Why is fire not alive?

[Saevus]

I think someone in here asked why water, which is hydrogen and oxygen, doesn't burn like crazy. Short answer is because it's a stable molecule and fire doesn't cause electrolysis.

This entire thread is silly, and I applaud whoever it was that just quoted from a bio textbook and slammed the coffin shut on this ridiculous question.

 

[GammaChris]

It really comes down to one's own definition and open-mindedness about things. Scientifically and realistically, fire is not in any way, shape, or form alive, but if you think outside the box and look at it from a (very) different angle, I could see how one might philosophically argue its life. Those are some nice thoughts there, yup.

On a side note, it does make me a little sad to see people just shoot this notion down with their scientific mind-bullets. We all know fire is a chemical reaction and that it isn't alive, but you could at least take a moment and consider it.

 

[Flying-Emu]

*snipsnip*

Read back. If you actually read, you would've noticed that I was attempting to SHOW him that he was incorrect about respiration being required for life.

Please read before quoting me.

 

[Galaxialconda]

If it was it would be constantly screaming in agony because it was on fire =D

 

[Bocaj2000]

Consume =/= respirate; and no, you don't need oxygen to respirate

For aerobic resperation you need oxygen. Also, don't use semantics; you knew what I ment.

The Biological community changes all the time, text books have a shelf life of about 3 years because Biology is constantly changing. With that said, that article is 5 years old, and guess what? Viruses are no longer alive according to the scientific community, they have no DNA, and can not reproduce outside of a host cell.

Having no DNA only means that it has no genetic code. A living thing CAN have no genentic code, we just haven't found one yet. (alien?)

You need DNA in order to asexually reproduce, otherwise you aren't reproducing. Fire has no DNA, therefore, it ISN'T reproducing, this is a fact.

Why do you need DNA to reproduce? If there is no genetic code, the genetic code will be the same, right?

Hahaha. Flames are a collection of light and heat, the scientific reaction of combustion produces gas. They are the result of a chemical reaction between oxygen in the air and fuel.

I thought that it was ignited vapors that produces light and heat.

Cellulose is a carbohydrate, plants use lipids to help make up the double layer of the cell membrane, amino acids are used for making enzymes which are needed for cell processes, and plants use protein as a nitrogen source for growth. They get the nitrogen from the nitrates and sulfates in the soil.

Touche. However it isn't certain that ALL living things need them to survive, just what we've found. (alien life?)

For the record. I'm not arguing with you - I know that fire isn't alive. I'm just questioning what we are told. This is a fun discussion =D

 

[Jovlo]

*snipsnip*

Read back. If you actually read, you would've noticed that I was attempting to SHOW him that he was incorrect about respiration being required for life.

Please read before quoting me.

I read your post and I was only going further into it. Please don't see it as a personal attack because I never meant it like that.

 

[bad rider]

You don't need O2 to respirate (gaseous oxygen). Anaerobic respiration is the process of generating energy through the donation of electrons generated by oxidation of a nutrient to an external electron acceptor (other than oxygen). C6H12O6 + 3NO3- + 3H2O -> 6HCO3- + 3NH4+, ΔG0' = -1796 kJ. Sure there is Oxygen in those molecules but there is no Oxygen (O2) going into the equation.

Yeah but techniquely you can't use anarobic respiration due to the lactic acid build up. Besides anarobic respiration does occur when producing fire, take for instance the sun, it is essentially a giant fire ball, however it contains no oxygen however it continues to burn using fuel, thus anarobic respiration in fire. I don't really know how this is relevant but what the hell.

 

[iain62a]

Also, how do I make subscripts?

You don't (despite being able to make superscripts with [sup][/sup] tags). The closest you can get is using 'small' tags, [small][/small] so that you get CO[small]2[/small].

Thanks. Just wondering, because I couldn't find anything in the markup guide in the forum guide.

 

[Mrsoupcup]

Fire is a chemical reacion and pure thermal energy that consumes shit to keep burning. (kinda like my brother lol) energy and objects can have traits of life but they need all of them to be life.

 

[nekolux]

Living matter is known as protoplasm http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protoplasm
Fire doesn't have it therefore it's not alive.

You know when i read your OP basically what i saw was this :

If we take it that the current definition of living things does not apply then why cant we define fire as alive

Hmmm you know it's been awhile since i took a lesson in common sense but if you can endlessly manipulate a definition of a word then you can basically manipulate it to fit ANY parameters that you want it to, no?

Why can't people who are dead be alive? Think about it guys what if we dont count the FACT that they're tissues are rotting, they're no longer under going respiration and they have no neural impulses firing, they can no longer feel, their heart isn't beating. WHAT IF we discounted all that. Then why can't people who are dead be alive?

Also, fun fact. Fire does not reproduce.
Definition of reproduction from tfd :
Biology The sexual or asexual process by which organisms generate new individuals of the same kind; procreation.
Definition of organism from tfd :
1. An individual form of life, such as a plant, animal, bacterium, protist, or fungus; a body made up of organs, organelles, or other parts that work together to carry on the various processes of life.

You don't need O2 to respirate (gaseous oxygen). Anaerobic respiration is the process of generating energy through the donation of electrons generated by oxidation of a nutrient to an external electron acceptor (other than oxygen). C6H12O6 + 3NO3- + 3H2O -> 6HCO3- + 3NH4+, ΔG0' = -1796 kJ. Sure there is Oxygen in those molecules but there is no Oxygen (O2) going into the equation.

Yeah but techniquely you can't use anarobic respiration due to the lactic acid build up. Besides anarobic respiration does occur when producing fire, take for instance the sun, it is essentially a giant fire ball, however it contains no oxygen however it continues to burn using fuel, thus anarobic respiration in fire. I don't really know how this is relevant but what the hell.

C6H12O6 = Glucose. I'm pretty sure fire doesn't use glucose. Nor does it use water ( H20 ) or nitrate ( NO3 )

The reason why the sun doesn't need oxygen is because it doesn't Burn fuel it undergoes nuclear fusion http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_fusion

This is burning http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combustion 2 completely different processes.

Also another fun but off topic fact. As humans we do use anaerobic respiration, and yes there's a lactic acid build up. We deal with it. When you start jogging you burn a lot more energy then if you just laze around, the reason is because for anaerobic respiration the efficiency of energy released per glucose molecule is extremely low, but as you build up an oxygen deficit your body has no choice but to use it in order to supply you with enough energy.
http://www.delano.k12.mn.us/sitepages/pid1817.php

 

[Player 2]

Duh, fire isn't alive retard, everyone knows that

No DNA, does not fulfill conditions of life, is not a self replicating orgasm(quote)

its not a self replicating orgasm? you've tried?

 

[Stormcloud23]

Though the molecules in fire behave the same way as in a living being, it's only 'matter'. It needs presence of 'mind' to feel and to be alive. Fire isn't alive.

but not everything needs a mind to work. A plant doesn't really possess a mind and still is considered alive



The answer "yes" or "no" to this question depends upon definitions of "alive" and "life". If one takes "alive" to mean "possessing life", then no, fire can under no circumstances be "alive" in that life is an organic phenomenon comprised of goal-directed, self-interest action.

If one, however, takes "alive" to mean "having spirit or vigor", then in a manner of speaking, yes, a roaring fire can be "alive."

Be careful about the terms you use to ask a philosophical question; not all questions are necessarily metaphysical, but are sometimes linguistic mistakes.

The Seven Traits of Life

Sensitivity and reactivity to the environment and Capacity for adaption Fire reacts to changes in it's environment. it moves when wind blows, it changes color when it's fuel is changed. it burns in spheres in zero gravity.

Ingestion of substance for energy to function Fire externally (sort of) ingests fuel, and uses it to survive. whent he fuel runs out, the fire 'starves' and goes away.

Reproduction fire can move from one fuel source to another via wind or heat transfer, you end up with two flames instead of one.

Respiration fire uses oxygen in it's reactions, and therefore respires.

Emission of wastes fire gives off water and ash as it's products in most cases.

Internal Movement ever watch a fire burn? it certainly has internal movement.

Cellular Structure nope

so it depends how you look at it

 

[Lukeje]

Spoiler: Text

Though the molecules in fire behave the same way as in a living being, it's only 'matter'. It needs presence of 'mind' to feel and to be alive. Fire isn't alive.

but not everything needs a mind to work. A plant doesn't really possess a mind and still is considered alive



The answer "yes" or "no" to this question depends upon definitions of "alive" and "life". If one takes "alive" to mean "possessing life", then no, fire can under no circumstances be "alive" in that life is an organic phenomenon comprised of goal-directed, self-interest action.

If one, however, takes "alive" to mean "having spirit or vigor", then in a manner of speaking, yes, a roaring fire can be "alive."

Be careful about the terms you use to ask a philosophical question; not all questions are necessarily metaphysical, but are sometimes linguistic mistakes.

The Seven Traits of Life

Sensitivity and reactivity to the environment and Capacity for adaption Fire reacts to changes in it's environment. it moves when wind blows, it changes color when it's fuel is changed. it burns in spheres in zero gravity.

Ingestion of substance for energy to function Fire externally (sort of) ingests fuel, and uses it to survive. whent he fuel runs out, the fire 'starves' and goes away.

Reproduction fire can move from one fuel source to another via wind or heat transfer, you end up with two flames instead of one.

Respiration fire uses oxygen in it's reactions, and therefore respires.

Emission of wastes fire gives off water and ash as it's products in most cases.

Internal Movement ever watch a fire burn? it certainly has internal movement.

Cellular Structure nope

so it depends how you look at it

You know you're supposed to give your sources [http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Is_fire_alive], right? (I apologise if you were the one that wrote that on WikiAnswers, but otherwise it's just plagiarism).

 

[ChiLdpRooF]

You are all so lost on the concept of time and how old existence is when you begin to see that life is merely a ripple through the eternities of time that the age of this existence is far older than this earth and the entities, biological creatures, bacteria, viruses, and plant life of this world. You cannot even see that electricity is alive as well. Science has proven that consciousness exists within the electricity in our brain. Its actually within the electricity not the biological Grey Matter of the brain. Fire is an elemental organism just as the earth and electricity and even the sun that supports your life. There is will and forces all around us that create this perfect balance for your existence. The only reason that everything is balanced is because of the will power and the force within their conscious minds to keep this balance. Even the cold is an entity created by the absence of existence. Fire is the symbol of the breath of life and the giver of life. Of course it is alive. Look at the ball of the fire in the sky that keeps you alive. You think its entropy? No its not entropy of the universe it is a very real and vividly clear balance made by the forces of consciousness in existence within nearly inconceivable amounts of energy. God guys start balancing your mind remember education is the way to understanding who we are. To understand who and what is around us is to know our destiny in our environment.

 

[ninjapenguin981]

For it to be life it has to have ALL of the characteristics. Methinks fire does not respire. Case closed.

 

[ChiLdpRooF]

it doesn't respire it breaths oxygen and emits carbon dioxide just like you... yet it has no lungs or brain to tell it to do these rules. If it has no brain how can it know to do this? This is not a biological life form. You must understand not all the worlds and existence around you wants to be biological. They evolved in their own way. To this being it feels you are inferior to it because... it has always existed and will always be alive anywhere in existence. You could become extinct while it will always be alive and be giving life as the sun is giving you life now through its existence this fire you speak of. To it, it is a god. Infact without it..... nothing could exist..... nothing... and you dare ask if it is alive. How lost are you in what existence is... so sad.

 

[Yumi_and_Erea]

Fire is very much so alive, it just hasn't developed sentience yet (and thank Bob for that!).

 

[ChiLdpRooF]

this is the reason logical minds fail to reason such things they forget their are many sides to the brain than the logical side and do not balance their minds to use its full potential to understand the complex reasoning and seeing the perceptual feeling of the big picture. It is ones duty and constant passion to educate oneself. Without education we cannot fully fill our worldwide destiny of being balance keepers for existence.

 

[Eclectic Dreck]

While fire meets all the cursory requirments for life (it consumes, it reproduces etc), it would seem that it lacks one feature generally associated with life: order. Fire, being an exothermic oxidative reaction is the anthisis of order. In general, any life form I am aware of exists as an ordered system. Fire, unfortunately, does not.

 

[ChiLdpRooF]

lol when it orders existence to become and keeps you from reaching sub zero in space and you think it doesn't have order yet it keeps all of us alive. You again like i said... you must put all areas of existence to understand the big picture of fire and its order. It could have created life.