Why is armor so freaking ornate in fantasy?
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I never get bothered by elaborate designs, usually, I mean something that looks stupid to me may look the sex to someone else, a lot of armor in WoW comes to mind.
What usually gets to me is when the colors clash really hard or are just flat out unpleasant.. Like my shaman tier...9? I think, that stuff from the cop-out Colosseum in WOTLK. It had a color scheme resembling the bathroom floor of a frat house after a home-coming weekend.
I think it's a sad day that people are actually calling out for more drab, boring, and realistic armor in our fantasy. But, it does show a need for basically every game where your armor is visible on the character to have some sort of "appearance" tab so you can wear what you want and hide what you don't.
What usually gets to me is when the colors clash really hard or are just flat out unpleasant.. Like my shaman tier...9? I think, that stuff from the cop-out Colosseum in WOTLK. It had a color scheme resembling the bathroom floor of a frat house after a home-coming weekend.
I think it's a sad day that people are actually calling out for more drab, boring, and realistic armor in our fantasy. But, it does show a need for basically every game where your armor is visible on the character to have some sort of "appearance" tab so you can wear what you want and hide what you don't.
I see Your Engra and rise it with my favourite WH40K mock up, the one, the only...Mathak said:Tschk. I present thee Engra Deathsword. Champion of the Dark Gods, Destroyer of Praag.
Now that is ornate armour.
The armour to rule them all. It's pauldorns even have their own pauldrons!
Agree with OP very much. Just the sight of those god awful, over-elaborate designs is enough to put me off of a fantasy game. In fact, I'm not a big fan of armour at all, as they often cover up the character's uniquely crafted appearance or silhouette (unless the character was originally dressed in armour to begin with).
Simply stated, it's an aesthetic design choice. In pretty much every fantasy RPG you as the player are supposed to be a badass invincible warrior, mage or whatever and the apparel you wear should reflect that. After all, would trust the faith of the world onto the guy with the T-shirt and jeans or the dude who looks like he merged with a tank? Though to be fair I've talked to half the Jarls in Skyrim while in my underwear but that's another matter entirely...
I say you missed the point because you suggested that the genre being fantasy automatically excuses ugly design, you latched onto the "realism" aspect when that wasn't his point at all. Art design does not necessarily correlate with realism and even the concept of "realism" has multiple different connotations that people tend to pick and choose. Despite being "fantasy", almost all of these games are grounded in a basic reality that includes familiar scientific and cultural norms based on our own sense of realism. So the "realism" retort doesn't work and is unrelated to his point.ElPatron said:
I say you overreacted because he specifically said "WOW atleast helped to make it mainstream" and you ignored the word "helped" in favor of spite. WoW is the most mainstream fantasy video game ever made, it most certainly helps establish what is popular in other fantasy games. That's how pop culture works. He wasn't insulting WoW at all.
On this subject, all that needs to be said is that I don't play games so they can bore me with realistic grey, brown, and silver "practical" armors the entire time. If I want those, I'll read a history book. Give me something cool and interesting, because it's a video game and it's supposed to be fun.
Two thoughts; one practical, the other aesthetic.
First of all, when things are far away and in constant motion, it's important for a player to grasp--at a glance--what they are and what they're about, to prioritize the targets or suchlike. Lighting being what it is, we have to rely on silhouette, instead of color (or glow), and the elaboration is *a* way to make the elite stand out. In WoW, one of the reasons to hunt end-game things is the pretty colors. In other games, the Armor Class is reflected in armor's visual bulk, not its weight.
That said, exercise some restraint, for the love of god. Of war. Too many geegaws make a mess, not a display, and it really does look like someone sat down to design the armor and never f___in' stopped. If there are no spare blacksmiths, magic-forgers with nothing better to do, or animals with horns that look like that, then I, as the reader, can't just shrug it off. Maybe make it seem spare, to reflect an ascetic culture, or rusty, if things have decayed, or go overboard with "found" items if it's Mad-Max-ish, but have it fit the story.
First of all, when things are far away and in constant motion, it's important for a player to grasp--at a glance--what they are and what they're about, to prioritize the targets or suchlike. Lighting being what it is, we have to rely on silhouette, instead of color (or glow), and the elaboration is *a* way to make the elite stand out. In WoW, one of the reasons to hunt end-game things is the pretty colors. In other games, the Armor Class is reflected in armor's visual bulk, not its weight.
That said, exercise some restraint, for the love of god. Of war. Too many geegaws make a mess, not a display, and it really does look like someone sat down to design the armor and never f___in' stopped. If there are no spare blacksmiths, magic-forgers with nothing better to do, or animals with horns that look like that, then I, as the reader, can't just shrug it off. Maybe make it seem spare, to reflect an ascetic culture, or rusty, if things have decayed, or go overboard with "found" items if it's Mad-Max-ish, but have it fit the story.
The Winged Hussars had absolutely gorgeous armor. Those suits are awesome.Draech said:Well there is more to it.
Stuff like magic gives an extra element beyond function that cannot be broken down. Ritual suits has always been ornamental so its acceptable in that sence.
Then there is the ideas of uniforms. Funktion as well as being extravagant. Being being awe inspiring does have its advantages.
Ofc they can go to far, but its a hard line to walk.
If we're trying to come at this logically, it's because armour is often a sign of social status. Several hundred years ago, it would be perfectly normal to see generals strutting their stuff in magnificent looking, even if somewhat impractical armour, in order to denote their rank and power. In fact, you see it even today - a general will be dressed in many medals, with a cap, a fine suit etc as opposed to your average foot soldier.
However back then social status was a lot more important than it is today. It wasn't surprising to find affluent generals having as much power as a political figurehead. The armour is meant to display one's status and places you among the social elite as well as being a visual indicator to your men of your status to remind them of your position.
I say all this because fantasy tends to be heavily entrenched in 'old values' and typically set during some sort of medieval-esque era, and as such, these values such as one's armour representing social affluence would carry over into that world as much as other values like a high focus on religion or racial supremacy.
I can't for the life of me explain why your average bandit is seen wearing such armour as soon as you get to level 50, though. There's no logic for that. Just stick it down to game contrivances and move on.
However back then social status was a lot more important than it is today. It wasn't surprising to find affluent generals having as much power as a political figurehead. The armour is meant to display one's status and places you among the social elite as well as being a visual indicator to your men of your status to remind them of your position.
I say all this because fantasy tends to be heavily entrenched in 'old values' and typically set during some sort of medieval-esque era, and as such, these values such as one's armour representing social affluence would carry over into that world as much as other values like a high focus on religion or racial supremacy.
I can't for the life of me explain why your average bandit is seen wearing such armour as soon as you get to level 50, though. There's no logic for that. Just stick it down to game contrivances and move on.
I think A-symmetric shoulder pads can be quite good if they aren't on every damn suit of armour.Llil said:I like how that breastplate basically says "shoot me in my heart!"Weslebear said:Perfect:
And seriously, what's with the shoulderpads. Not just in those three you posted, but in general. Why are they never symmetric?
This. Totally this. Why are sets of armour so extravagant? Because they CAN BE. It's as simple as that. The developers aren't striving for realism - and since the function is often completely different from the appearance, they can effectively make whatever looks the most awesome.Mr.K. said:
Yeah I wouldn't really complain about fantasy armour being overly ornate when even standard armour isn't used realistically. Real full platemail knight vs knight sword combat would be a slow tedious affair where they bang their swords off each other until they collapse from exhaustion. Either you find a small vulnerable part in the armour, or your sword will just bounce right off it.
Gotta agree here. With all the complaining about FPS shooters focusing too much on realism, or authenticity, and the whining about chest-high walls on this site. It amazes me that here we have a thread whining about something that gets away from boring, brown realism.believer258 said:
Can we make up our minds already?
Do we want realism or creativity?
Pick one!
And don't go saying, "Can't we have both?" because the answer is NO.
It's not really possible to have creativity when you have oppressive realism handing over head.
I agree with you, but only because I thought Skyrim and the setting they were going for was trying to be a more realistic and gritty take on the universe.
Once I got the Steel plated armor, I decided that it was a little bit too much for my taste. I even changed the difficulty from the second easiest difficulty to the easiest, just so I could wear lower brands of armor to look more like a bad ass.
I do agree that at a certain point, there is too much embroidery and flamboyant armor effects, and I think that Skyrim kinda reached that.
Once I got the Steel plated armor, I decided that it was a little bit too much for my taste. I even changed the difficulty from the second easiest difficulty to the easiest, just so I could wear lower brands of armor to look more like a bad ass.
I do agree that at a certain point, there is too much embroidery and flamboyant armor effects, and I think that Skyrim kinda reached that.
For Skyrim and other Bethesda RPGs, I really think this is a non-issue since you have the option of playing in first person. It gives you all of the advantages of the flamboyant armors without having to look at the ones you don't like aesthetically. As for fantasy games where you can't look anywhere but at the armor...I imagine they make it look fantastic so as to keep with the overall fantasy theme. Nothing is really practical about equipment in fantasy.
Yes they are.Soviet Heavy said:
I agree with the OP, at least in those fantasy games where absolutely everything isn't styled to the point of cartoonishness. There are a lot of very ornate, practical armour and weaponry that were used in various historical periods. I got to see an exhibition at the Philadelphia Museum of Art on just that, it was fantastic. Not a ridiculous shoulder spike in sight, either. The problem is that to remain practical, a lot of that adornment has to be very subtle, like fine engraving or slight differences in luster and shape. Some of that is just hard to render, and some of it just isn't showy enough for fantasy gamers..