Why isn't casual gaming respected?

[-Samurai-]

It isn't respected because it doesn't exist.

There are people that play games, and people that don't. "Hardcore" and "casual" are like the sub-sub-genres in music; They're made up by insecure elitists that want to feel better than someone because of what they enjoy, and want something to ***** about.

You know what ruins games? People like the majority of the people in this thread. Shut up and go play your games.

 

[General BrEeZy]

because on average it doesn't make us healthier. it also tends not to make us smarter, although there are many things to learn if you pay attention. because were portrayed as lonely virgins who never see the sun and get fat and live off our parents.

i think thats why. but alas, i am but one man.

 

[Jazzeki]

Casual gaming communities have ruined a lot of good games like LoL,

Yes, in LoL (and all other DotA copies) its definitely the casual crowd that ruins the community. *snicker*




At least...that was sarcasm, right?

I have to agree with that. It's the psychos who makes those games unplayable. The only way to stand a chance is to basically spend hours working on your in-game strategy and once you have to work to play a game it ceases to be a game, it's a fucking job.

thank you for proving a point here.
the exact point is that for a seriously hardcore gamer it's not a game UNLESS you need to put in that kind of effort. they think it's fun to speend that time an energy on the game. but they are denied that fun because casuals demand that they too should be alowed to play the game even if they are not the target audience. it's like me saying i demand to play in the soccor world cup despite not wanting to put any effort into it what so ever. because hey soccor is just a game right?
if a game wasn't designed with your playstyle in mind you truely are one of the most selfrigthous and obnoxious people around when you complain that the people it is designed for is getting more out of the game. that is why casual gamers don't get respect. because of the amount of "it's all about me" people among them. and i'm not saying the hardcore people are any better in that regard though they at least have a bit more of a reason to cry. they are the ones the gameing companies abandon.

 

[RJ Dalton]

There's not much to it. I mean, I know that a lot of effort goes into making a well-designed casual game and I can respect that - and even have some fun playing them if I've got enough time to be bored but not enough time to do anything more meaningful - but there's no depth behind them. They're basically electronic board games. Hardcore gamers like myself find it hard to get into that on a serious level.
But mostly, I think it's just that we're afraid the success of casual gaming means it will replace hardcore gaming.

Or maybe it's just that one of Popcap's most popular game has a unicorn for a mascot. Who knows?

 

[00slash00]

the only issue i have with casual gaming is when companies start focusing more on them than the more dedicated gamers. we spent years as social outcasts, we've earned the right to be the focus of developers

 

[Eventidal]

It's a good way to get into gaming, and I do respect the people that start casual and then try new things and work their way up. In team games however, although I don't mind giving a little extra support to newcomers, someone who has been playing a while but not really investing themselves in it to get better can be annoying.

My problem with this is that I'm a hardcore gamer, I've played maybe ten thousand hours of video games in my life, all across the board of genres, systems, difficulties, etc, and I bought TF2 before it became F2P. But I barely ever play it. When I do, I go on there to have fun and enjoy playing a game, not to win or read up on strategies. I don't want to make a focused effort to go out and improve. I'm not going to do terrible on purpose and I'm not going to fail to learn from my mistakes and successes when I can, and I won't plug my ears when I get real advice, but I'm not going out of my way to figure out the best loadouts and strategies to stick to, because that's not how I want to play.

 

[Dirty Hipsters]

Because there's really nothing to respect. It's people making money on things that we've had for free forever on the internet, flash games.

Almost anyone can make a game for a casual market, and most of them are complete and total trash made for people who don't know any better (like all of the shovelware on the wii).

 

[LuckyClover95]

I like casual gaming, it's just a lot of casual games released are utter shit.

 

[Suicida1 Midget]

The reason ill trash talk/hate any casual gamer is cause i play MW2, LoL, and Gears. U guys enter the game and start up the noob gun use,(noobtubes, feeding, and lancer use) ruining it for the rest of the ppl who play those games. Just stay out of em plz.

 

[-Samurai-]

It isn't respected because it doesn't exist.

There are people that play games, and people that don't. "Hardcore" and "casual" are like the sub-sub-genres in music; They're made up by insecure elitists that want to feel better than someone because of what they enjoy, and want something to ***** about.

You know what ruins games? People like the majority of the people in this thread. Shut up and go play your games.

"Streamlining" is ruining many of the games I probably would have enjoyed a lot more if not for it. And it sure as hell wasn't me or anyone like me that requested that games start to be "streamlined." So if not casual gamers, what do suggest that we call people who are in favor that practice? I can think of many, much harsher terms, but I think for their sake we should probably just stick with it.

This is why: http://www.nerfnow.com/comic/330

Said it best.

Or it could be the gaming industry changing as a whole?

"Streamlining" is just another one of those "words of the month". Last month it was "entitled" and the many variations.

Could you define "streamlining" and explain to me why it's bad for the industry as a whole? Preferably with facts and not "I hate streamlining because...".

 

[FoolKiller]

But I'm not sure casual gaming, by itself, should be respected. I like to sit down and play Viva Pinata every once in a while but we all know that casual gaming is only here at the party to make money and they'll leave once people don't like it anymore only to come back and hour later in a different costume.

Viva Pinata is definitely not casual. It is quite a challenging game when you get to the later stages. Just because it has a farming aspect to it, please don't speak of it like it's Farmville.

I also disagree with your statement that casual game companies ruin core games. I think the popularity and sales of such games causes bigger companies to think about the marketability of a "core" game. Unfortunately, at the end of the day the game industry is a business and wants to make the most amount of money they can. Unfortunately, it will affect design decisions. This includes but is not limited to dumbing down games.

 

[Ironic Pirate]

Personally i avoid them like the plague and if and when i rarely play tf2 then i join servers with no f2p-players so the casual community is kept behind a steelfence, guarded by firelions, on a different continent...in space

I know, right? Filthy peasants, they didn't shell out all of twenty dollars for a game, the non-contributing zeros. I mean, going to a dedicated game buying site, noticing a game is free, and downloading it to see what the big fuss is all about is the most low class thing ever. And it's not like anyone was still actually buying the game, right? Every single free to play player would never even put his filthy little pleb hands on it if it wasn't free.

And it's not like anyone bought it for the PS3 or Xbox, got tired of the dead servers and lack of updates, and didn't want to pay for it again on PC. And even if they did, they'd be stupid console gamers anyway, and they're not much better than casuals.

 

[RedEyesBlackGamer]

Because when you compare casual gamers to mainstream gamers, casual gamers usually don't bother to get very acquainted with the industry they are buying from, and usually are people whom have made the mainstream gamer's life hell in the past (Mario and like is still something, to them, that only the "geeks" do, while the "cool" people only play things like FB games and iPhone apps).

So, people can be "casual" gamers, but I wouldn't personally call them "gamers" until they at least have some knowledge about the medium as a whole they are tiptoeing in. Ah, and actually play games that take more effort than just logging in every morning to check a FB game status.

This. I consider myself a video game enthusiast. You don't expect an avid reader to consider a casual Harry Potter fan as being on the same level. Or a movie enthusiast to consider a casual blockbuster goer to be on the same level as them. Casual gaming (and by extension players) isn't/aren't bad. But it isn't on the same level as what I do.

 

[Atheist.]

Casual gaming is fine in itself i mean i have no problem with the type of straightforward easymode indiestuff or even if its by a larger company.
It's the casual community you can't stand, its the casual players who do not deserve any respect
since they themselves do not respect the other gaming communities and usually act like little selfentitled dipshits just because theyre not being spoonfed and held by the hand in every single game they feel like playing.

Casual gaming communities have ruined a lot of good games like TF2,LoL, WoW etc
and they need to be dealt with in the same way Rift does for example.

In directly casual GAMES ofc they can get whatever they want because thats the target audience
but when they start to act as if every game needs to be adapted for the casual community, thats when things go terribly wrong

Personally i avoid them like the plague and if and when i rarely play tf2 then i join servers with no f2p-players so the casual community is kept behind a steelfence, guarded by firelions, on a different continent...in space

But if your elo is high enough in LoL, I wouldn't think the casual gamers would be as much of an issue.

 

[Blackpapa]

It isn't respected because it doesn't exist.

There are people that play games, and people that don't. "Hardcore" and "casual" are like the sub-sub-genres in music; They're made up by insecure elitists that want to feel better than someone because of what they enjoy, and want something to ***** about.

Your logic fails. Since when does music have a learning curve? Since when is music an interactive form of entertainment that can not function without the viewer's feedback?

You know what ruins games? People like the majority of the people in this thread. Shut up and go play your games.

No, it's you, people like you and people with an attitude like yours that ruin games and things much more important than games. Though I get the impression you're just trolling.

Anyway, I would gladly go play my games but that's the whole point - there's less and less good games left to play and the trend is towards shittier casual games.

And while there's nothing wrong with shitty casual games - they do fuel the industry after all - just that I don't see much, if any, of that fuel going for ambitious, innovative, interesting or risky projects. I'm fine with fifteen sequels to Fast and the Furious if at the end of it there's one dr mulholland.

They are like spoiled children.
Games offer the dominance male needs but AT LEAST hardcore gamers kinda deserve some respect because what they did needs skill and their reason for feeling better is close to real.

I don't see how gamers deserve any respect, casual or hardcore. My respect goes out to the modders, coders, indie developers, community managers and all the people who engage more actively, creating something new of some (arguable) value than merely playing as intended.

Being a game designer is like being a trickster that gets money for what he does

I know quite a few people who'd strongly disagree with that.


You know how I feel as a gamer when I see games becoming more generic, streamlined, easy and stupid?

Like that time when they closed a small family-run chinese restaurant and put a McDonalds there. Sure, the building wasn't as shiny, there was no attractive packaging, no color-saturated fish-eye-lens pictures of burgers, but the food was great - I loved it and I'm pissed they tore it down and built a McDonalds there.

 

[Magicman10893]

The same reason why people don't respect casual sports players or casual sports fans. Sure, pick up basketball games might be fun and you might be really good at it, but don't expect everyone to respect you because you're sort of good at basketball. Unless you are good in the NCAA or the in the professionals or at least still playing highschool basketball and have a chance to reach state, don't expect people to be impressed.

For a closer comparison, it's like a hardcore fan of a sports team that knows the whole history of the team, has season tickets, travels to away games and could name every player on the team (including the backup's backup) and then a casual fan comes along whose only connection to the team is from being from the same city and owning team shirt/jersey and knowing the star player of the team and claims to be a true fan. I imagine the hardcore fan is going to look down on the casual fan that only pays attention to the team during the playing season.

 

[-Samurai-]

It isn't respected because it doesn't exist.

There are people that play games, and people that don't. "Hardcore" and "casual" are like the sub-sub-genres in music; They're made up by insecure elitists that want to feel better than someone because of what they enjoy, and want something to ***** about.

Your logic fails. Since when does music have a learning curve? Since when is music an interactive form of entertainment that can not function without the viewer's feedback?

Oh god. It's one of you. "I disagree with what you're saying, so you're trolling.". Because you don't see that every day.

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAnyway. Do you mind re-reading that paragraph? You missed the point by a few thousand miles. ur readin comprehenshun skillz phail mashed brotato

You know what ruins games? People like the majority of the people in this thread. Shut up and go play your games.

No, it's you, people like you and people with an attitude like yours that ruin games and things much more important than games. Though I get the impression you're just trolling.

Anyway, I would gladly go play my games but that's the whole point - there's less and less good games left to play and the trend is towards shittier casual games.

My attitude of "let people like what they like and stop trying to be an elitist *****" ruins things? How so? I'm curious to know how letting people enjoy what they like without being blamed for shitty industry standards makes things worse.

"Casual" games and gamers aren't the problem. The industry hasn't properly adjusted to being mainstream yet. They're still in the experimental stage where they're trying to figure out what's going to get them more money. Right now it's small, simple games and military shooters. In the next few years? Who knows? But I'm sure the kids of those years will still ***** about something.

But, hey, if you gotta blame someone, why not blame the people that play the games being made for them? Because it's their fault they enjoy something you don't, and it's their fault you(maybe not specifically you(although probably specifically you), but the people bitching about "casual" games) can't adjust to a changing industry.

 

[The Almighty Aardvark]

Maybe because we were happy with gaming being a 'minority'.

As sad as a reason as that is to not respect casual gaming, I'm pretty sure that is one of the biggest reasons. Being completely honest, I do like gaming to be a minority.

A decent reason, however, would be how series decide to change themselves to cater to that audience. I have no problem with games being directed at the casual gamer, but with games like Dragon Age, which already have an established fan base, companies shouldn't change important aspects just to make it more accessible to the larger market of casual gamers.

That really has nothing to do with casual gamers themselves, they have no impact in which audience companies decide to target, but a lot of the hate seems to trickle down to them regardless.

 

[Blackpapa]

Oh god. It's one of you. "I disagree with what you're saying, so you're trolling.". Because you don't see that every day.

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAnyway. Do you mind re-reading that paragraph? You missed the point by a few thousand miles. ur readin comprehenshun skillz phail mashed brotato

My attitude of "let people like what they like and stop trying to be an elitist *****" ruins things? How so? I'm curious to know how letting people enjoy what they like without being blamed for shitty industry standards makes things worse.

"Casual" games and gamers aren't the problem. The industry hasn't properly adjusted to being mainstream yet. They're still in the experimental stage where they're trying to figure out what's going to get them more money. Right now it's small, simple games and military shooters. In the next few years? Who knows? But I'm sure the kids of those years will still ***** about something.

But, hey, if you gotta blame someone, why not blame the people that play the games being made for them? Because it's their fault they enjoy something you don't, and it's their fault you(maybe not specifically you(although probably specifically you), but the people bitching about "casual" games) can't adjust to a changing industry.

How about you follow your own advice and read what I wrote? If you do there's a chance you'll notice the part with "And while there's nothing wrong with shitty casual games[...]". If you spend some more time reading that post you might even come to the conclusion that I don't, at any point, blame casual gamers or casual games for the state of the industry. With the part "I don't see how gamers deserve any respect, casual or hardcore." I thought I made it reasonably clear that I don't put a ">" between Hardcore gamers and Casual gamers. False assumption on your part - am I not being explicit enough?

And that part about me having to adapt to the changing industry is bullshit. I can adjust to a changing economy, I can adjust to higher taxes, I can adjust to a new job. There are many things I can and do adjust to, but games aren't one of them, because they're an entertainment product I buy to enjoy. How do you make a Bridge player enjoy switching over to playing War? Take an icepick and lobotomize him?

Edit: As for you, the problem with your attitude is that you claim "let people like what they like" and a few sentences later tell me that my taste in games is outdated, elitist, wrong and should be "adjusted". Anybody tell you today that you're a massive hypocrite?

 

[ThisIsZen]

Or it could be the gaming industry changing as a whole?

"Streamlining" is just another one of those "words of the month". Last month it was "entitled" and the many variations.

Could you define "streamlining" and explain to me why it's bad for the industry as a whole? Preferably with facts and not "I hate streamlining because...".

The industry as a whole is changing, just not for the better. The gaming industry used to be one of the few remaining industries that wasn't driven entirely by greed, but now that Activision and EA own damn near everything, most of our favorite developers have turned into something no better than Enron or Goldman Sachs.

Streamlining is simply the industry code word for dumbing down. It's attempting to build a game for non-gamers. Which is much like trying to make a Jazz record for people who aren't fans of Jazz. It's silly. If there are people out there that don't appreciate the medium as it is, they aren't going to suddenly enjoy an RPG just because you make ridiculously simple. In fact, that's probably going to lower their opinion of gaming and gamers even further, making them believe that we're all dumb for enjoying something so shallow.

Art isn't appreciated by everyone, either. That doesn't mean you're going to see a famous landscape artist paint Mickey Mouse to try and "broaden his appeal." So if we ever want to see gaming elevated to a higher regard, we can't just change it for every dim-witted jackass that can't understand the difference between a light attack and a heavy attack.

Here's a problem with your examples, if you will. They aren't making a Jazz record if they're making a game with broader appeal. They're making maybe a light rock album, maybe something poppy. Games aren't just some genre, they're an entire medium to themselves. There's more to art than painted pictures - you have comics, you have concept art, you have abstract modern work, you have the sorts of stuff that show up in children's books. Equating games to one genre of a medium, be that Jazz or Fine Art, is an outright wrong comparison.

And please keep in mind, Fine Art is still a thing. People still do landscapes, portraits, they still advance the genre and bring in new trends, techniques and such. Jazz didn't just stop existing when Rock and Pop came around. Hell, when more people started reading, the body of literature considered classic didn't stop growing. So worrying that there's an increasing number of games intended to have a broader appeal, to bring people into the hobby and introduce them to the medium means you will never be able to find games that appeal to you? It's silly. Denigrating people who might have less time, or just less dedication to a hobby you pursue for personal enjoyment is insecurity, or just plain douchebaggery.

Enjoy the games you enjoy, and let other people enjoy the games they enjoy. And if you are worried about how the industry is changing, in one way or another, then vote with your goddamn wallet.