Why is marijuana illegal?

[blankedboy]

its illegal yet cigarettes and alcohol kill alot more than marijuana does.

Really? I wonder why? Does it have anything to do with alcohol and tobacco being LEGAL and RIDICULOUSLY ACCESSIBLE?

It blows my mind how difficult people find it to grasp this insanely simple concept. Even anti-drug-and-alcohol campaigns don't understand it.

 

[Chronologger]

True, but some people can hallucinate from Cannabis if they respond badly to it or in combination of other substances (A bit of a technicality really). Its also ill adviced to use it if you're depressed, very tired or stressed. Its basic education that comes with the use of it; If people would take the time to read it up, it would have caused a lot less accidents already. Over here its mostly the tourists that screw up and get themselves in trouble.

Now that IS interesting, I assume that your from the Netherlands and that there are obviously quite a few strict regulations on marijuana, just as there should be for any drug. But what I just found interesting is the first part I have highlighted, you see, a lot of people where I'm from would consider depression an actual reason to start, what reasons can you give me for that being a bad idea? I'm genuinely quite interested now, you have left me intrigued.

 

[charlest92]

3 Things
#1) Government can't tax it. Before you go all "YES THEY CAN" on my ass, follow this train of thought. Where can you grow weed. Answer: ANYFUCKINGWHERE. A friend of mine from 9th grade grew a plant both out in an abandoned lot and in the attic of his Phoenix, Arizona-usa home, and it didn't take much effort according to him so, If anyone can grow it gov'ment can't tax it.

#2) Whether it kills brain-cells or not is irrelevant as the one thing it can be confirmed to do is slow reaction times. And that is not so diffrent from alcohol EXcept that alcohol has a very quick and rather accurate field test I.E. (brethalizer?).

#3) And this is really obvious especially to me But, America is full of really stupid/lazy people, I will admit to that. I mean hell there was a law passed recently that requires all shops that have a specific common woodworking chemical (I can't remember which one if you do post it) to have a lable placed upon it that litrally says "This chemical is known to cause cancer in California", and its only in California that it causes cancer.


I am a resident of the united states and I am a firm believer that both the Federal and State Governments of the U.S. are (not completely)full(but really close) of really fucking dumb people. *coughcaliforniacough* *coughexpensivevideogamelawsuitcough*

 

[FC Groningen]

The reason is that the drug can heavily increase your current mood/emotions and can cause heavy depression and even suicidal urges.

The reason tourists screw up is because they go straight for the strongest stuff without knowing anything about it. Also, they do not do it in a safe environment or with someone experienced. If you try it the first time, its adviced to have someone with you that stays clean or is experienced with it.

 

[JB1528]

The fact that it directly kills brain cells is the main reason. And legalizing it would increase the risk of people driving while hallucinating. While the effects may not be perceived as being "as bad" as cigarettes or alcohol, it still is bad for you, and we're probably better off without it.

EDIT: Before you reply, please read my other posts on this thread. Thank you

I don't know where you get your information from but weed DOES NOT make you hallucinate. Seriously where do people here this stuff?

 

[FC Groningen]

3 Things
#1) Government can't tax it. Before you go all "YES THEY CAN" on my ass, follow this train of thought. Where can you grow weed. Answer: ANYFUCKINGWHERE. A friend of mine from 9th grade grew a plant both out in an abandoned lot and in the attic of his Phoenix, Arizona-usa home, and it didn't take much effort according to him so, If anyone can grow it gov'ment can't tax it.

#2) Whether it kills brain-cells or not is irrelevant as the one thing it can be confirmed to do is slow reaction times. And that is not so diffrent from alcohol EXcept that alcohol has a very quick and rather accurate field test I.E. (brethalizer?).

#3) And this is really obvious especially to me But, America is full of really stupid/lazy people, I will admit to that. I mean hell there was a law passed recently that requires all shops that have a specific common woodworking chemical (I can't remember which one if you do post it) to have a lable placed upon it that litrally says "This chemical is known to cause cancer in California", and its only in California that it causes cancer.


I am a resident of the united states and I am a firm believer that both the Federal and State Governments of the U.S. are (not completely)full(but really close) of really fucking dumb people. *coughcaliforniacough* *coughexpensivevideogamelawsuitcough*

1 In order to mass produce it, you need quite some space and the right equipment to make the right stuff. Like any crops, it takes skill, good material and experience to do it right, especially if you want to grow good quality stuff, which you will need if you want be successful. If you legalise it, the rules of the free market apply, which include a combination of price, service, quality and quantity. Eventually the market will be dominated by some big players and hobbyists/specialists. you bet you can tax those.

2 There is plenty of equipment to test people on cannabis use as well. I don't see your point, except in admitting its similar to Alcohol on that point.

3 I agree that the US has quite some stupid people. However, if they can handle a gun or handle a hard drug, I don't see why they can't handle cannabis. Newsflash, the US isn't the only country with idiots.

 

[Daddy Go Bot]

I just wanna point out that the nonsense regarding that "marijuana kills braincells" is PURE bullshit and has not been proven.

 

[Chronologger]

The reason is that the drug can heavily increase your current mood/emotions and can cause heavy depression and even suicidal urges.

The reason tourists screw up is because they go straight for the strongest stuff without knowing anything about it. Also, they do not do it in a safe environment or with someone experienced. If you try it the first time, its advised to have someone with you that stays clean or is experienced with it.

I guess I'm lucky we crossed paths on this site before me and my friends set off for Amsterdam in January, haha, thanks for the helpful advice, I'll be sure to take it into account.

On an unrelated note, how are the winters in the Netherlands?

 

[TheJesus89]

snip

as I said, the city-driving test was the least reliable because of an extremely low number of subjects, and no tests with higher doses of THC.

as I said

"* Marijuana smoking impairs fundamental road tracking ability with the degree of impairment increasing as a function of the consumed THC dose."

They didn't need to, at least for this conversation. It proves my point in my original post.

There is such a massive difference between the two. Also, There is a difference between smoking a joint and then driving over smoking for 8 hours straight then driving. I'm talking about the former over the later.

And could you please tell me what state you're in so I can look up this DAI law your argument hinges on? Or better yet, link me to proof of it?

Because my findings so far have shown nothing.

 

[FC Groningen]

The reason is that the drug can heavily increase your current mood/emotions and can cause heavy depression and even suicidal urges.

The reason tourists screw up is because they go straight for the strongest stuff without knowing anything about it. Also, they do not do it in a safe environment or with someone experienced. If you try it the first time, its advised to have someone with you that stays clean or is experienced with it.

I guess I'm lucky we crossed paths on this site before me and my friends set off for Amsterdam in January, haha, thanks for the helpful advice, I'll be sure to take it into account.

On an unrelated note, how are the winters in the Netherlands?

No problem. Probably rather wet and soft compared to what you're used to.

 

[Navvan]

It is a hallucinogen. It does not cause hallucinations. A hallucinogen is a substance that alters ones consciousness, perception, or emotional state. That you agree that it alters your attitude means you must agree with this. It is also classified as an hallucinogen and psychedelic by an objective standard.

By that logic alcohol is also a hallucinogen.
Maybe in a purely technical sense, but as you've already said, it does by no means give you the typical definition of a hallucination.

Also

"Narcotic
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
This article is about the drug classification. For the scuba diving reference, see Nitrogen narcosis. For the sedative agent, see Sedative. For pain control medications of both narcotic and non-narcotic varieties, see Analgesic.
Heroin, a powerful opioid and narcotic.

The term narcotic (pronounced /nɑrˈkɒtɨk/) originally referred medically to any psychoactive compound with any sleep-inducing properties. In the United States of America it has since become associated with opioids, commonly morphine and heroin and their derivatives, such as hydrocodone. The term is, today, imprecisely defined and typically has negative connotations.[1] When used in a legal context in the US, a narcotic drug is simply one that is totally prohibited, or one that is used in violation of strict governmental regulation, such as PCP or marijuana."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcotic

I think you got your drug jargon mixed up, marijuana is a psychoactive drug which does not mean that it is a hallucinogen in any way, even if you try to dig into the subject I can't find anywhere that says that it is officially a hallucinogen.

First you should know that I stand from a pharmaceutical classification standpoint, not lingo or shorthand. That is what that article was referring to by marijuana being classified as a narcotic.

Since you seem to be interested in the topic I will go into more detail. Marijuana is a tricky drug, and is not actually classified as anything. It displays traits from various drug categories including stimulants, depressants (as odd as that sounds), hallucinogens and sedatives. Because of this it is often classified under various categories, but really belongs in its own. Narcotics are not one of them as that is a poorly defined term used to mean any number of things depending on the context. Marijuana's most commonly described effects however, a calming pleasantness and a general attitude of "easy going" ect... falls under the category of hallucinogen.

Drug classification indicating Hallucinogenic Properties:
http://www.nhtsa.gov/People/injury/research/job185drugs/cannabis.htm
http://www.enotes.com/drugs-substances-encyclopedia/marijuana
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannabis%28drug%29

What a hallucinogen is:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hallucinogen
http://archives.drugabuse.gov/pdf/monographs/146.pdf
http://www.justice.gov/dea/concern/hallucinogens.html

A brief excerpt used in both the wikipedia and drugabuse.gov link

(1) in proportion to other effects, changes in thought, perception, and mood should predominate;
(2) intellectual or memory impairment should be minimal;
(3) stupor, narcosis, or excessive stimulation should not be an integral effect;
(4) autonomic nervous system side effects should be minimal; and
(5) addictive craving should be absent.

Nowhere does it say Hallucinates or "sees something that is not there". Hallucination is not a described effect of hallucinogens but merely a trait some members of the category have.

 

[retrochimp]

Just to add my tuppence, it is illegal for a host of reasons, not all of them known or even consciously decided.

It is still illegal because it is easier to make laws than remove them.

And for those who believe that the substance in question is noxious and thus should remain illegal, I'd like to point out that an item being illegal does not make that item unattainable, or even hard to find, but rather it forces the finite amount of police and tax dollars to be put to the use of finding, apprehending, and incarcerating the users of said item. No small feat. And in this particular case (cannabis), the 40-odd years spent doing so have shown approximately zero effectiveness in reducing the amount of use among the denizens, and has led to the United States having a higher percentage of it's own population in prison than any other Western country.

Surely, one would assume that with those kind of statistics, we'd be the most drug-free nation on earth. We aren't. It comes down to the fact that it isn't worth the cost to keep it illegal. I, personally, feel the same about all drugs, but cannabis is the most egregious example of cost/benefit fuckery.

 

[Suman1991]

OK I've read most of the arguments for both sides
And one thing i really want to know is ho do they manage it in Amerterdam though. Because thats always got me

 

[darkman80723]

Short answer; Racism, Capitalism, and Religious stupidity

 

[zephae]

You can start making all sorts of logical and equivalency arguments for and against weed, especially if you start including prescription meds and over-the-counter/behind-the-counter drugs, but there's only one real reason why it stays illegal:

The way weed is discussed it is instantly de-legitimized as a topic regardless of setting.

This happens because the substance actually exists between two seemingly all-encompassing and culturally-accepted negative stereotypes - that of the stoned slacker and that of the drug warlord. Which strawman dominates depends on which audience you're talking to. If you're speaking to (unfair generalizations inc) conservative, moralizing, law and order types, then the drug is the foundation of gang violence. If you're speaking to college-age, libertarian, hope and peace types, then you laugh it off as a naive and selfish desire that would do nothing but hinder the will and aspirations of the young.

The surprising part is that both of these ideas are ingrained remarkably deep in American culture despite their often contradictory set of assumptions about the drug. The result is that reasonable discussion about personal responsibility for relatively minor risks gets subsumed by unavoidable cultural biases, and we have yet to see a real "Howard Beale moment" that might break that kind of trance. It's easier to do on the local levels where the sensationalist media isn't as prevalent, but as long as these feelings control the national discussion, this issue is unfortunately going nowhere.

 

[Chronologger]

It is a hallucinogen. It does not cause hallucinations. A hallucinogen is a substance that alters ones consciousness, perception, or emotional state. That you agree that it alters your attitude means you must agree with this. It is also classified as an hallucinogen and psychedelic by an objective standard.

By that logic alcohol is also a hallucinogen.
Maybe in a purely technical sense, but as you've already said, it does by no means give you the typical definition of a hallucination.

Also

"Narcotic
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
This article is about the drug classification. For the scuba diving reference, see Nitrogen narcosis. For the sedative agent, see Sedative. For pain control medications of both narcotic and non-narcotic varieties, see Analgesic.
Heroin, a powerful opioid and narcotic.

The term narcotic (pronounced /nɑrˈkɒtɨk/) originally referred medically to any psychoactive compound with any sleep-inducing properties. In the United States of America it has since become associated with opioids, commonly morphine and heroin and their derivatives, such as hydrocodone. The term is, today, imprecisely defined and typically has negative connotations.[1] When used in a legal context in the US, a narcotic drug is simply one that is totally prohibited, or one that is used in violation of strict governmental regulation, such as PCP or marijuana."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcotic

I think you got your drug jargon mixed up, marijuana is a psychoactive drug which does not mean that it is a hallucinogen in any way, even if you try to dig into the subject I can't find anywhere that says that it is officially a hallucinogen.

First you should know that I stand from a pharmaceutical classification standpoint, not lingo or shorthand. That is what that article was referring to by marijuana being classified as a narcotic.

Since you seem to be interested in the topic I will go into more detail. Marijuana is a tricky drug, and is not actually classified as anything. It displays traits from various drug categories including stimulants, depressants (as odd as that sounds), hallucinogens and sedatives. Because of this it is often classified under various categories, but really belongs in its own. Narcotics are not one of them as that is a poorly defined term used to mean any number of things depending on the context. Marijuana's most commonly described effects however, a calming pleasantness and a general attitude of "easy going" ect... falls under the category of hallucinogen.

Drug classification indicating Hallucinogenic Properties:
http://www.nhtsa.gov/People/injury/research/job185drugs/cannabis.htm
http://www.enotes.com/drugs-substances-encyclopedia/marijuana
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannabis%28drug%29

What a hallucinogen is:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hallucinogen
http://archives.drugabuse.gov/pdf/monographs/146.pdf
http://www.justice.gov/dea/concern/hallucinogens.html

A brief excerpt used in both the wikipedia and drugabuse.gov link

(1) in proportion to other effects, changes in thought, perception, and mood should predominate;
(2) intellectual or memory impairment should be minimal;
(3) stupor, narcosis, or excessive stimulation should not be an integral effect;
(4) autonomic nervous system side effects should be minimal; and
(5) addictive craving should be absent.

Nowhere does it say Hallucinates or "sees something that is not there". Hallucination is not a described effect of hallucinogens.

Well thanks for clearing that one up... kind of, haha.

Would it be fair to say that I was wrong but kind of right at the same time? Because clearly after reading that, the general consensus is that it is in a class of its own, so while it's not strictly a hallucinogen, it's also not confined to any other drug classification.
Also when I think of hallucinogen, the first few things I think of is LSD, shrooms or salvia, which are muuuuuuch different to marijuana as we all know, I just wasn't thinking of the most finite details of drug qualities and applying them to THIS thread because it could raise a lot of wrong ideas for a lot of people.

Fair?

 

[IkeGreil29]

OK I've read most of the arguments for both sides
And one thing i really want to know is ho do they manage it in Amerterdam though. Because thats always got me

Look it up. Wikipedia explains it rather well.

To put it very simply, you're only allowed to consume so much marijuana in so much time and in a specific price, all in only a single location (the famous "coffee shops") so long as the establishment has a licence, and follows certain laws. They cannot advertise nor sell it except at that specific place. If they see you taking it outside, you're arrested for possession. If you grow it without a licence and proof that you're using it for a business that is paying tax, you're screwed as well. It's a lot more complicated, but you get the idea.

 

[Navvan]

Well thanks for clearing that one up... kind of, haha.

Would it be fair to say that I was wrong but kind of right at the same time? Because clearly after reading that, the general consensus is that it is in a class of its own, so while it's not strictly a hallucinogen, it's also not confined to any other drug classification.
Also when I think of hallucinogen, the first few things I think of is LSD, shrooms or salvia, which are muuuuuuch different to marijuana as we all know, I just wasn't thinking of the most finite details of drug qualities and applying them to THIS thread because it could raise a lot of wrong ideas for a lot of people.

Fair?

It would be fair that to say it does not cause hallucinations and that its effects are very different than LSD. I'm a sticker for spreading accurate information though and its primary effect belongs in the hallucinogen category. It would be wrong to say it is entirely an hallucinogen however.

Valid arguments and accurate information is the way to fight ignorance. Not misinformation or any other form of deception.

 

[KnightRider0717]

weed doesnt make you see shit that isnt there because the concentration of THC is generally far too small. hallucinagens are substances that alter the perception of the user, be it seeing something that isnt really there or hearing something or feeling warm or seeing colours brighter each being examples.

that being said, THC, can cause more intense perception changes with increased dose... ie: you smoke more you feel more of the effect

maybe im wrong, im still kinda stoned

 

[banksy122]

Because it is bad for you. Yeah, we could make it legal, then in 20 years when people realize it is horrible for you, we won't be able to make it illegal. Look at the prohibition. Making something that is popular illegal is impossible. Hence, keeping it illegal is the best option. Since when does having something illegal stop people doing it anyway.>.>

its better for you than Alcohol. And that is very legal

plus it has serious good medical uses

It is illegal because...It had something to do with the government wanting to arrest black people ages ago i think? and yeah...because people feel that it is wrong even though science says otherwise

we lost the drug war. We will save lives and create jobs if we set up a legitimate marijuana business in America. Plus it will be harder to buy if you are a minor (presumably marijuana would have an age limit of 21). Currently it is easier to get pot than to get alcohol.

But it would be less fun. Maybe.

Read my post please. "Look at the prohibition". That is why Alcohol is still legal. I think Alcohol and smoking should also be illegal, but the fact that they are legal already, and popular, makes it pretty much impossible to make illegal. That is why weed should be kept illegal.