Why it is acceptable to criticize smokers, but not fat people?

Benny Blanco

New member
Jan 23, 2008
387
0
0
As an occasional smoker who has a hard time maintaining an ideal body weight, I feel doubly slammed here. I'm going to cry, eat Bacon Double Cheeseburgers washed down with milkshakes and beer until I can't move and then just light up a cigarette...

I think I'd say that both are honestly my responsibility, but that it's easier to pick on smokers because they can (seemingly) "instantly" stop being smokers, whereas most people know that losing weight is pretty tough, if not from personal experience then from seeing others battle with it.

Neither giving up cigarettes nor losing weight is easy, but they're both life choices which will probably extend your life.

Cigarettes are considered twice as addictive as heroin (by dependency rate) and whilst the withdrawal symptoms aren't as grisly, it's still more socially acceptable to light a cigarette than shoot up, so it's harder to quit.

Food is delicious, omnipresent and our first source of comfort as humans, so it's really hard to stop putting it in our mouths, especially if you're already tubby and this is getting you down, whether directly or indirectly.

Here's an example: I was a thin kid, until about 8, when 3 of my grandparents died in relatively close succession. I got progressively plumper until about 16-17 because along with the rest of my family I comfort-ate like a ************. I got in a cycle of getting bullied about weight and comfort-eating, which got worse around puberty, because a fat kid doesn't get all that many dates. A couple of months shy of my 17th I finally got a mercy-fuck and this made a huge difference to my outlook as well as my comfort behaviour. That's a story for another time, but suffice it to say that I was a right little man-whore from 17 to about the time I met my penultimate girlfriend.

As for the "Big is Beautiful" brigade? Big *can* be beautiful (depending on the individual) I agree- as discussion of beauty is usually agreed to be highly subjective- I'd personally much prefer a larger lady with a pretty face to an ugly hard-body. If you don't necessarily agree, that's your call, but ponder this: the chubby pretty girl can lose weight and look drop-dead gorgeous, but the butterface is as hot as she's ever going to get.

This does not however make "Big is Beautiful" an excuse for a slide into morbid obesity. You can struggle with your weight, but please keep up the struggle! Try to eat better food (learn to cook for yourself- you'll save money and be able to control portion size and nutrition value better) and find an exercise you enjoy. Whether it's swimming, cycling, walking, or something to keep your brain occupied as well as your body (I find martial arts REALLY good for this, as well as providing a progress monitoring system which isn't completely trashed by the holiday season to keep you motivated) you need to do something to keep within a reasonable range.

It should be OK to criticise both groups, but from a position of concern, not vilification or hate. People are (or at least like to think of themselves) as individuals, so trying to bully or nanny them into a behaviour isn't too effective.

In most of Europe and North America, it's pretty hard to attack a smoker on the grounds that they're ruining the health of those around them. When all public buildings, public transport and even private cars are now non-smoking, to put yourself in danger from passive smoke requires you to actively seeking it. At that point it's not passive anymore, you're just being a pompous ass. Smokers know the risks, but choose to smoke anyway. The tax they pay on their habit pretty much covers the cost to the state of their health bill, especially when you factor in less years of old age care and pensions.

The "Fat Acceptance" movement is a bullshit, cartoonish extreme which has the potential to be disastrous to society because taxing food, even bad food, is political suicide: there's no way to differentiate someone who's healthy but eats a lot (athletes, for instance) from a human-atee because they both shop at the same place.

Sure, people shouldn't pick on someone who's a bit chunky, because it's mean, but once you need a mobility scooter, that's a warning signs too far. You should have stopped eating anything other than fruit and veg at the point where you couldn't see your genitals without a mirror. The last thing you need at that juncture is encouragement to keep up your unsustainable and dangerous lifestyle.
 

Starik20X6

New member
Oct 28, 2009
1,685
0
0
Australian talking here. I've never drawn that line- I'm just as disgusted by a heaving, jiggling mass of lard and pies as I am by someone who wilfully inhales poison. Every time I see some beetroot-faced blob shuffling around looking like they smuggle entire pigs under their shirt, hearing them huff and puff like each step is like scaling Everest, I can't help but be reminded that, somewhere else, a child dies because they don't have enough to eat. It sickens me.

EDIT: Should point out that, overall, the human race could use a pruning, so I guess it's a necessary evil?

EDIT 2: I don't think you should go out of your way to criticise fat people and smokers, but at the same time, we shouldn't be acting like they're the victims for being unable to stop inhaling cake and toxins respectively.
 

ultimateownage

This name was cool in 2008.
Feb 11, 2009
5,346
0
41
It is acceptable to criticise fat people. It shouldn't be, though. Smoking is their choice, it isn't always the direct fault of a fat person.
 

metal mustache

New member
Oct 29, 2009
172
0
0
I don't understand what you mean by critizing smokers. The only campaign posters i see are health advisaries and information about smoking risks, and information about addiction and quiting.

Brawndo said:
That means as a fit person, my taxes will be higher and my insurance premiums will go up to fund increased health care costs associated with an increase in obesity. Also, children with fat parents are less likely to have access to healthy foods and are more likely to be overweight themselves. Other people ARE harmed by you being overweight.
I also think this needs to be expanded on. I assume you mean because lazy fat people make lazy fat choices about their childrens food, rather then poor fat people can't afford healthy food for their kids. It feels like you threw it in there to justify your bolded statement, since that bit about you paying extra tax certainly didn't.

This thread appears to have a lot of angry emotion in it, and i suspect it is because of the antagonist approach you have taken by saying that fat people deserve critism. I agree that there needs to be a stronger awareness campaign in North America, but going out and critizing a fat person who is aware of the issues is as rude as going out and telling a biker he is a jerk for smoking is stupid.
 

Helmholtz Watson

New member
Nov 7, 2011
2,503
0
0
SmashLovesTitanQuest said:
Because genes and stuff!

Nah, seriously, come on people. If you are going to be a douche and criticize me for smoking, at least a proper douche and tell fat people to fuck right off too.
Volf99 said:
Brawndo said:
huser said:
Compelling data, here's more.

http://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_statistics/fact_sheets/fast_facts/

The long and short of it, tobacco products as of 2000-2004 cost $193 Billion, with $96 billion in health care costs.

Second hand smoke costs 10 BILLION.

So while smoking might cost less than preventable diseases related to obesity, 10 BILLION dollars lost because complete bystanders had health issues sorta makes smokers villains even if we are simply using cold equations to quantify even a SINGLE person dying because some a-hole decides to go through a pack a day.

And of course the fallacy that every health related issue of diseases associated with obesity would disappear if everyone was super fit. Heart attacks, strokes, and diabetes would obviously still occur even among that hypothetical cohort. Much less prevalent? Sure.

And I normally go on the side of addressing increasing obesity, but smokers DO as a group suck for their poor health choices.
I absolutely agree smoking affects our health costs, but there is already a strong anti-smoking campaign underway in the United States. I don't see an equally big one telling Americans to stop drinking soda (which is the biggest source of sugar and empty calories) or something similar.
the more I think about it, the more I think it has to do with interest groups/lobbyist that would not like to see campaigns against the products their trying to sell. Just look at the recent act to help make school children more healthy. It was met with congress declaring pizza a vegetable! (lmao pizza=/=vegetable)
Hey buddy, slow right down. Pizza contains more than 2 tablespoons of tomato sauce! It is clearly a vegetable!
lmao, my mistake! How could I forget about the 2 tablespoons!
 

Sentox6

New member
Jun 30, 2008
686
0
0
BeerTent said:
In my eyes, criticizing both is completely unacceptable.

I'm 23, skinny as a rail/non-smoker and I know, as people, we're better than that.
Interestingly, I'm 23, skinny as a rail, and also a non-smoker, yet my viewpoint is more or less the polar opposite of yours.

Celebrate diversity, I guess.
 

shadowsoul222

New member
Jun 6, 2010
98
0
0
lacktheknack said:
Laxman9292 said:
Ariyura said:
legendp said:
lacktheknack said:
I'm a poor college student with too much homework and a slow metabolism.

Healthy food is more than twice as expensive as trashy food. I can't afford to go to a gym, nor do I have four hours a week to go. I'm gaining weight because all my exercise comes from running between classes.

What do, OP? What do?
Admitedly I do not know you, or the reasons you are overweight. I do not want to sound rude in any way but couldn't you just eat less?
Eating less is not always the answer, actually its good to eat more frequently.
No matter how busy you say you are you have at least four hours a week to exercise, and you don't even need four hours, just as much as you can manage. Hell I know a girl who is taking 28 credit hours and still works out 3 times a week. And I know since you're a college kid you have free access to a gym and most likely located a pretty short distance from said gym.

Not trying to blame you but just pointing out that any amount of exercise you can fitg in is beneficial even if it's just a few push ups before bed or maybe a spin of the exercise bike. You can even bring your notes to look over while you ride if you are that overloaded.

Plus working out gives you a great natural high from releasing endorphins and knowing that you are taking care of your body.
Sorry, but I'm in a Comp Sci program. It's physically impossible to type out assignments, keep a clear and streamlined head, and exercise at the same time. Your laptop, brain, or training equipment will break.

No one's more upset about my lack of exercise than me, but seeing how I work, attend six classes, and put in fifty hours of homework a week and STILL turn in unfinished assignments, I simply don't have time. Period. End of. Unless I remove the half-hour to hour of time I spend on the Escapist/Cracked every day, but I dare you to disconnect yourself from the internet entirely minus assignments. I'd snap.

As for push-ups before bed... I can't do push-ups...
Holy fuck, 50 hours of homework a week? How the hell do you have that much? I personally work 40 a week, go to 5 classes and do the hours of homework I have to do (most of the time >.>), and my homework hours don't nearly reach those levels. I'm curious as to what field you are in and what gives you that much homework.

OT: I personally smoke, and am thin, so color me biased if you want, just thought I should let people know ahead of time.

I know that smokers get a bad rap, and for good reason, lots of us are complete ass-holes. But I myself try my damnedest to not be a burden on other people; I don't smoke where there is lots of foot traffic, I don't smoke if the people around me don't like it, and i don't blow my smoke in people's faces. I'm honestly ashamed that so many smokers do.

Yet they don't deserve to be criticized. And neither do fat people. But that's not the point, the point is that it's considered "ok" to insult smokers but it's not ok so insult fat people. Yes fat people get insulted all the fucking time in our society, and it really sucks. People should just stop being so selfish and terrible to each other. :/
 

TheEndlessGrey

New member
Sep 28, 2009
120
0
0
GamerKT said:
It usually takes longer for someone to stop being fat than to stop smoking. Also, smoke stinks. The most a fat person could inconvenience another is by taking up extra space or food.
Don't try to play the smell card. I can easily counter-argue that I've sat near plenty of people who are too large to fully wash and/or wipe themselves, and that the stink of smoke is preferable.
 

similar.squirrel

New member
Mar 28, 2009
6,021
0
0
Having to breathe in carcinogenic smoke on another person's account is worse than being slightly nauseated by their grotesque folds. Also, smoking seems more conspicuously stupid than eating too much. But you're right; logically, they're just as bad as each other.

I'm saying this as an underweight smoker, by the way.
 

harvz

New member
Jun 20, 2010
462
0
0
It seems to be because for a long time smoking was seen as "cool" while being fat has never been, there were many advertisements that while they said that the ads were aimed at adults, they were definitely aimed at kids. even today, an adult looks at a teen smoking in a movie and sees an idiot while someone younger (kids to teens) will more likely see them as the cool rebel.

now you could go down the route of encouraging people to exercise...oh wait, thats being done to death, particularly on tv, well you could try promoting healthy eatin... oh wait, again, done to death. people have the information right there, tv, internet, magazines, school, hell even games are doing it to some degree, its comes down to
a)the individual's will/want to get healthier
b)the parents of kids teaching their kids to eat healthy
 

predatorpulse7

New member
Jun 9, 2011
160
0
0
I tend to criticize both because of what they are doing to their bodies. Yeah,yeah, most will say "it's my body, I can do what I want" but that's the thing, why wouldn't you want to respect your body and let it run without putting extra weight on its frame or sabotaging your lungs?

Obesity and smoking are BAD for you in general. Sure, some like to point out the exceptions(my grandpa smoked till he was 90 and such) but for the general populus, they decrease lifespan and make the years you have worse(social ostracization, health "benefits"). And worse of all, for most cases, they are done BY CHOICE. Sure, there are exceptions lie getting fat after staying in bed after operation or having a endocrine problem but in most cases it's from stuffing your face.

When I see both smokers and fat people on the street, I feel pity for them. They are hurting themselves(and indirectly their loved ones) in the long run. They are wildly irresponsible because most of them KNOW that what they are doing is hurting them but they won't stop(and don't say that they can't because there have been thousands of cases of people who lost weight/quit smoking)
 

SinisterGehe

New member
May 19, 2009
1,456
0
0
Maybe because smoking is a pure choice, but fatness isn't always - there are diseases and other medical reasons for people being fat. But there is also tho who choose to become fat.

Maybe it is because we can not tell apart those who eat them selfs to become fat and who become fat due to medical reasons.

I am against bullying, but I still think that if you choose not to stay healthy, keep eating and choose not to exercise, you are wrong and should accept the same amount of criticism as smokers/drug users and such do get.

Also contrary to poplar belief, being thin is not healthy for everyone also losing lot of weight fast is unhealthy. Example if I got few kilos of extra fat (as I do) and get really sick, unable to eat, bad digestive infection/virus and such, the fat in my body can keep me alive for quite long time. Example I got sick really bad once during vacation, I had high fewer, digestive problems, I simply couldn't eat anything unless it was cool paste or yoghurt like substance and even that little. I lost weight a lot, till I got to meet a doctor at the hospital que time was 8 days and I wasn't critical enough case to be brought in as emergency case. I lost weight from 79 to 70,5. Having some extra weight is not bad or unhealthy, weight is not an indicator of a person's health. But obesity is a bad thing.

But in short: Why we can taunt smokers but not fat people... because we are stupid people who are bigots and have double standards.
 

Elsarild

New member
Oct 26, 2009
343
0
0
Well, there has been no credible evidence that Second Hand Smoke do ANY harm. The study that is always Cited, was thrown out by the medical instituions because of grossly overstepping their mark, as well as calculating your odds of dieing wy too high, and not based in reality.

just putting it out there.
 

brainslurper

New member
Aug 18, 2009
940
0
0
They are both incredibly stupid. Medical disorders causing obesity are rare. And wealth is not an issue. Every day for lunch I buy a banana for 19 cents, and if you can't afford that, it's a wonder you can afford to eat at all. Smokers and fat people are people who choose to do something, even though it will most likely kill them, and cost the rest of society money.

DracoSuave said:
The difference is very simple.

A fat person doesn't force bacon down my throat in order for them to eat. A smoker does force others to breath in his drug.

One is immediately self-contained, and the other inconveniences those around you.
Much like we breath second hand smoke, we have to pay for their increased health care costs.
 

Ignatz_Zwakh

New member
Sep 3, 2010
1,408
0
0
Well, I don't see fat people going around spreading second-hand fat.

EDIT

Actually, reading over other posts and re-reading the opening post, I retract that statement.
 

brainslurper

New member
Aug 18, 2009
940
0
0
Phisi said:
Why on earth do you criticize smokers? They help the public, there are taxes imposed on cigarettes (at least here is Aus) which raise revenue and the premature deaths cause by smoking don't cost as much as other illnesses that come later in life that need full time care e.g. dementia. Yes it smells terrible and the litter is annoying but to criticize all smokers because some are pricks is like criticizing someone because their race commits the majority of crimes isn't it?

Source:
http://www.health.nsw.gov.au/pubs/2010/pdf/social_cost_of_smoking.pdf
Yes, but when the majority of them get lung cancer for literally breathing smoke into their lungs the health care industry pays, so we pay. Not sure if the cigarette taxes that go to the government really help our health care costs.
 

blushmoe

New member
Nov 19, 2009
62
0
0
I would rather Smoke then be obese.
If i've got health problems. I would rather look good while I am dying.
 

DracoSuave

New member
Jan 26, 2009
1,685
0
0
link35142 said:
Brawndo said:
Let make this perfectly clear: being fat should not be a protected class like race, gender, sexual orientation, or ethnicity. Unlike those categories, being fat is almost always a choice. Only a small percentage of people are overweight because of a legitimate medical condition like hyperthyroidism. And sure, eating disorders with psychological roots exist, but let's be honest: most fat people are fat because of poor food choices and because they lack the willpower and motivation to exercise regularly. They just don't like to be called out on it.
You actually believe that being fat is a choice? YOU HONESTLY BELIEVE THAT BEING FAT IS A CHOICE!? People don't wake up and decide they want to be fat.
Drug addicts don't wake up and decide they want to be addicts. But there's still the manner of choice in behaviors that lead to the health problem in the first place.

Everyone knows poor eating and lack of exercise lead to weight gain. This is common knowledge. And if an individual does not exercise enough to match their calorie intake, then yes, they're going to gain weight.

This isn't rocket science, and it's usually a choice.

And for the record, calling someone fat for no reason is called verbal assault, or bullying, and that IS a crime, in the same way a black person shouldn't be called the N word, or an Asian person shouldn't be called the C word.
Except that most obese people are not hereditarily obese. It's the result of a choice. Choice, my friend, is not a race.

It is comments like these that make people commit suicide on a daily basis, and you want to dehumanize the large by turning them into statistics? And you do this without ANY knowledge of the groups background? In the great words of every ghoul in fallout: "Bigot."
It's not bigotted to discuss a medical fact like 'If you eat more than you exercise, you're going to get fat.' That's not bigottry, it's fucking medical science. Everyone KNOWS it. It's how fat deposits work.

Some of us don't buy into the 'humans don't have free will' idea that makes victims of peoples' own choices.

Elsarild said:
Well, there has been no credible evidence that Second Hand Smoke do ANY harm. The study that is always Cited, was thrown out by the medical instituions because of grossly overstepping their mark, as well as calculating your odds of dieing wy too high, and not based in reality.

just putting it out there.
Regardless of whether studies conclude as to whether it does harm or not, it is absolutely true that the drug is contained within that smoke.

If someone makes the conscious choice not to intake a drug, they have every right not to take it, and that right outweighs the right of another to take the drug.

The choice not to smoke supercedes the choice to smoke, because a smoker can always do so in private, at their own home. Society frowns on drug-use that publicly inconveniences others, and smoking should be no different.

Am I against smokers? No. But it's called respect... you light up beside a nonsmoker, you're disrespecting them. Any justification to the contrary is logically equivalent to a junkie saying 'but I really need my fix now' and is bullshit.
 

Smertnik

New member
Apr 5, 2010
1,172
0
0
Probably been said a couple of times already but yeah, obese people don't make me fat as well. Regardless of the amount of damage of secondhand smoke it still stinks as hell. Overweight people don't trouble me in any way, hence I couldn't care less about them.