Why PC gamers should love (or at least not hate) consoles

JohnnyDelRay

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WaaghPowa said:
JohnnyDelRay said:
WaaghPowa said:
JohnnyDelRay said:
If anything, PC gamers should be more afraid of cloud computing, and this tile-based OS that looks to be on the horizon, holy crap that looks bad, i honestly have nightmares about it.
Don't think there's much to worry about as far as cloud gaming goes. Onlive as a rental service? sure, but paying full price for essentially nothing but ACCESS to the game? Don't think people will take to that very well.
Hope you're right, it does sound ridiculous, so I'm just keeping my fingers crossed they don't come up with some other creative pricing scheme in order to have the general population running just 'terminals' in their homes. What with modern DRM, it's been a while since the days of just owning a game, installing it and playing it whenever you want, on any system, without having to be online and updated and what have you. (Kind of like playing CD's in your car). Which is something that console gaming still has going for it.
Cloud gaming wont catch on for a long time until certain things happen:
1) they set up servers somewhere OTHER than the USA
2) Internet connections become faster and more affordable
3) Other nations adopt the unlimited data allowance scheme, which I can tell you living in Canada, will not happen any time soon.
4) like you said, make it affordable, because who the fuck in their right mind would pay full price for access to the game?!

Consoles may have the whole "You just need a disc" thing going for them now, but with the way technology is going and how consoles are basically mutating into these restrictive game only computers, it wont be long till they start implementing the same serial cod registration system that they do for PC games, since they will get easier and easier to pirate. And we all know how paranoid publishers and developers have been with piracy lately.
Heh, it's good reading your post, I actually feel a little looser in the shoulders now =P
The odd thing about the unlimited data scheme, is some countries with not enough infrastructure for its population (i.e: 3rd world, struggling to keep up) have unlimited data. And countries like Canada and Australia are still having caps of all kinds, although I hear AU is loosening up a bit. It's good watching the other side of the coin started by CD Projekt, I hope the DRM battle tones down a bit, after Ubisoft's recent antics and rootkit debacles.

Consoles are running a back-forth battle now with piracy, updating their firmware 'keys' and the crackers just outdoing them again later. So I wouldn't be surprised if they start implementing some new registration method like you mentioned. At least for the online play and registration side of things.
 

JohnnyDelRay

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Selvec said:
Been saying it for years.

However, the downside is that they aren't becoming PC's. They are becoming Macs! Boxes with hardware which cannot be changed, and is all bog standards, sold at high prices with software that is limited to the one system.

Yep. Consoles are becoming Macs, and that is a very very very bad thing.
It is a bad thing, and they would have become Macs a long time ago (as in, overpriced fixed hardware) had there not been any competition. Thankfully there have always been at least 2 companies in the game, keeping the prices down and the standards up.

Although other companies try to keep up, people are wholly taken up by Apple's technology and business model and buy everything newer, shinier and slimmer every year. This generation's console launch was f'ing sloppy to say the least, with Sony's delay and Xbox's red ring saga. That comes as a result of them trying to outdo each other, and losing money in the process. Can you imagine what a single gaming platform would do to the industry
 

RhombusHatesYou

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TiefBlau said:
RhombusHatesYou said:
Most PC gamers aren't going to give a flying fuck except for "what impact will it have on PC gaming?"
Well, I for one have plenty of friends that I'd like to LAN party with.
... and something's stopping you, why?

From my experience organising a LAN party is about as difficult as organising any other type of games night, only with more power boards needed.


RhombusHatesYou said:
Edit: It's like saying people should give Bobby Kotick more respect because his approach is "good for the industry". Big fucking whoop when "good for the industry" where he's concerned is almost always diametrically opposed to "good for the consumer".
That's not economically, linguistically, or historically correct.

Also, while it's true that Kotick should be skinned and raped, his existence is still a sign of a healthy industry, in the same way obesity epidemics are a sign of a well-fed country.
The thing being that 'the health of the industry' and 'the health of the hobby' are not the same.


RhombusHatesYou said:
Take this "broadening appeal" nonsense. Sure, it's good for publishers if they churn out games that appeal to the widest base possible... but c'mon... how many people are already bitching about the staleness and lack of originality in big budget games? How is pandering even more to the lowest common denominator going to help that? How can we go around thinking our hobby is gaining acceptance and respect when even our own industry treats us like losers who need to give way to the majority?
Say what you want, but I guarantee you we wouldn't have the choices, the technology, or the budget that we have for games today if gaming didn't have a larger audience, and no amount of cries for the nonexistent "good old days" of gaming is going to change that.
Who's crying for some imaginary 'good old days' of gaming? As someone who's been gaming for near on 35 years now, I can say that the hobby is as good as it's ever been. Might not necessarily be better but it's sure as fuck not any worse. The industry that serves the hobby, though? Well, if you're in the industry it's probably fucking awesome to earn decent money for your skills these days... but the bullshit the consumer has to put up with? Gah. makes me want to stab publishing execs.

As for the budgets... they're half the problem. Publishers are blowing so much cash on AAA games now that they've become totally risk adverse. They enforce the whole middle-roading and racing to the lowest common denominator crap to maximise sales... But what else can they do? Try to ween the majority of gamers off big budget glitz and flash? Yeah, that'll work a treat.
 

Bludge

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shrekfan246 said:
Consoles are certainly a more simple way for people to enter the gaming scene. You don't have to worry about whether or not your hardware will run it, you don't have to worry about whether or not there will be installation or compatibility issues (usually), and I can't say that I've ever had hardware (or software for that matter) issues with my PS3 (My 360 is only a few weeks old, not nearly long enough to know if the "Red Ring of Doom" will strike me).
I really dont understand where all this "games always have compatibility issues and dont install properly" argument comes from. i own literally hundreds of pc games and the only problems i have ever had have been with OS upgrades, ie most recently KotOR not working on windows 7, and occasionally driver issues.
But that is no different from me buying a ps2 game and trying to play it on my xbox 360. (now i know that the xbox has a certain degree of backwards compatibility, but last i checked it wasnt covering every xbox game from the previous gen. cant comment on ps3 as i dont own one.) and in general most games recieve patches for compatibility when a new version of windows is realeased.
Granted it will never be as plug and play as a console, but as long as you take care of your pc and check the compatibility of games if there is any doubt, you wont suffer these problems.

As for hardware, i would say from personal experience that pc hardware is much less prone to failure then the current consoles. over my last 2 pc builds which have spanned about 3-4 years, i have had a bad stick of ram that caused the odd blue screen of death, but was still useable.

Over the last 2 years, i have owned 4 xbox 360s, 3 of which have red ringed. 2 with the generic 3 red rings, one with an e74 error. and one of the red ringed ones after i fixed and was ok for a while, blew a capacitor on the motherboard which was involved in power distribution. So now i have a very expensive paperweight.
And unlike my pc, i cant just remove the gpu, cpu and ram and buy a cheap new motherboard to get the machine up and running, i have to buy a whole new machine. And the console gamers think that this is a pro for console gaming?
 

Dexiro

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WaaghPowa said:
3) There's always LAN, people who play on PC's don't gather around the monitor. Also the "Nice big TV" argument doesn't make too much sense to me. Yes, it's big, but the larger the screen the further back you sit. So your 40 inch TV at 6 feet just ends up looking the same size as my 23 inch monitor from 2 feet.
There is LAN yes, but that's why I specifically said that consoles were better for multiplayer on a single system. LAN is great and all but it does mean having every lug their towers, monitors and whichever ton of peripherals to some poor guys house - unless you're hiring a venue and having a full on LAN party. Laptops are an improvement butthe point still stands that consoles are simply easier to use.

And the TV argument makes perfect sense too. You're saying that sitting far from a TV makes it not much different from a PC monitor, true, but this is in comparison to having loads of people sitting far from an actual PC monitor - unless you plan on having everyone gather chairs around a PC desk, which in most cases would be very awkward.

WaaghPowa said:
4) Though this may also be true, console games are usually reduced in texture and resolution quality to do so. Most console games, as far as textural resolutions go, go often reach 720p and have pretty low FPS. Also any issue you get on a PC game can be easily fixed 9 times out of 10 with a simple google search.
Any amount of faffing just reinforces the point that consoles are easier to use. Not to mention not everyone is techy enough to be able to solve any problem in 5 minutes with any amount of googling.

WaaghPowa said:
I would also like to remind people that PC gaming isn't the same as console gaming, you don't build a PC just for games. People, like myself, have just combined their games with their computers. Since computers are basically a necessity, why not have both in one place? The average person spends too much on a sub standard computer then goes out to but a console for 300 dollars. If you combined that cost, you'd have a decent gaming rig.
I agree, they're not the same, but the argument is whether PC's are better than consoles. They both serve different purposes. Convenience is a massive selling point for consoles, and the social aspects

I mean I'd personally love a new PC, but the PC I have is 8 years old and none of the hardware is supported, like hell would I know how to upgrade this thing without just replacing all of it. Consoles are just more convenient, and more useful for the type of gaming that I do.
 

Joccaren

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Optimist eh? I think not!

Well, yes consoles are becoming more and more like PCs, but I think they have reached the point where only the hardware is going to be upgraded, and the OS will remain relatively similar. Why? Because console sellers don't want to lose money, and if they turned consoles into PCs (even subtly, people would find out and say 'Well why don't I get an actual PC then?'
Current reason: People don't think they understand PCs when, in all reality, the things some of them do with consoles can be far more difficult than the things they claim only a tech genius would know how to do with computers.
When Sony release a PC (PS3 doesn't count, whatever they might have said about it, it is not a PC): A battle of the OSs. I think this would be good for the business, especially considering that a number of people might still have loyalty to the console makers (Or just go with the herp derp reason of 'I've always used a console, so I'm still going too even though that thing is better (which it may or may not be). This would hopefully encourage microsoft to get of their asses and make a windows that is genuinely good. (Windows Vista was horrible for anyone user who had used a windows product before, 7 was a bit better due to its useful features, but I still prefer XP. I still go through the control panel and such thinking I'm running XP, only to go 'wait, I'm not'.

Meh, who really knows what will happen in the future, I'm hedging my bets on nothing we say (within reason, making pointless and obvious observations [the sun will rise tomorrow for example] does not count) is going to be correct, but once again, who knows.
 

RhombusHatesYou

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Dexiro said:
I mean I'd personally love a new PC, but the PC I have is 8 years old and none of the hardware is supported, like hell would I know how to upgrade this thing without just replacing all of it. Consoles are just more convenient, and more useful for the type of gaming that I do.
8 years old? You could only upgrade it to something slightly less obsolete without a total rebuild... assuming you could find the parts.


As for consoles and convenience... I find them damned inconvenient. They also don't suit my curmudgeonly lifestyle.
 

Katana314

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shrekfan246 said:
Well, I was referring more to someone who knows little-to-nothing about PC gaming but wants to try it out, sorry for not clarifying that.
So was I, honestly. You need to do more research than with a console (even buying a console involves a bit of research) but it's kind of a common scenario. I want to get involved in ________, but I know nothing about how ________ works, so I ask online what I would need to get started, and what product recommendations there are for someone in my price range and needs. I buy something, and it works out fine from there.

Fill in the blank:
the internet
knitting
skydiving
snorkeling
PC gaming
home repair
cooking

OK, so it doesn't make immediate sense to ask online about the internet.
 

Dexiro

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RhombusHatesYou said:
Dexiro said:
I mean I'd personally love a new PC, but the PC I have is 8 years old and none of the hardware is supported, like hell would I know how to upgrade this thing without just replacing all of it. Consoles are just more convenient, and more useful for the type of gaming that I do.
8 years old? You could only upgrade it to something slightly less obsolete without a total rebuild... assuming you could find the parts.
That's what I thought. It bugged me that loads of people are using arguments like "all you need to do is slot in a new graphics card and away you go", for a lot of people this won't be the case.
 

Waaghpowa

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Dexiro said:
I agree, they're not the same, but the argument is whether PC's are better than consoles. They both serve different purposes. Convenience is a massive selling point for consoles, and the social aspects

I mean I'd personally love a new PC, but the PC I have is 8 years old and none of the hardware is supported, like hell would I know how to upgrade this thing without just replacing all of it. Consoles are just more convenient, and more useful for the type of gaming that I do.
Convenient they may be, but my biggest issue with the convenience argument is that you're paying more than you should for it. Extra accessories and games costing on average 10 dollars more etc. I just figure if you have the money for a PC at home and to spend on a console with all the necessary accessories, there's not much holding you back from actually building a decent game pc. Whether it's due to laziness or not, these companies are making a killing off it.

It's basically how my brain calculates these things, what gives me the most for my money. It's one of the reasons I feel that a PS3 is better vs the Xbox, since I don't need to spend 150 dollars after the fact to get what the PS3 comes with.
 

Katana314

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Dexiro said:
RhombusHatesYou said:
Dexiro said:
I mean I'd personally love a new PC, but the PC I have is 8 years old and none of the hardware is supported, like hell would I know how to upgrade this thing without just replacing all of it. Consoles are just more convenient, and more useful for the type of gaming that I do.
8 years old? You could only upgrade it to something slightly less obsolete without a total rebuild... assuming you could find the parts.
That's what I thought. It bugged me that loads of people are using arguments like "all you need to do is slot in a new graphics card and away you go", for a lot of people this won't be the case.
Well, be fair in both cases. If I got my TV and console 8 years ago, I'd need to be completely replacing both (as it would likely be a PS2-era console, and a small CRT TV not suitable for HD games)
 

RhombusHatesYou

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WaaghPowa said:
games costing on average 10 dollars more
That +$10/game is why the consoles themselves are cheap (relatively speaking). The manufacturers sell at or below cost (changes over the product life of the console) and make the money back (and a truckload more) from game sales.
 

Waaghpowa

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RhombusHatesYou said:
WaaghPowa said:
games costing on average 10 dollars more
That +$10/game is why the consoles themselves are cheap (relatively speaking). The manufacturers sell at or below cost (changes over the product life of the console) and make the money back (and a truckload more) from game sales.
Well yeah, I realize that but some cases, like EA games, where they're 80 bucks? that's a little absurd.

Edit: to clarifiy, an EA sport game in Canada is 69.99 plus 13% taxes = about 78 dollars.
 

RhombusHatesYou

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WaaghPowa said:
Well yeah, I realize that but some cases, like EA games, where they're 80 bucks? that's a little absurd.

Edit: to clarifiy, an EA sport game in Canada is 69.99 plus 13% taxes = about 78 dollars.

You don't want to get into game price comparisons with an Australian. AU$80-$100 for new PC titles, AU$100-120+ for new console titles.
 

Waaghpowa

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RhombusHatesYou said:
WaaghPowa said:
Well yeah, I realize that but some cases, like EA games, where they're 80 bucks? that's a little absurd.

Edit: to clarifiy, an EA sport game in Canada is 69.99 plus 13% taxes = about 78 dollars.

You don't want to get into game price comparisons with an Australian. AU$80-$100 for new PC titles, AU$100-120+ for new console titles.
Doesn't change the fact that the game prices are absurd :p
 

Conza

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Giantpanda602 said:
The other day, I was debating PC vs. consoles with my friend. Being the neutral bastard that I am, I agreed that PC games were generally of better quality than their console counterpart. Still, I had to defend the consoles. I've been a console gamer my entire life (besides WoW for around 4 years). Looking back, I see a pattern in consoles that should make PC gamers happy. Its mainly this, consoles are becoming PC's. Slowly, we are seeing the push for more features on the consoles that only the PC previously had. If, all of a sudden, consoles stopped being made, then you would see a huge drop in the amount of gamers around the world. As consoles get more and more amazing tech, more people learn how to deal with everything the PC has to offer while it still is in a controlled setting.

Basically, the consoles are evolving into PC's. I predict that after the next console cycle, which will might end around 2018, everybody who can afford a good PC will have one. Everybody will know how to use it to its full potential, everybody will be happy.
On that last point, who knows if we'll even still have PCs by then? We could all be subscribing to some super fast gaming cloud on the internet, and recieve video to a monitor, transferring our inputs over the internet?

I struggle to agree with your premise, and in a world where we have this mass divide between the console and the PC, in various ways, the first and most important being cost, the more the console turns into a PC like device, if it does, the less justification there is to go out and get one.

What else does it have? Well controllers are better for some things like platformers, fighting and racing games, but with cheap enough specialised peripherals (or proper eye toy/ kinnect / other web cam software), the PC then has all the input advantages, even if it still costs more.

Ok, the console screen is usually larger than the PC screen, granted, and excluding those among us who have 50 inch televisions as desktops, we could all get fancy prjectors to save space, but otherwise I can't think of a solution the PC has there.

'If' all of a sudden, all of the console manufactuerers stopped, we know for certain, many people would only keep their consoles, whilst many others would trade in it in and buy a gaming PC. It'd be the last avenue for online game play, (it's more likely consoles will instead evolve somehow but if it did), you can bet all the developers would drop tools and gear things for PCs.

I understand what you're trying to say, consoles do provide many people with the ability to play games, which they potentially couldn't afford (at the time of purchasing the console) necessarily, to do with a PC, and I would find it hard for anyone to claim against this as being the no.1 why consoles are so successful.

But let's face it, excluding the 1-2 year blip, when a new generation of consoles are released, PCs will almost always be more powerful and a more secure option for gamers. Businesses use PCs, the general public all use PCs, so when it comes to specialised gaming PCs, you can bet one thing for certain. If anything were to go down first, in our current state of affiares, it would be the console 'as we know of it today' before the PC.

I would love for them to join forces. In my perfect world, a console would be no larger than a 5 1/2 Blu-ray drive, and you could sit it on your desk or install it in your PC, it would then defer to a minimum rated graphics card, in your PC, to do it's processing, whilst still being required to read the discs and have its own boot set up or software to install on your machine, and things would be hunkey doorey.

You could plug in your controllers when your friends came around, or, keep the mouse and keyboard for online fps, and vice versa (almost), have a controller for online racing/fighting games. Then we'd still have 'oo, you bought the Playstation console, mines better because I bought the Microsoft console' ect, but new and future games wouldn't continue to look dated 3 years after the console is released.