Why online distribution will suck

[thedoclc]

They die out and either move into the online distribution business, another sector of the gaming production, or simply start a new sort of business. I hate to sound entitled but when it comes to games, it's really all about the customer and the player. I don't think this will negatively effect the production of games and all it really does is kill off something that doesn't need to exist in the first place.

They die out and either move into the online distribution business, another sector of the gaming production, or simply start a new sort of business. I hate to sound entitled but when it comes to games, it's really all about the customer and the player. I don't think this will negatively effect the production of games and all it really does is kill off something that doesn't need to exist in the first place.

2nd hand sales don't need to exist? Really? REALLY? So things like Craigslist should be illegal? Used car dealerships hurt the car business? Garage sales are destroying the economy?

Really?

Your car comparison is massively flawed. Car manufacturers make a great deal of money, maybe even the majority, on servicing, parts and finance. A 2nd hand game is effectively the same as a new one, a 2nd hand car is considerably different to a new one.

Without 2nd hand game sales, publishers could charge as much as they wanted. $80 or $90 games wouldn't be out of the question. 2nd hand sales keep the market in check.

I still cannot see for the life of me how a used game is different from a used book, a used CD, or a used weight set.

You really don't understand economics do you. Companies CAN ONLY charge what people are willing to charge. Hell even at the £30-40 price point they have to lower over time because they know (well good companies do) that they have sold to everyone willing to pay that much.

You know what would happen if they rose prices, people would buy less games, and as a byproduct probably do other things like cinema,drinking,sports etc. The only reason that acitivision can get away with their price hike is because for this horrible second in time that is essentially THE game to own if you own a console (to casuals at least anyway).

Economists said people wouldn't keep buying as many games when prices went from $50 to $60. People ended up buying more. And with no other way to buy them but new, people will have to throw $80 or $90 for a game easy. If you a game that would sell 4 million copies at $60, you would likely sell 3 million copies at $80 if that's their only choice. What else can you do? Abandon gaming altogether?

*some economists. People are fallible, thats why we can't predict the weather.
And your people buying more at that price is only valid for one (very well publicised) series, if others followed suit they couldn't compete.

Sorry, Mr. Durden, but I want to see your source for the "Economists said" bit. Please find me a single economist who wrote a paper claiming that the demand for video games was so perfectly elastic that a 10 dollar shock would drive demand to zero. I would love to meet this idiot.

A history lesson, folks. Some SNES games cost $80 USD back in the 90's. TurboGrafix 16 games sold for about $250 a piece. NES games went for $50 USD - which adjusted from 1987 dollars to today's, is $99.71 according to the CPI Calculator. If you played a hundred games of Pac-Man at the arcade, you paid (in today's dollars) $50 to play video games you didn't even own!

Gaming survived.

Gaming is cheaper now than at any point in the past.

Edit: Come to think of it, you know what's an insane pricing strategy? $60 USD for all video games on consoles on release day.

Really?

On release day, the market-clearing price for CoD4 or ME2 is the same as the market-clearing price for Alone In the Dark or Kane and Lynch? This started in the Atari days, and all it did was leave consumers paying $20 (now, it would be about $47, using 1982 figures) for a game with no idea if they had just bought a gem like Adventure or a pile of crap like the port of Pac-Man. So, for $50, consumers just rolled the dice. Good, bad, simplistic and tiny or massive and cutting edge, they were all $20. Sound familiar? It's inane. Consumers were confused back then - those were the pre-internet days. Word of mouth about what was gold and what was crap was slow to spread. Now, today, we have faster access to information, but it's -still- overwhelming to new people -and- still just plain old weird. The same pricing scheme is in effect today.

Other products just aren't sold like this.

 

[Sectan]

I really feel more comfortable with a disc in my hand and that's all I need. Shit I have a Steam account, Windows Live account, Rockstar Games Social Club account, an EA account for BFBC2, and an account for Assassin's Creed 2. Now what happens when I forget one of these passwords? I'm Fucked. What happens if these companies happen to go out of business, or they just shut down these authentication servers? Same thing. I R Fucked. I paid for these games now let me play them!

 

[Googenstien]

I am old school - I like boxes, cd/dvd/bluray cases, instruction manuals, special editions and all that. Instead of a library of books I have a media library in my home with PC and console games in it that I love adding to and wish I never got rid of any game or system.

Online distribution takes away from all this and most of the times you don't even save any money buying games online vs in store or having it shipped to you. Some gamee types benefit from online distribution - MMOs can more easily support their users with expansions and addons this way.

But in the end I dont like Online Distribution because it gives you nothing physical to hold on to. In 5-10 years if you want to play that game again you cant walk to your library and install the game, you have to hope and pray that the 50 bucks you spent on a digital game still has a home for you to download and install the game again.

 

[thedoclc]

They die out and either move into the online distribution business, another sector of the gaming production, or simply start a new sort of business. I hate to sound entitled but when it comes to games, it's really all about the customer and the player. I don't think this will negatively effect the production of games and all it really does is kill off something that doesn't need to exist in the first place.

They die out and either move into the online distribution business, another sector of the gaming production, or simply start a new sort of business. I hate to sound entitled but when it comes to games, it's really all about the customer and the player. I don't think this will negatively effect the production of games and all it really does is kill off something that doesn't need to exist in the first place.

2nd hand sales don't need to exist? Really? REALLY? So things like Craigslist should be illegal? Used car dealerships hurt the car business? Garage sales are destroying the economy?

Really?

Your car comparison is massively flawed. Car manufacturers make a great deal of money, maybe even the majority, on servicing, parts and finance. A 2nd hand game is effectively the same as a new one, a 2nd hand car is considerably different to a new one.

Without 2nd hand game sales, publishers could charge as much as they wanted. $80 or $90 games wouldn't be out of the question. 2nd hand sales keep the market in check.

I still cannot see for the life of me how a used game is different from a used book, a used CD, or a used weight set.

You really don't understand economics do you. Companies CAN ONLY charge what people are willing to charge. Hell even at the £30-40 price point they have to lower over time because they know (well good companies do) that they have sold to everyone willing to pay that much.

You know what would happen if they rose prices, people would buy less games, and as a byproduct probably do other things like cinema,drinking,sports etc. The only reason that acitivision can get away with their price hike is because for this horrible second in time that is essentially THE game to own if you own a console (to casuals at least anyway).

Economists said people wouldn't keep buying as many games when prices went from $50 to $60. People ended up buying more. And with no other way to buy them but new, people will have to throw $80 or $90 for a game easy. If you a game that would sell 4 million copies at $60, you would likely sell 3 million copies at $80 if that's their only choice. What else can you do? Abandon gaming altogether?

*some economists". People are fallible, thats why we can't predict the weather.
And your people buying more at that price is only valid for one (very well publicised) series, if others followed suit they couldn't compete.

Sorry, Mr. Durden, but I want to see your source for the "Economists said" bit. Please find me a single economist who wrote a paper claiming that the demand for video games was so perfectly elastic that a 10 dollar shock would drive demand to zero. I would love to meet this idiot.

A history lesson, folks. Some SNES games cost $80 USD back in the 90's. TurboGrafix 16 games sold for about $250 a piece. NES games went for $50 USD - which adjusted from 1987 dollars to today's, is $99.71 according to the CPI Calculator. If you played a hundred games of Pac-Man at the arcade, you paid (in today's dollars) $50 to play video games you didn't even own!

Gaming survived.

Gaming is cheaper now than at any point in the past.

you quoted the wrong person, im on your side. The robert guy is the one you wanted ^^

It's a Fight Club reference. "His name is Robert Paulson." Tyler Durden?

Or did the forum send you a funny message? It seems finicky about that.

Though I'd still want to meet -any- economist who said that.

So I could point and laugh.

 

[k-ossuburb]

Jim's rant on digital distribution was stolen from Foamy anyway, and he put it a hell of a lot better.

 

[Michael Hirst]

I like the Steam system, at first I was opposed to it but over the years it has gained my trust and I haven't had any security issues on it, I also love the sales that frequently pop up allowing people who are on a tight budget to experience great games that they might not otherwise risk their money on, for example I bought Just Cause 2 for £5 quite some time ago and absolutely loved it.

There's also far more indie support on Steam than any other download platform, second place would probably be XBLA, but I love being given access to games like Super Meat Boy on the cheap. Also one of my favourite games last year was an Indie title technically (Amnesia the Dark Descent)

As for retailers and stuff, well they won't even stock PC games these days and if they do its very limited so they're killing themselves as much as Steam is, plus the whole point of a retail store is to make profit on the game without having any contribution to its creation.

My only big problem with the Steam platform is new games being so expensive even without the cost of retail to pay for, the games could easily sell at 10% less than ACTUAL retail price.

Meanwhile on the console front I very rarely buy a PS3 game at all now, games are expensive even a long time after release, I'm expected to believe £25 is a LOW price yet that's the release price on a lot of PC games and with more convenience and a better product on PC (You know becuase they play most games better) I buy everything that I can on PC (as for control schemes on console, I have a 360 pad and the whole sit on sofa to play thing, I can plug it into my HDTV). The PS3 is now a caddy for console exclusives (Dark Souls being top of the list right now)

 

[CannibalCorpses]

snip

What benefit do you feel from DRM? Is it something that adds to your experience or is it possibly just a stumbling block for you in the future? The online only DRMs are going to have an effect the first time your internet goes down for any length of time and how will that benefit you?

I feel there is a large benefit for the developers which has a back lash to the consumer.
It also helps games like Diablo 3 to help stop cheaters from breaking the games auction house.
There are some more subtle forms of DRM like Steam, which gives you a friends list as well as create sales and other things.
Not all DRM is good I just don't intend to be single minded and crucify all forms of it.

There is a benefit to publishers for sure but it doesn't have much effect on developers because they get paid regardless. Will developers get paid more if publishers make more money? I don't know is the honest answer, it does sometimes work out that way in other businesses but is by no means certain. I'm not sure if they get royalties as part of their deal so i can't really explore that further.

Diablo is a strange one because you can't actually play it offline anymore. You used to have to make a new character to play online so i'm not sure how stopping you playing it offline will have much effect other than to stop people who don't have internet or who have poor connections from playing at all. Game exploits and bugs will still remain and that will have an effect on the game over time, like it does with all games. People will always try to find an easier route to what they perceive as the end goal.

I'm not crucifying DRM i'm just trying to find one positive effect for the consumer. I hear lots of people jumping to it's defence but until i see a real bonus for me i will always remain sceptical as to how it could be used against me in the future.

I don't use steam so i can't really comment much on it but can you play steam games offline or do you need to be signed into steam and online?

Anyway, i've got a job interview so i wont be replying for a while.

 

[CorvusFerreum]

Except no second hand game stores deal in PC games. They can't actually because of you having in register the games.

This. For us PC gamers, this has been the "hard" reality for the past 8 or so years, and I'm totally okay with it. Online distribution won't change that.

Online distribution kinda has lead to this. And seriously: I don't really accept this. I hate it, that Steam has become DRM for so many games, I hate the trend to stuff like allways online DRM and I especially hate, that I technicly don't own the fucking games I pay fucking money for. I seriously considered pirating copies of the Total War games since Empire because I can run them without having to deal with steam. I bought them anyway, but with a bitter aftertaste. And those who pirate don't need to deal with that sort of shit. They don't need to register at Steam, if they don't want to. And they have all the content on the disc unloked without having to pay extra bugs.

I want the industry to make profit, I like digital distribution, but I hate being srewed over and forced to use it, just because the industry feels like it's not getting enough of the cake. And I hate to not be able to do what I want with stuff I've bought (like modding or, indeed, reselling).

/rant

 

[Dogstile]

They die out and either move into the online distribution business, another sector of the gaming production, or simply start a new sort of business. I hate to sound entitled but when it comes to games, it's really all about the customer and the player. I don't think this will negatively effect the production of games and all it really does is kill off something that doesn't need to exist in the first place.

They die out and either move into the online distribution business, another sector of the gaming production, or simply start a new sort of business. I hate to sound entitled but when it comes to games, it's really all about the customer and the player. I don't think this will negatively effect the production of games and all it really does is kill off something that doesn't need to exist in the first place.

2nd hand sales don't need to exist? Really? REALLY? So things like Craigslist should be illegal? Used car dealerships hurt the car business? Garage sales are destroying the economy?

Really?

Your car comparison is massively flawed. Car manufacturers make a great deal of money, maybe even the majority, on servicing, parts and finance. A 2nd hand game is effectively the same as a new one, a 2nd hand car is considerably different to a new one.

Without 2nd hand game sales, publishers could charge as much as they wanted. $80 or $90 games wouldn't be out of the question. 2nd hand sales keep the market in check.

I still cannot see for the life of me how a used game is different from a used book, a used CD, or a used weight set.

You really don't understand economics do you. Companies CAN ONLY charge what people are willing to charge. Hell even at the £30-40 price point they have to lower over time because they know (well good companies do) that they have sold to everyone willing to pay that much.

You know what would happen if they rose prices, people would buy less games, and as a byproduct probably do other things like cinema,drinking,sports etc. The only reason that acitivision can get away with their price hike is because for this horrible second in time that is essentially THE game to own if you own a console (to casuals at least anyway).

Economists said people wouldn't keep buying as many games when prices went from $50 to $60. People ended up buying more. And with no other way to buy them but new, people will have to throw $80 or $90 for a game easy. If you a game that would sell 4 million copies at $60, you would likely sell 3 million copies at $80 if that's their only choice. What else can you do? Abandon gaming altogether?

You're not actually posting any sources, which makes your argument not exactly valid. I'm going to assume you meant the Modern Warfare 2 price hike, which again, does not count in the UK at least because a major fuck up made it so that we all got the game for roughly half the usual price for games, which is £20.

But one game being marked up in price doesn't mean everyone can do it, the only reason activision got away with it is because their game breaks sales records. Its not as if every company can claim that.

 

[Jodah]

Eh I dunno that its really that big a deal. PC games haven't really seen much in the ways of resale since CD keys were implemented. Now if DD becomes big for consoles it may become more of an issue and the first step is happening soon with the Vita but we will have to see how that pans out.

 

[SilverUchiha]

They die out and either move into the online distribution business, another sector of the gaming production, or simply start a new sort of business. I hate to sound entitled but when it comes to games, it's really all about the customer and the player. I don't think this will negatively effect the production of games and all it really does is kill off something that doesn't need to exist in the first place.

They die out and either move into the online distribution business, another sector of the gaming production, or simply start a new sort of business. I hate to sound entitled but when it comes to games, it's really all about the customer and the player. I don't think this will negatively effect the production of games and all it really does is kill off something that doesn't need to exist in the first place.

2nd hand sales don't need to exist? Really? REALLY? So things like Craigslist should be illegal? Used car dealerships hurt the car business? Garage sales are destroying the economy?

Really?

I don't believe they're saying they are "wrong" and shouldn't exist. But that, in the end, there is no reason to keep them around. Sure, they're nice for cheap games. And we all know digital distribution console wide will take a while (so long as Nintendo and Xbox are still around, yes I think PS3 will be the first to try it). So we have 2nd-hand retailers for a while and they'll provide a good service for acquiring old Nintendo games we've lost of to get us old Ps2 games we missed out on. But I don't think they'll be necessary services once the digital distribution thing is all the industry does. I will say that if companies bring back old games to be digitally distributed, there should be a way I can get titles I already own for free so I'm not forced into buying multiple copies for the next console iteration.

 

[Navvan]

They die out and either move into the online distribution business, another sector of the gaming production, or simply start a new sort of business. I hate to sound entitled but when it comes to games, it's really all about the customer and the player. I don't think this will negatively effect the production of games and all it really does is kill off something that doesn't need to exist in the first place.

2nd hand sales don't need to exist? Really? REALLY? So things like Craigslist should be illegal? Used car dealerships hurt the car business? Garage sales are destroying the economy?

Really?

I won't get into the whole "are used video games hurting the manufacturer debate" but its rather clear that a used market does not have to exist. Not having them certainly won't hurt the industry and it won't really hurt the consumer either. For the consumer with things like steam sales happening several times a year you can get a good deal on a game if you're willing to wait for a price reduction in a similar fashion that you can get a used game. Price reductions also occur, and there is even the occasional free game. While the whole swap used games thing is kinda dead in the water, that is the price you pay for convenience. The industry certainly won' mind. The major used game distributors also don't really give any good deals anyway. I've certainly never seen any as good as a steam sale at my local stores.

You also blew that post out of proportion. Neither did they say it should be illegal to sell used games nor that it should be illegal to sell used goods in general. They simply stated that the deterioration of the used game market will likely be inconsequential to the consumer.

 

[direkiller]

Don't get me wrong, i absolutely love steam and other distributors. In fact since i started buying games online i haven't bought a physical copy of a game in years. But after watching the most recent Jimquisition, he said that online passes will destroy second hand game sales.

And then i saw my steam account.

I have over 60 games and i quickly realized that those games are mine FOREVER (unless of course you lose your account)
That means i cant sell, swap or even give away these games when i get bored of them or have simply played them through. Which leads us to the point of: If the popularity of online distribution gets so popular that future consoles and PC's will simply download all their games, what happens to the second retailer or buyer?

You haven't been able to get PC games second hand for a while now due to CD keys and online regetration so i don't see the problem.
unless consoles doing this as well in which case not everywhere has good internet so brick and mortar stores are not going to die out any time soon

 

[razer17]

Economists said people wouldn't keep buying as many games when prices went from $50 to $60. People ended up buying more. And with no other way to buy them but new, people will have to throw $80 or $90 for a game easy. If you a game that would sell 4 million copies at $60, you would likely sell 3 million copies at $80 if that's their only choice. What else can you do? Abandon gaming altogether?

LEt's not forget that the market has been growing massively in the last ten years. More customers means more sales, but as a percentage of customers who are buying games, it drops. Now when you consider that today the market for consoles and gaming PC's is a lot more saturated, there consumer base can't expand enough to keep making the same kind of money. If games went up to 80 or $90 then people would stop buying games, or be very selective about what games they buy. Some people only buy 3 or 4 new release titles are year now, because that's all they can afford. IF games were $90, maybe they'd only buy 2, so two developers would lose out.

Not only that, but the market for 70-80% scoring games would significantly drop, as everyone tries to buy only the best games that come out. At the moment a lot of people can't afford to buy many games. I can't imagine how much more rampant piracy would become if they really raised prices that much.

 

[winter2]

60 steam games? pfffft! call me when you have over 400.

 

[ManOwaRrior]

Give us ways to digitally rent games like we do with movies. Properly done it solves a lot of problems.

 

[hooksashands]

When I was little, I saved up and bought physical games and music. Then as I got older the vinyls and tapes and cartridges were all replaced by shimmery plastic discs, and I started hearing about how they were going to encode them and do wonderful things. Still, I think then and there I knew there would be a dark side to it. And sure enough, along comes piracy and code verification and people being put in jail cells with rapists for downloading mp3s or cracking games.

I wish we could go back to a simpler time.

 

[Pakkie]

Things such as Steam accounts and Battle.net accounts etc... Are bought and sold regularly, its actually quite a "big" business.
Although, it is completely illegal and pretty dodgy so I don't partake, I just know a lot of sites where it does happen.

 

[Sud0_x]

It takes me 2 days to download an 8gig game -_-

0_o

How is that even possible?

I have a fairly decent internet connection, and I live on a god damn island in the middle of the atlantic.

You think that's bad?

[http://www.speedtest.net]

I hate these threads, people just don't give a fuck if it doesn't affect them.
These days I have to check for the Steam logo on the back of the box, if it's there then 9 times out of 10 I'll put that game back.
Too many times I've suffered that inconvenience.

It seems like such a small thing, and I know I'm in the minority, but if DD gets any more market share it's looking pretty bleak for guys like me. Non-optional online services kick me in the balls too, I've posted before about the time a couple years ago when my hours at work took a hit right after I'd moved into a new place and I could barely afford to feed myself. I could only dream of having the luxury of the internet.


Not to mention it's cheaper for me to buy a new release on ebay (incl. shipping) than it is to buy it in a store or on Steam.
How ridiculous is that? On top of that our government is still trying to play nanny.

You know what? Perhaps I'll take up knitting...

 

[Tanakh]

Give us ways to digitally rent games like we do with movies. Properly done it solves a lot of problems.

http://www.onlive.com/ ? I think its crap, but it is more or less what you asked for.