Why Metal Gear Rising was Awful.

[zerkocelot]

Understandable enough.

But see how when YOU didn't understand a mechanic, I explained it.

at the risk of sounding esoteric I can't explain every piece of terminology inherint in a fighting game because that would take a long time this post is meant for the discussion of hardcore mechanics and people who understand them.

There's a fine line between esoteric and elitist. Try to stay on the pleasant side of it.
How can you expect a fair discussion of mechanics, if you're not even willing to take 5 minutes to link to some explanations.

you could teach a course on it so I'm esoteric not elitist when I don't want to explain this much stuff but enjoy
http://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/Appendix:Glossary_of_fighting_games

 

[rob_simple]

Oh man, I never get tired of these 'I suck at this game so you're all wrong for liking it' threads.

I can tell from reading your replies to other people, OP, that you just don't know how to play the game. I suck at precision fighting games like this, but now I'm on my third playthrough I've started to get used to the system and understand what works and what doesn't, and it is fun as balls.

All your problems, from what I've read, are based on you either not playing the game properly, or not using the moves correctly (the dodge move actually has a few invincibility frames which allow you to jump through hammer attacks, etc.)

My advice would be to watch some LP's on Youtube --Particularly Chip & Ironicus' one, as Chip is crazy knowledgeable about the game-- and stop trying to tell us all that we're wrong for liking a game we're good at that you aren't.

 

[Roberto Hadi]

Because QTEs. Let me tell the story.
First playthrough, Ps3, Hard mode, loved the game until the Armstrong fight. Then I died on the diagonal cut QTE like hundreds of times. Literally. Of my time in the game, 4 of 14 hours at least were spent repeating that fight (Proabably 6 or 7 even). We are talking 2 weeks in non gameplay time. My family started cheering for armstrong and laughing at me for losing (Punch-Out!! Wii all over again).
I could never pull off the diagonal cut QTE with the sticks. You had to align the cut and then tap the stick in the oposite direction to cut and that movement moved the alignement of the cut. I found I could align with the sticks and start the cut with the buttons (One button was horizontal slash and one was vertical but the first cut you make with either follows the alignement of the right stick). So I started being capable of doing the first cut and dying on the second one because moving my finger from stick to button to the stick again to align the second cut threw off the alignement of the second cut just the same.
The only way I could finally pull off the damn QTE was aligning the cut with the sticks and pressing the cut button with my mouth. Its the gaming equivalent of biting in a street fight. The QTE was so broken at least I can't pull it off with just my hands.
I hate nanomachines.

 

[zerkocelot]

Spoiler

To all the people who resent me using the word mashing... look at the admiteedly adept player here, even he will be propelled past his target (needing to jump or cancel his string otherwise to make it safe) whilst using a special strategy he found was affective (spamming the divekick). LOOK AT WHAT HAPPEN AT 26:50 the exchange next to a wall causes the camera to go berserk and he was only safe from a stupid attack cause moonsoon jumps away. It's hard to deny the rough gameplay when you show me evidance. As well he isn't parrying most of the time he is blocking (which comes from a slow parry, ugh), just think about these decisions for the layout... block should be its own button and seperate from the parry or at least tacked on to the block instead of vice-versa like in other games.

Bear in mind this was being played on the highest difficulty setting which is meant to be stupidly challenging. At lower difficulties it's not essential to cancel or jump out of combos.

The camera works well for the most part one example out out 52min isn't bad.

You seem to be looking for a competitive fighting game experience à la Street Fighter rather than a hack n' slash like MGR.

Still needs to be some sense in a hack and slash especially one involving pseudo competetive fighting game mechanics. If it was a shallow experience how come I spent more time in dizzy in this than in all 3000 hours of fighting games. if its mindless I shouldn't be so punished and frustrated. with a mob of enemies attacking you you could block one attack only to be stuck in the block and hit with a different unblockable attack because he was offscreen with his giant hammer... things like this happeneed all the time especially with the retarded orbital jump attacks which have terribly ambiguous parry directions (the bipedal robot cow things)

 

[zerkocelot]

Oh man, I never get tired of these 'I suck at this game so you're all wrong for liking it' threads.

I can tell from reading your replies to other people, OP, that you just don't know how to play the game. I suck at precision fighting games like this, but now I'm on my third playthrough I've started to get used to the system and understand what works and what doesn't, and it is fun as balls.

All your problems, from what I've read, are based on you either not playing the game properly, or not using the moves correctly (the dodge move actually has a few invincibility frames which allow you to jump through hammer attacks, etc.)

My advice would be to watch some LP's on Youtube --Particularly Chip & Ironicus' one, as Chip is crazy knowledgeable about the game-- and stop trying to tell us all that we're wrong for liking a game we're good at that you aren't.

sigh please address all of my points I wasn't trying to to make it personal and telling me to l2p isn't the most relevant reply.. thanks

 

[rob_simple]

Oh man, I never get tired of these 'I suck at this game so you're all wrong for liking it' threads.

I can tell from reading your replies to other people, OP, that you just don't know how to play the game. I suck at precision fighting games like this, but now I'm on my third playthrough I've started to get used to the system and understand what works and what doesn't, and it is fun as balls.

All your problems, from what I've read, are based on you either not playing the game properly, or not using the moves correctly (the dodge move actually has a few invincibility frames which allow you to jump through hammer attacks, etc.)

My advice would be to watch some LP's on Youtube --Particularly Chip & Ironicus' one, as Chip is crazy knowledgeable about the game-- and stop trying to tell us all that we're wrong for liking a game we're good at that you aren't.

sigh please address all of my points I wasn't trying to to make it personal and telling me to shutup isn't the most relevant reply.. thanks

Um, I don't remember telling you to shut up. I just think you need to learn the difference between objective and subjective and, if you don't want to make it personal, use a less inflammatory thread title like, 'Why I think MGR was awful.'

Also, I told you: go watch the LP I mentioned, it's proof-positive that the game isn't the broken mess you make it out to be.

 

[WanderingFool]

I felt that there needed to be a dedicated Block button. Likewise, I didnt like how they did blade mode (using the left stick to aim and the right stick to both direct the blade and cut.) I had a hell of a time fighting the last boss because of the fuck all rocks he was throwing at me.

Beyond that though, I enjoyed it.

 

[zerkocelot]

Oh man, I never get tired of these 'I suck at this game so you're all wrong for liking it' threads.

I can tell from reading your replies to other people, OP, that you just don't know how to play the game. I suck at precision fighting games like this, but now I'm on my third playthrough I've started to get used to the system and understand what works and what doesn't, and it is fun as balls.

All your problems, from what I've read, are based on you either not playing the game properly, or not using the moves correctly (the dodge move actually has a few invincibility frames which allow you to jump through hammer attacks, etc.)

My advice would be to watch some LP's on Youtube --Particularly Chip & Ironicus' one, as Chip is crazy knowledgeable about the game-- and stop trying to tell us all that we're wrong for liking a game we're good at that you aren't.

sigh please address all of my points I wasn't trying to to make it personal and telling me to shutup isn't the most relevant reply.. thanks

Um, I don't remember telling you to shut up. I just think you need to learn the difference between objective and subjective and, if you don't want to make it personal, use a less inflammatory thread title like, 'Why I think MGR was awful.'

Also, I told you: go watch the LP I mentioned, it's proof-positive that the game isn't the broken mess you make it out to be.

sorry edited my first reply... you told me to l2p but I got to the last boss so I did play but learn I did not... that's the whole point

in essence
me: I didn't learn anything
you:just learn something


irrelevant post

 

[zerkocelot]

lemme sum up a big problem we've discussed: a well timed parry is a counter (sometimes, depends on attack) a block is a badly timed parry and helps only sometimes (very rare agaisnt bosses) its not standardized and leads to trial and error instead of mastering a thought out system

 

[Able Seacat]

Still needs to be some sense in a hack and slash especially one involving pseudo competetive fighting game mechanics.

I think it does and as others and I have said, the game as a whole was enjoyable. Not that you have to agree of course, differing opinions and what not.

If it was a shallow experience how come I spent more time in dizzy in this than in all 3000 hours of fighting games.

Out of curiosity what other fighting games are you comparing this to? Is this your first game by Platinum Games? Perhaps it's their style you're not fond of.

if its mindless I shouldn't be so punished and frustrated. with a mob of enemies attacking you you could block one attack only to be stuck in the block and hit with a different unblockable attack because he was offscreen with his giant hammer... things like this happeneed all the time especially with the retarded orbital jump attacks which have terribly ambiguous parry directions (the bipedal robot cow things)

I wouldn't say it was mindless and you can block successive attacks from multiple enemies.

 

[rob_simple]

Oh man, I never get tired of these 'I suck at this game so you're all wrong for liking it' threads.

I can tell from reading your replies to other people, OP, that you just don't know how to play the game. I suck at precision fighting games like this, but now I'm on my third playthrough I've started to get used to the system and understand what works and what doesn't, and it is fun as balls.

All your problems, from what I've read, are based on you either not playing the game properly, or not using the moves correctly (the dodge move actually has a few invincibility frames which allow you to jump through hammer attacks, etc.)

My advice would be to watch some LP's on Youtube --Particularly Chip & Ironicus' one, as Chip is crazy knowledgeable about the game-- and stop trying to tell us all that we're wrong for liking a game we're good at that you aren't.

sigh please address all of my points I wasn't trying to to make it personal and telling me to shutup isn't the most relevant reply.. thanks

Um, I don't remember telling you to shut up. I just think you need to learn the difference between objective and subjective and, if you don't want to make it personal, use a less inflammatory thread title like, 'Why I think MGR was awful.'

Also, I told you: go watch the LP I mentioned, it's proof-positive that the game isn't the broken mess you make it out to be.

sorry edited my first reply... you told me to l2p but I got to the last boss so I did play but learn I did not... that's the whole point

in essence
me: I didn't learn anything
you:just learn something


irrelevant post

It's perfectly possible to get through things without knowing anything --hell I could probably walk into a garage tomorrow and work on cars for a few hours before anyone noticed I didn't know what I was doing-- what I'm saying is your problems stem from the fact you didn't learn anything.

I, similarly, made it all the way to the last boss without learning even the fundamental parts of the game mechanics, but I couldn't beat the last boss until I Youtubed it and learned where I'd been going wrong. Then I started watching other videos to learn more about the game and started experimenting with different tactics, myself, and now I'm about a million times better at it.

If you just refuse to learn where you're going wrong and assume it's all the games fault for being broken, then of course it stands to reason you will never improve, but if the game was really broken then no one would be able to get good at it; and there definitely wouldn't be people getting all S Ranks and 'no damage' runs.

 

[zerkocelot]

Oh man, I never get tired of these 'I suck at this game so you're all wrong for liking it' threads.

I can tell from reading your replies to other people, OP, that you just don't know how to play the game. I suck at precision fighting games like this, but now I'm on my third playthrough I've started to get used to the system and understand what works and what doesn't, and it is fun as balls.

All your problems, from what I've read, are based on you either not playing the game properly, or not using the moves correctly (the dodge move actually has a few invincibility frames which allow you to jump through hammer attacks, etc.)

My advice would be to watch some LP's on Youtube --Particularly Chip & Ironicus' one, as Chip is crazy knowledgeable about the game-- and stop trying to tell us all that we're wrong for liking a game we're good at that you aren't.

sigh please address all of my points I wasn't trying to to make it personal and telling me to shutup isn't the most relevant reply.. thanks

Um, I don't remember telling you to shut up. I just think you need to learn the difference between objective and subjective and, if you don't want to make it personal, use a less inflammatory thread title like, 'Why I think MGR was awful.'

Also, I told you: go watch the LP I mentioned, it's proof-positive that the game isn't the broken mess you make it out to be.

sorry edited my first reply... you told me to l2p but I got to the last boss so I did play but learn I did not... that's the whole point

in essence
me: I didn't learn anything
you:just learn something


irrelevant post

It's perfectly possible to get through things without knowing anything --hell I could probably walk into a garage tomorrow and work on cars for a few hours before anyone noticed I didn't know what I was doing-- what I'm saying is your problems stem from the fact you didn't learn anything.

I, similarly, made it all the way to the last boss without learning even the fundamental parts of the game mechanics, but I couldn't beat the last boss until I Youtubed it and learned where I'd been going wrong. Then I started watching other videos to learn more about the game and started experimenting with different tactics, myself, and now I'm about a million times better at it.

If you just refuse to learn where you're going wrong and assume it's all the games fault for being broken, then of course it stands to reason you will never improve, but if the game was really broken then no one would be able to get good at it; and there definitely wouldn't be people getting all S Ranks and 'no damage' runs.

broken might be hyperbole, no fun learning a flimsy and specific system that makes me want to pull my hair out, dark souls rewarding amd fun mg r not. refer to my previous posts about the jump attacks and unblockable offscreen attacks

 

[zerkocelot]

Still needs to be some sense in a hack and slash especially one involving pseudo competetive fighting game mechanics.

I think it does and as others and I have said, the game as a whole was enjoyable. Not that you have to agree of course, differing opinions and what not.

If it was a shallow experience how come I spent more time in dizzy in this than in all 3000 hours of fighting games.

Out of curiosity what other fighting games are you comparing this to? Is this your first game by Platinum Games? Perhaps it's their style you're not fond of.

if its mindless I shouldn't be so punished and frustrated. with a mob of enemies attacking you you could block one attack only to be stuck in the block and hit with a different unblockable attack because he was offscreen with his giant hammer... things like this happeneed all the time especially with the retarded orbital jump attacks which have terribly ambiguous parry directions (the bipedal robot cow things)

I wouldn't say it was mindless and you can block successive attacks from multiple enemies.

I played bayonetta loved it as blocking and dodging was more conventional. defending a normal attack only to be hit by an offscreen unblockable attack is like marvel unblockable guard break setups no fun and garunteed hits... see viper focus attakc with coldstar ammy assist on incoming

 

[FoolKiller]

Why would you use cod and sc2 as a comparison those are completely different genres sf and mgr are at least both fighting/action games (admittedly different anyway)...

The point he/she was making was that fighting and action games are just as different as an FPS and an RTS. The fact that both have blocking in them doesn't make them similar any more so than the fact that there is shooting in both the FPS and RTS. While the concepts are the same, the mechanics are different.

You imply that the skill is transferable when it is not. They are quite different creatures. Hell... playing Mortal Kombat well doesn't mean you can play Street Fighter well.

I have no issues when I'm trying to play MG:R, Bayonetta, DmC, Castlevania, Ninja Gaiden or any other 3rd person action game but I suck at fighting games. The mechanics in MG:R actually work really well but if you're expecting the tightness that a restrictive 2D game like Street Fighter can provide in a 3D action game then you will be let down repeatedly.

 

[rob_simple]

broken might be hyperbole, no fun learning a flimsy and specific system that makes me want to pull my hair out, dark souls rewarding amd fun mg r not. refer to my previous posts about the jump attacks and unblockable offscreen attacks

Okay, all that established was that you, in particular, do not like how the game plays. That does not make it a bad game. As stated previously, I enjoyed learning how the game worked and watching myself get better, (I was this close to beating Mistral with no damage, the other day.)

I'm not saying MGR is a perfect game, some of your complaints are valid, but I defy you to find me a single game that is perfect. No matter what way you slice it (haha, ahhh...see what I did there?) this whole thread just comes down to you personally not liking the game, and has very little in the way of objective criticism about the games actual quality.

If you don't like the game then that's your choice, I'm not telling you should like it just because I do, but don't swoop in here, spoiling for a fight, and trying to tell us why we're all mistaken for thinking MGR is fun to play and that the mechanics work well because we bothered to get to grips with them instead of calling shanaynays the first time a Hammer Bro turned our robotic spine into a concertina.

 

[zerkocelot]

Why would you use cod and sc2 as a comparison those are completely different genres sf and mgr are at least both fighting/action games (admittedly different anyway)...

The point he/she was making was that fighting and action games are just as different as an FPS and an RTS. The fact that both have blocking in them doesn't make them similar any more so than the fact that there is shooting in both the FPS and RTS. While the concepts are the same, the mechanics are different.

You imply that the skill is transferable when it is not. They are quite different creatures. Hell... playing Mortal Kombat well doesn't mean you can play Street Fighter well.

I have no issues when I'm trying to play MG:R, Bayonetta, DmC, Castlevania, Ninja Gaiden or any other 3rd person action game but I suck at fighting games. The mechanics in MG:R actually work really well but if you're expecting the tightness that a restrictive 2D game like Street Fighter can provide in a 3D action game then you will be let down repeatedly.

Im sorry you cannot admit that they both have blocking and combos 2 ckncepts that need to have the same mechanics and call them different. where as shooting in sc2 is only a sound and application of dmg in an fps it involes aiming...very diffeeent blocking and combo ing in dmc and sf fsirly similar but still different...

 

[zerkocelot]

broken might be hyperbole, no fun learning a flimsy and specific system that makes me want to pull my hair out, dark souls rewarding amd fun mg r not. refer to my previous posts about the jump attacks and unblockable offscreen attacks

Okay, all that established was that you, in particular, do not like how the game plays. That does not make it a bad game. As stated previously, I enjoyed learning how the game worked and watching myself get better, (I was this close to beating Mistral with no damage, the other day.)

I'm not saying MGR is a perfect game, some of your complaints are valid, but I defy you to find me a single game that is perfect. No matter what way you slice it (haha, ahhh...see what I did there?) this whole thread just comes down to you personally not liking the game, and has very little in the way of objective criticism about the games actual quality.

If you don't like the game then that's your choice, I'm not telling you should like it just because I do, but don't swoop in here, spoiling for a fight, and trying to tell us why we're all mistaken for thinking MGR is fun to play and that the mechanics work well because we bothered to get to grips with them instead of calling shanaynays the first time a Hammer Bro turned our robotic spine into a concertina.

I wasn't please refer to my op about blockstun and a recap post about the parry system its poorly made and rough at best and that's not my opinion its a result of compariosn to more solid fighting games. God hand people ... god hand

 

[dumbseizure]

broken might be hyperbole, no fun learning a flimsy and specific system that makes me want to pull my hair out, dark souls rewarding amd fun mg r not. refer to my previous posts about the jump attacks and unblockable offscreen attacks

Okay, all that established was that you, in particular, do not like how the game plays. That does not make it a bad game. As stated previously, I enjoyed learning how the game worked and watching myself get better, (I was this close to beating Mistral with no damage, the other day.)

I'm not saying MGR is a perfect game, some of your complaints are valid, but I defy you to find me a single game that is perfect. No matter what way you slice it (haha, ahhh...see what I did there?) this whole thread just comes down to you personally not liking the game, and has very little in the way of objective criticism about the games actual quality.

If you don't like the game then that's your choice, I'm not telling you should like it just because I do, but don't swoop in here, spoiling for a fight, and trying to tell us why we're all mistaken for thinking MGR is fun to play and that the mechanics work well because we bothered to get to grips with them instead of calling shanaynays the first time a Hammer Bro turned our robotic spine into a concertina.

I wasn't please refer to my op about blockstun and a recap post about the parry system its poorly made and rough at best and that's not my opinion its a result of compariosn to more solid fighting games. God hand people ... god hand

Oh. My. God.

IT ISN'T OBJECTIVE!

That is the thing, anything involving DESIGN, as in HOW THE PARRY SYSTEM IS DESIGNED ISN't OBJECTIVE, IT IS SUBJECTIVE!.

Want to know why? Because it was designed by other people, and it is not a FACT.

2+2=4 is correct, objectively.

The parry system being "poorly made and rough" isn't Objective. Even compared to another game, that doesn't make it OBJECTIVELY poor, that just makes it SUBJECTIVELY WORSE than that other game.

Please learn how to use the word OBJECTIVE correctly.

 

[anthony87]

I played bayonetta loved it as blocking and dodging was more conventional.

Really? Because because blocking an attack in Bayonetta required you to do the same thing you do in Metal Gear Rising. You can't even block in Bayonetta unless you have the right item equipped, hardly what I'd call conventional.

 

[zerkocelot]

broken might be hyperbole, no fun learning a flimsy and specific system that makes me want to pull my hair out, dark souls rewarding amd fun mg r not. refer to my previous posts about the jump attacks and unblockable offscreen attacks

Okay, all that established was that you, in particular, do not like how the game plays. That does not make it a bad game. As stated previously, I enjoyed learning how the game worked and watching myself get better, (I was this close to beating Mistral with no damage, the other day.)

I'm not saying MGR is a perfect game, some of your complaints are valid, but I defy you to find me a single game that is perfect. No matter what way you slice it (haha, ahhh...see what I did there?) this whole thread just comes down to you personally not liking the game, and has very little in the way of objective criticism about the games actual quality.

If you don't like the game then that's your choice, I'm not telling you should like it just because I do, but don't swoop in here, spoiling for a fight, and trying to tell us why we're all mistaken for thinking MGR is fun to play and that the mechanics work well because we bothered to get to grips with them instead of calling shanaynays the first time a Hammer Bro turned our robotic spine into a concertina.

I wasn't please refer to my op about blockstun and a recap post about the parry system its poorly made and rough at best and that's not my opinion its a result of compariosn to more solid fighting games. God hand people ... god hand

Oh. My. God.

IT ISN'T OBJECTIVE!

That is the thing, anything involving DESIGN, as in HOW THE PARRY SYSTEM IS DESIGNED ISN't OBJECTIVE, IT IS SUBJECTIVE!.

Want to know why? Because it was designed by other people, and it is not a FACT.

2+2=4 is correct, objectively.

The parry system being "poorly made and rough" isn't Objective. Even compared to another game, that doesn't make it OBJECTIVELY poor, that just makes it SUBJECTIVELY WORSE than that other game.

Please learn how to use the word OBJECTIVE correctly.

my argument isn't about MY (the subjects opinion) its about the object and how it doesn't work and how another similar object does...this is all irelevant to the discussion anyway... the analysis is mine (so I see where u are coming from) but its not based in my thought its based on my observations objective observations we all see what happens at 26:50 in the video right? and that was a horrid moment for anyone playing the game, a problem non existant in a fixed camera game