Why is Being Nuetral in GamerGate a bad thing?

grassgremlin

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I need to open a discussion on the concept of neutrality in gamer gate.
Originally, I was going to make this topic unrelated, but for the sake of being specific, I decided on being clearer.

Why are people so obsessed with people taking sides?
Why do people openly criticize those on both sides of this argument when they decide to take a nuetral stance.

In my own experiences, this is what I realized. The way the majority of the gaming press has handled gamer gate is appalling for me. There's this strong inability to give anyone the benefit of the doubt.

All I see is overgeneralization of groups and lumping pretty much anyone they find so much as says the words I disagree right into the crowd.

When someone tries to say they are nuetral to the subject, they are immediately thrown to the Gamergate side and viciously attacked and criticizing for having the audacity to not be in your side.

Now, Gamergate. Never had I witnessed so a inept attitude towards how they treat people who disagree with them. They demand freedom of speech but without the consequences. They tell you to grow a thicker skin because they don't know how human beings work.

And yes, this comes directly from some videos I've watched for Gamer Gate. It's great you're fighting for journalism, but you're also quite a great deal assholes. How the hell can anyone possibly listen to you when you speak to them in such a condescending manner.

No wonder neither side listens to each other, because no one speaks rationally. They speak in a patronizing manner with there heads so far up the rear they're kissing intestines.

The thing about intelligence or the illusion of intelligence is that people have this habit of looking down on anyone with even a base lack of knowledge on a particular subject.

If schools taught children that way, no one would learn.

-------

The problem with me being nuetral and seeing these points is the idea that because I say I'm nuetral, I'm against someone. I never fumed so much when Jim Sterling was attacked for his last two videos by pro gamergate people because, as they say, he's dodging the questions or some bullshit.

I never understood that mass assumption. He chose to not pick a side and you gave him one anyways. Total Biscuit makes a wordy response trying to be nuetral and is attacked for it. He said misogynistic things.

You can't win in nuetrality. You can't be rational. Maybe we can have a middle ground. Some of us don't want to be associated with a movement that is full of stigma. Locked in by where it started, incapable of leaving that shadow.

I don't hang with smelly decomposing corpses, I stay far away from them so I don't get the smell.
 

Xan Krieger

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I'm firmly on the side of "meh", I'm neutral in that I don't really care. I've been ignoring the whole thing and sticking to playing games instead of whatever that whole thing was about.
 

Aineko

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Of course it is fine being neutral, or indeed just not care about it. Unfortunately plenty of people on either side have a "with us or against us" mentality and it poisons the atmosphere. Of course, this is not particular just to the GamerGate debate, it happens in pretty much every discussion that gets very heated, especially online. I guess it is just a part of human society bleh
 

KokujinTensai

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OP it's perfectly fine to not care about any of this if you choose to. If you just want to ignore the whole thing and just talk about games then that's perfectly fine and don't let anyone else try to tell you otherwise.
 

Random Gamer

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Aineko said:
Unfortunately plenty of people on either side have a "with us or against us" mentality and it poisons the atmosphere. Of course, this is not particular just to the GamerGate debate, it happens in pretty much every discussion that gets very heated, especially online. I guess it is just a part of human society bleh
Exactly.
I mean, we're gamers and I understand people not giving a damn or just wanting to play.

What might upset some people is if you're neutral, come into a GG thread, and say "why are you doing this, it's pointless, just let it go" - I think it wouldn't be welcome with open arms by either side, but might win you a not-carefully-crafter rebuttal by a few.

And if I wanted to be cynical, I'll say that neutral people are good, because it means at least one person less that is fighting from the other side.
 

Mezahmay

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This is how radicals work whenever anything vaguely political or ideological comes around. For example, the Compromise of 1850 in American history. The compromise before it was the Missouri Compromise in 1820, which set the precedent at the time of admitting one free state per slave state that joined the United States so that the influence of one side did not outweigh the other. It is considered now as an effort spearheaded by Senators Henry Clay, John C. Calhoun, and Daniel Webster. They were from all over the political spectrum and through discussion they managed to get majority involvement to agree to the Missouri Compromise line. The Compromise of 1850 in comparison was less of a compromise and more of radicals throwing their demands out into Congress, then Stephen Douglas came along and wrapped those demands together into a pretty package and called it a compromise. The latter solved nothing, it just diffused a bit of the immediate tension without thought of longer term consequences or diplomacy. The 1850 Compromise was also originally drafted by Henry Clay iirc, but his original terms could not receive enough votes for proper ratification.
 

MysticSlayer

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Assuming the person claiming neutrality isn't a completely ignorant moron who misrepresents both sides so badly that they should have never opened their mouth to begin with...

It is hard to be perfectly neutral on any subject. You could just say that you don't like the people on either side, but that's not dealing with the actual issues, just the people voicing them. You could say that you're just apathetic, but that's generally taken as a sign of not being bothered enough by the way things are, which often will lead to being associated with whatever group most agrees with the way things currently are. And since no one is 100% neutral on an issue they care about (anyone who says they are is lying to themselves), anyone who isn't apathetic will often give signs towards the side that they lean the most towards. This will obviously anger one side, but those on the side you lean closest towards will probably view you as harming the side since you are "one of them" but are speaking against them, which is probably viewed as "giving ammo" to the side you aren't as fond of.

Now, there might be legitimate reasons to not really jump into discussions. Personally, I just don't have the time to have certain discussions, and GamerGate is certainly one of those discussions. However, regardless of whether the reason is good or not, it is probably best not to insert yourself into the discussion for no other reason than to voice neutrality. At best you'll just be viewed as a self-aware, ignorant individual that is "seeking knowledge", which is itself not really a good position to be in.

Edit: I should also say that you could always be part of a third side, but that's not really neutral. It's just one more side for people to join or argue against.
 

Erttheking

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Because if you're neutral, you're not supporting the completely right side and what the hell is wrong with you?

People get pretty self rightious sometimes. And anyone who's taking one side over the other in gamergate, don't you dare think that the other one is the unreasonable one that I'm talking about. I'm talking about both. The pro-gamer gate side has way too much hate and jumping to conclusions going on, as well as more than a bit of misogynistic tones, while there's too much bullshit generally going on for me to get behind anti-gamer gate.

So news flash, the entire human race fucking sucks.
 

Mikeybb

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Aug 19, 2014
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If someone wishes to be neutral through this, it's a choice I can empathize with and, to an extent envy and ultimately respect.

There is a great deal of partisan attitude prevalent throughout both sides of this thing and, in some people, it's strong enough to allow the rationalization that if you aren't with them then you are against them.

It's not a helpful way of thinking, whether your anti or pro gamergate.
Much better to respect the decision of any individual who does claim either apathy or neutrality to the issue, rather than press them when they've declared their stance.
 

Jamieson 90

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I've been living under a rock for the past two months (real life has been really shit and busy), so could someone please explain what Gamer Gate is?
 

Zontar

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Jamieson 90 said:
I've been living under a rock for the past two months (real life has been really shit and busy), so could someone please explain what Gamer Gate is?
It's basically one side which is against corruption in games journalism and want ethics that standard journalists have to be followed. It all started from an incident which happened which where was a massive attempt to censor it by moderators around different sites (including 4chan). One thing of note, though, is that the incident which stated this was much like the assassination at the start of the first world war, it's what set it off but the real issue has long since passed being about that.
 

Aineko

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Jamieson 90 said:
I've been living under a rock for the past two months (real life has been really shit and busy), so could someone please explain what Gamer Gate is?
There's a thread about it right next to this one. Read the two opening posts to get up to speed.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.860762-GamerGate-Discussion-Debate-and-Resources
 

Jamieson 90

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Zontar said:
Jamieson 90 said:
I've been living under a rock for the past two months (real life has been really shit and busy), so could someone please explain what Gamer Gate is?
It's basically one side which is against corruption in games journalism and want ethics that standard journalists have to be followed. It all started from an incident which happened which where was a massive attempt to censor it by moderators around different sites (including 4chan). One thing of note, though, is that the incident which stated this was much like the assassination at the start of the first world war, it's what set it off but the real issue has long since passed being about that.
Aineko said:
Jamieson 90 said:
I've been living under a rock for the past two months (real life has been really shit and busy), so could someone please explain what Gamer Gate is?
There's a thread about it right next to this one. Read the two opening posts to get up to speed.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.860762-GamerGate-Discussion-Debate-and-Resources
Thank you, both of you.
 

grassgremlin

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MysticSlayer said:
Assuming the person claiming neutrality isn't a completely ignorant moron who misrepresents both sides so badly that they should have never opened their mouth to begin with...

It is hard to be perfectly neutral on any subject. You could just say that you don't like the people on either side, but that's not dealing with the actual issues, just the people voicing them. You could say that you're just apathetic, but that's generally taken as a sign of not being bothered enough by the way things are, which often will lead to being associated with whatever group most agrees with the way things currently are. And since no one is 100% neutral on an issue they care about (anyone who says they are is lying to themselves), anyone who isn't apathetic will often give signs towards the side that they lean the most towards. This will obviously anger one side, but those on the side you lean closest towards will probably view you as harming the side since you are "one of them" but are speaking against them, which is probably viewed as "giving ammo" to the side you aren't as fond of.

Now, there might be legitimate reasons to not really jump into discussions. Personally, I just don't have the time to have certain discussions, and GamerGate is certainly one of those discussions. However, regardless of whether the reason is good or not, it is probably best not to insert yourself into the discussion for no other reason than to voice neutrality. At best you'll just be viewed as a self-aware, ignorant individual that is "seeking knowledge", which is itself not really a good position to be in.

Edit: I should also say that you could always be part of a third side, but that's not really neutral. It's just one more side for people to join or argue against.
I'll lay down some demands and see how that stacks up to the movement.

Diversity = Good
Woman/minorities with actual personalities in my games = Good
Honest Journalism = Good
Less articles criticizing all gamers = Good
Opinion Pieces? = Sure, okay, have those. Just in moderation. Put them in a vlog, I dunno.
Journalism that sees issues from both sides = Good
Journalism Corruption? = Bad
Less Lazy writing in my video games = Good
Harassment = Bad
More different kinds of games = Yes

. . . so let's do that. It's all about gaming right?
I don't need all this politics, left or right, liberal or conservative crap.
I'm freaking independent anyways.

I mean, I just play cartoon/anime games, and games with cartoon animals, I dunno. More of that would be nice.
I wish devs didn't spend so much time with realism and making everything like the movies.
 

Thorn14

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Its not.

But a lot of times I see "Well I don't pay attention to what is going on so *uninformed post/opinion*" so its just annoying.

It would be like me, who has ZERO knowledge of the Scotland thing decided to give my opinion on what is going on.
 

MysticSlayer

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grassgremlin said:
I'll lay down some demands and see how that stacks up to the movement.

Diversity = Good
Woman/minorities with actual personalities in my games = Good
Honest Journalism = Good
Less articles criticizing all gamers = Good
Opinion Pieces? = Sure, okay, have those. Just in moderation. Put them in a vlog, I dunno.
Journalism that sees issues from both sides = Good
Journalism Corruption? = Bad
Less Lazy writing in my video games = Good
Harassment = Bad
More different kinds of games = Yes
Unfortunately, while I'd imagine that both sides would agree to most of these, the problem comes down to specifics. Those specifics are where the disagreements comes from and, by extension, the occasional hatred being thrown around, and it would be very hard to find a solution that everyone on both sides agrees with when it comes to those specifics.
 

grassgremlin

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Thorn14 said:
Its not.

But a lot of times I see "Well I don't pay attention to what is going on so *uninformed post/opinion*" so its just annoying.

It would be like me, who has ZERO knowledge of the Scotland thing decided to give my opinion on what is going on.
No lie, I made an effort to dig deep into the movement on both sides actually. Watched the vids, following both sides.
Here's what really annoys me.

An internet personality saying all game journalists part of that mailing list should be fired . . . which is dumb, but he says that's how Gamer Gate will end. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QuHfu3W1BGE&list=UU-yewGHQbNFpDrGM0diZOLA

Gugh, what an idiot. I was already on his side, until he makes a second podcast where his asshole friend continues to call the lady he interviewed all kinds of names. The Jew part fucking killed me.

REALLY!? THIS IS WHY PEOPLE THINK GAMER GATE IS FULL OF TROLLS!

Zoe Quinn, continuing to tweet about Gamer's Gate even after the group says they won't be talking about her. I get it, you are being harassed. It's very terrible, it sucks, but why are you still leaping yourself in front of there arrows?

Block the smucks, ignore the assholes. Get off twitter. Fix some of the typos on your game.

I hate the idea of saying, grow a thicker skin, but usually people avoid harassment the best they can. She just keeps tweeting and retweeting these morons and assholes.

Has she been driven so crazy that she has to keep making them relevent?
When Jenn Frank was doing it, my friend stated it's because she was upset and traumatized, but please, no one is THAT traumatized. If you are? It's healthy to end the conversation, not feed it.