care anymore. Has long stop caring, within a week this would be a memory, that anyone can barely remember, as they continue with their lives. The pro-gun movement would have gain more allies, and the gun control groups shall once again be at a lost. I keep telling people this, but seems like the Gun control group can't get it through their thick skulls. Your issue is dead in America, they are moving pro-gun. Their is nothing you can do, it is part of culture right now. The sooner you get that, the sooner you can move on to bigger and better things, like the fiscal cliff that no one seems to want to solve.

I've noticed that every single one of your posts in regarding this topic are basically the same. "There's no point arguing about it, there's nothing we can do, it's just the way it is." Well news flash buddy, not everyone is willing to accept mass murder as daily life. Some of us get downright pissed off at little kids being shot and wish the government and society had the decency to stand up and say; "enough is enough."

If you have nothing to bring to this debate except, "there is no debate." Then why are you even posting?

 

[Rigs83]

guns are built to kill. No need for another argument, "I have the right to owns gun" doesn't mean ANYTHING compared to the well-being of peoples lives.

Right now the biggest killer in Americas is overdose from pharmaceuticals [http://lifeabundantly-alim.blogspot.com/2012/06/fda-admits-100000-prescription-drug.html]. America has put profit over the peoples' well being for centuries, slavery anyone, and as we speak Big Pharma [http://thephoenix.com/Boston/news/145950-prescription-opioids-have-wreaked-havoc-on-the-bay/] trying to make us all addicts and killing 100,000 a year to do it, and Matt they want the children.

 

[Gnoekeos]

I'll have to repeat myself from your other topic, because my point still stands.

Ban all guns! Ignore the fact that there are literally millions, if not billions, of guns in the U.S., a good deal of which are in the hands of private owners! The U.K. did it! Never mind the fact that the U.K. has about a quarter of the population and 2 percent of the area. If one country can do it, every country can!

Ignore the fact that there are literally millions if not billions of guns in the us? You see that's kind of the point, the vast majority of those guns have angry gun nut hands to hold them. How do you propose to get the people who believe its their god given right to own all the overpowered weapons they want to give up their guns?

 

[Rigs83]

Ban everything except hunting rifles with no more than 5 rounds per clip and handguns.

Problem solved, any moron who disagrees to that is either too stupid or selfish to own a gun

Yes because Americans would never illegally modify a gun.

Then set a maximum clip size for handguns too, aswell as full-auto modifications.

The whole point is that that video shows an illegal mod already. You can't have that drum mod in almost any state north of the Mason-Dixon line but he or someone he knew did it anyway. Illegal mods to guns are decades old, some whackos melt down quarters to make steel bullets that go through armor, laws are only as good as there enforcement and cops are getting there budgets slashed everywhere. If you want to stop gun violence banning guns don't work but making gun use like smoking may. What I mean is that you use culture to help solve the problem. Decades ago everyone smokes and now almost no one does and those that do are almost pariahs and the revenues from taxing cigarettes helps pay for the negative ads attacking smoking. Do that and you help get rid of guns not through law but through cultural shifts to something else like ninja stars. Yeah make ninja stars the new guns.

 

[Jubbert]

If I get attacked or my home gets invaded, I want a firearm to defend myself with. If someone directly threats my life or the life of another, then I want a way to stop that person from harming others. I wish that the principle or another teacher at that elementary school had an accessible firearm, he or she could have killed or badly wounded the shooter and saved lives.

 

[CpT_x_Killsteal]

Ban everything except hunting rifles with no more than 5 rounds per clip and handguns.

Problem solved, any moron who disagrees to that is either too stupid or selfish to own a gun

Yes because Americans would never illegally modify a gun.

Then set a maximum clip size for handguns too, aswell as full-auto modifications.

The whole point is that that video shows an illegal mod already. You can't have that drum mod in almost any state north of the Mason-Dixon line but he or someone he knew did it anyway. Illegal mods to guns are decades old, some whackos melt down quarters to make steel bullets that go through armor, laws are only as good as there enforcement and cops are getting there budgets slashed everywhere. If you want to stop gun violence banning guns don't work but making gun use like smoking may. What I mean is that you use culture to help solve the problem. Decades ago everyone smokes and now almost no one does and those that do are almost pariahs and the revenues from taxing cigarettes helps pay for the negative ads attacking smoking. Do that and you help get rid of guns not through law but through cultural shifts to something else like ninja stars. Yeah make ninja stars the new guns.

That's... a really good idea! I never thought of that before!

A couple of holes though. There are no positive arguments for smoking though, but for guns people say they're "cool and it's my right etc, etc," those arguments are all dumb as holy fuck, but there are still people stupid enough that make them. And then there are of course those who profit off of weapons and such.

Not to mention the republican political party (I'm talking about the pollies not the people) that'll have a massive cry over it.

 

[Not Matt]

guns are built to kill. No need for another argument, "I have the right to owns gun" doesn't mean ANYTHING compared to the well-being of peoples lives.

Right now the biggest killer in Americas is overdose from pharmaceuticals [http://lifeabundantly-alim.blogspot.com/2012/06/fda-admits-100000-prescription-drug.html]. America has put profit over the peoples' well being for centuries, slavery anyone, and as we speak Big Pharma [http://thephoenix.com/Boston/news/145950-prescription-opioids-have-wreaked-havoc-on-the-bay/] trying to make us all addicts and killing 100,000 a year to do it, and Matt they want the children.

yes. but that doesn't change that fact that guns are built to kill and medicine is made to heal.

And now that i have gotten that obvious fact out in the open let's get on the same side and talk about this the nr 1 killer. I have stopped trusting the medicine industry. or at least the parts that aren't basic. after they came up with seasonal affective disorder[footnote]feeling of depression that start at the end October and last til about February/marsh....That's called winter! and there is a pill for winter now. and it gives you Chest pains, Dizziness, lightheadedness, fainting, Cold, tingling, or numbness in the hands or feet, asthma, heart failure, Confusion, irregular heartbeat, Signs of an allergic reaction, including unexplained rash, hives, itching, unexplained swelling, wheezing, or difficulty breathing or swallowing,anal leakage and depression(it counteracts itself) and death. All because you could't put on a happy face for Christmas[/footnote]they have completely spiraled out of control, making up new (completely bogus) diseases for which we have more and more dangerous medications. If anyone had bothered to read the bottles the world would have been operating on chicken soup for the rest of eternity. when you think of it. this is technically a form of suicide

and guns may not be the biggest killer but giving them to people isn't a particularly good idea. why do people actually need guns?

(i am done ranting now, sorry if i come of as a bit of a grump)

 

[Arfonious]

This thread, like every other of its kind, prooves that gun owning is woven too deep into the American culture for people to even consider taking an opposite view of the problem.

 

[the clockmaker]

Okay, some points,
1- It is not just the UK that has banned guns, Australia,(which is roughly the same size as the US by the way) banned its guns years ago, and while the US has more people, it also has a fuckton more police, so, you know per capita versus total and all that. Germany also has much more restrictive laws without flat out banning them, so there is another option. New zealand's laws are focused on the owner rather than the object which is a further option.

2- Criminals do not obey laws, this is true and a fact that is beloved by people who drop smug macros into discussions. However, if we stop and consider the actual ramifications of this, it becomes pretty goddamn irrelevant.
- If someone has an illegal firearm, that is a crime and they can be stopped there and then as opposed to simply letting them walk on.
- It will slow down or limit the permeation of these weapons (not eliminate, no one is claiming that it will eliminate them)
- Someone who fits the profile of a spree killer (isolated, angry, feels like they have been wronged) suddenly aquiring a weapon becomes a bigger red flag and they are more likely to be stopped.
- From what I can see, it is rarely career criminals that conduct these crimes and so average joe blog on the street is unlikely to know where to get a hold of illegal assault weaponry.
- Someone who is in need of mental help, and is likely to commit violent suicide by attacking those near themselves, is less likely to have a weapon to hand when they snap.
- Criminals, are, for the most part, profit motivated human beings. Someone who is already hiding from the law is not going to assist someone who will draw attention to themselves
- Criminals are often quite reasonable and are unlikely to support the person who is likely to gun down more than a dozen children.
- Not all people who commit these crimes use their own weapons, so if their friends and family do not own them, it is harder for the criminal to obtain it.

3- There is no need to immediately ban all guns, that is impractical, what needs to happen is a staged drawdown of firearm ownership, starting with making them illegal to sell, running buybacks and making it clear that, for example, your assault rifle will be illegal in five years time, but you have five years to obtain a weapon more suitable for hunting and will be provided proper training in the storage and security of your remaining weapons.

I like how people studiously ignored this because acknowledging it would mean they'd have to stop saying "herp derp, UK is smaller than M'erika" and other such bullshit.

Good post with good points. But good luck trying to get people to admit that.

Eh, I'm sure that one day one person will step up and point out why my post is wrong in a logical manner, but until then, I use this place as a proving ground for my points, if no one slaps them down, then they tend to be pretty firm.

Capatcha- good for nothing... fuck you capatcha, what are you good for, HUH?!

 

[Insanity72]

I don't mind if people want to own handguns for protection and Rifles/shotguns for shooting ranges or hunting. But I don't think there is any good reason for someone to own any kind of automatic weapon.