Why people give Obsidian a little to much credit (IMO)

[Elyxard]

Having backed Project Eternity, I had begun to realize that I had never actually played an Obsidian game before (unless Planescape Torment counts, which I only played a little bit of). Since then, I've kinda gone on an Obsidian Binge, completing Alpha Protocol (twice), just about complete with Kotor 2, and moving on to New Vegas next.

And I have to say, after what I've played, I have the utmost respect and confidence in their ability to make great games that matter to me. I won't defend the buggy nature of their releases, but the maturity of their writing and their ability create complex and dynamic storylines is beyond reproach.

It is insane the backlash that Alpha Protocol got. I went in expecting mediocrity from everything I've heard, and instead it came out to be my personal game of the year. The storytelling puts Mass Effect and Heavy Rain's dynamic storytelling to absolute shame. The game mechanics might not be the creme of the crop, but they're serviceable to the point where there's really not much to complain about.

I will fully admit that mechanics have never been all that important to me though (Xenogears, a mechanically broken game, is among my most favorites ever). I'm just saying that if story is what you look for the most out of videogames, I'm starting to believe that Obsidian are the best in that regard.

 

[Olikar]

But they always seem to need that foundation of other peoples work to build on.

But what's wrong with that? Most games use an outside engine, I mean almost all modern fps games are based on the work of John Carmack.

Edit:

I will fully admit that mechanics have never been all that important to me though (Xenogears, a mechanically broken game, is among my most favorites ever). I'm just saying that if story is what you look for the most out of videogames, I'm starting to believe that Obsidian are the best in that regard.

Personally as some who enjoys gameplay over story I could also say that not only do Obsidian do the best storylines in modern WRPGS they do the best gameplay too, they're the only company left who still incorporate proper role play mechanics.

 

[Gethsemani_v1legacy]

Thing is, if you get fucked by the publisher every time you have to ask yourself what you are doing wrong. Executive meddling does happen, but with this frequency?

One could also wonder how Obsidian manages to stick around and make games, considering that most other developers only get one or two chances and if they get screwed by the publisher they have to fold. The fact that Obsidian repeatedly gets screwed and still manages to punch out new games suggests that even if they get the short end of the stick they are still good enough to make games that people want.

Because, let's be honest here, the majority of Obsidian games have had a kernel of awesome at its' core. What is problematic with their games has always been the apparent unfinished state of the games at launch, including sections with obviously cut content and loads of bugs, not the actual story or gameplay itself. Considering that their two most high-profile releases so far (KotOR2 and FO:NV) both had a development cycle of less then two years (13 and 18 months respectively) that's something you have to expect.

 

[veloper]

Well, in the cases of Kotor2, NWN2 and Fallout New Vegas I have to give the devs some credit.
Obsidian were handed turds in the form of NWN, Kotor and FO3 to work with and they created half decent games out of those crappy originals. That has to count for something.

Alpha Protocol is the real disappointment here. This game could have been GOTY material if the combat and stealth and AI didn't suck so much. Then there's those shitty minigames, especially the hacking parts.
Contrary to popular myth, I never encountered any actual bugs in AP during my playthrough.
So AP has the common CRPG flaw: shitty combat. Only for a shooter, people are going to demand some actual standards, because the FPS been done well so many times before.

Project eternity will prove what Obsidian is really worth as a CRPG developer.

 

[AntiChri5]

But they always seem to need that foundation of other peoples work to build on.

But what's wrong with that? Most games use an outside engine, I mean almost all modern fps games are based on the work of John Carmack.

There is a world of difference between using someone elses engine and using someone else's game.

 

[Traun]

So they're better at Game Design than they are at Software Engineering, basically.

Obsidian suck at Game Design. So far all of their games are copy-pasted gameplay from Bioware, infinity-engine games were EXACTLY infinity engine games, top-down, combat-focused, with gameplay that was unsuitable for what they were trying to achieve.No need to give KOTORII or F:NV as examples(although it's understandable in those cases) Later on Alpha Protocol had the copy/pasted gameplay of ME (except you didn't have party members). No one wants them, or expects them, to make a revolution in Ray Tracing, but they should at least try and make their games NOT feel like someone else's games.

Obsidian do not make their own gameplay, they just write stories. Admittedly, their stories are good for the video game market.

Thing is, if you get fucked by the publisher every time you have to ask yourself what you are doing wrong. Executive meddling does happen, but with this frequency?

You are conveniently forgetting about alpha protocol. Sega gave them all the time in the world to perfect that game.

Even if that wasn't the case "It's the publisher's fault!" is lame excuse. Yes, publishers are d*cks, but every other studio is working with them, with the limitations they provide and somehow they deliver. I can buy that you got screwed once, twice, but EVERY TIME? Give me a break, you're jsut horrible at your job.


As for the topic - No. Obsidian are not overrated, they're a failing company that's hanging by a lifethread.

And with Project Eternity the "publisher" issue isn't dealt with. At the end of the day Obsidian would still be hard-pressed by time, they have a limited budget and they have to be done before the money ran out. I expect when the game is released to be suffering from the same issues every Obsidian game has suffered - cut content and bugs.

 

[veloper]

Later on Alpha Protocol had the copy/pasted gameplay of ME (except you didn't have party members).

Ha, "they copied Mass Effect, only it's completely different!"

AP tried to be a variant on Deus Ex, not ME. There's many similarities with Dx, from the slow targeting reticule to the skillsets. Not so much with ME.

So AP didn't have original gameplay(if you know your games), but what shooter post ty 2000 really does? Shitty controls and dumb AI/level design really did it in for AP.

 

[spartandude]

i love them, theyve made some of my favourate games, they also have some of the best writing and are willing to do old school titles

in terms of bugs though, well i havnt really encountered that much really, if im honest apart from one time in New Vegas where a guy clipped through the chair ive yet to encounter any bugs in the obsidian games ive played

 

[Kellogs Fried Chickn]

I've yet to see anyone praise Obsidian for their technical achievements but their way of handling the story and the quality of writing has constantly been somewhere at the top of what the industry produces. That is why some people like them.

I agree with they should not receive universal praise, but this is largely retroactive as they appear to have been complacent with their situation.

 

[Olikar]

Obsidian do not make their own gameplay, they just write stories. Admittedly, their stories are good for the video game market.

Your joking right? name one existing game company that makes RPGs that has better gameplay than Obisidan, hell name one that has even equal gameplay to Obsidian games.

 

[SajuukKhar]

You are conveniently forgetting about alpha protocol. Sega gave them all the time in the world to perfect that game. They delayed release like 7 times, and it was a pile of mediocre, boring shit. People just dont want to admit that a developer who developed some sterling examples of fantastic crpgs back in the day have simply lost it. And as for their "improved sequels", give me a fuckin break. NWN2 is a pile of dog shit, and Kotor 2 is just simply not as engrossing as the original in any way. Sure, sure, its an opinion. Sure.

This, so many times this.

Every time I hear the "its the publisher's fault" BS excuse for Obsidian it makes me cringe.

The only commonality between Obsidian games is that they are buggy, have terribly broken game mechanics, and Obsidian made them, and thus the only people who are to blame for OBsidian's game being bad.... is Obsidian themselves.

Saying anything else is just trying to make excuses for a game developers inept staff.

 

[Meatspinner]

"Why people give Obsidian a much to little credit" is what you should be asking

They are one of the few companies that take risks and try anything new or interesting.

As for the bugs, they are on par with Bethesda that for some reason get a pass :/

 

[Duffeknol]

How was Alpha Protocol not great? The gameplay kinda blew but it was role playing done to the max. Every single damn decision I made in that game had some sort of impact, no matter how small.

 

[DoPo]

Sheesh, people, learn to use "overrated" responsibly, will you?

A: Built on a pre-built engine where a good amount of the work is done for them (KOTOR, NWN2, basically anything they're famous for)

Which, I have no idea why you bring up, since I don't think people give them credit for the actual engine they use. Do you mean to say that people like Obsidian because of a mistaken belief that they made those games from scratch themselves? Or are you saying that people like the games and stories, but should like them less, since Obsidian didn't make them from scratch? Either of these is quite stupid, if you ask me.

B: Not all that great (Alpha Protocol, Dungeon Siege 3)

So you don't like some games, or heck, maybe the games aren't as goo (haven't played either) yet that devalues the rest of Obsidian as a whole?

Obsidian is very overrated.

And you, my friend...mind explaining what the fuck overrated you think means? See, I take it as "given too much credit" or "liked too much" as in beyond what is reasonable or acceptable. And you seem to mean...something completely different.

1. They never make their own freaking IP (Project Eternity will be the first, Alpha Protocal doesn't count considering how much of a total flop it was)

So-o-o, at what point do people give them credit for being original, rather than making games people like? I've yet to see somebody solely go "Oh my god, I liked game X so much because the series didn't exist before!" rather than like a game for the game itself. If somebody should be overrated based on IP, then BioWare and DA:O (well, anything aside from Mass Effect and Jade Empire, actually) are a good example. It's a brand new IP, yes, but it's playing by so many old tropes that it feels like I'm seeing the universe for the bazillionth time. Yet people like the game, so I cannot say it's undeserved or anything. It only matters if original IPs are a requirement to like something. They aren't, so it doesn't.

2. Their games are either buggy messes or down right unplayable.

Again, when did people give them credit for technical achievements? No, people don't give them too much credit there, because they don't give them credit for that. Obsidian titles are notoriously buggy, I doubt anyone can say the opposite. But, hey, so are Bethesda titles - I've yet to see anybody going "hurrr, Bethesda gets too much love, durr, and their games, like, crash and are buggy and stuff". For some reason I see this more often aimed at Obisian for some reason - the claim that because a game is buggy, people who like it are somehow wrong for doing so. "I liked game X" "Yeah, but it was buggy on release!" so is the proper response "Oh gods, I'm sorry, I'll go repent and never like the game again"?

3. My opinion of course but their sequels to the other developer's predecessors are always inferior (KOTOR, NW, Fallout 3, etc.)

"I think the previous games are better, hence whoever likes the newer ones is wrong"
Hey, good to know, thanks for sharing with us.

4. Their writing for the most part range from best case scenario decent and worse case very subpar.

While that may or may not be true (won't judge either way) - compared to the other games out there, it's downright brilliant. Certainly above the average quality of game writing.

 

[SajuukKhar]

snip

Occam's razor - among competing hypotheses, the one that makes the fewest assumptions should be selected.

Either
1. Every single publisher Obsidian has ever had EVER is incompetent.
2. Obsidian is incompetent.

Given that the instances were Obsidian did have all the time they wanted, i.e. Alpha Protocol, still resulted in a buggy, poorly thought-out, unplayable, mess, the answer is obvious, it's Obsidian's fault.

 

[Ryank1908]

Obsidian is fantastic at making a better version of other peoples games. NWN2 was better then NWN, Kotor 2 was better then Kotor and New Vegas was better then Fallout 3. But they always seem to need that foundation of other peoples work to build on.

Please don't tell me you actually think NWN2 is better than the first. NWN 2 is one of the worst sequels to a game I've ever played. A series isn't meant to get worse as it goes. KOTOR 2 moves forward in some ways, but in a lot of ways, completely fails to live up to the bar set by the first game.

The only game I'll give Obsidian doing a good job at recently is New Vegas. It was a great game, but let's be honest - it was barely different the Fallout 3, so how much credit can you actually give them for that?

I really want to like them. I do. The old Black Isle is one of my favourite devs of all time, in my favourite era of gaming, but Obsidian have done nothing in recent years that actually makes them stand out as anything except for a developer of heavily flawed sequels.

 

[SajuukKhar]

snip

And yet, even with similarly short timespans, other game companies are able to produce vastly more well put-together games in a year/year and a half's time.

So again, the brokenness of Obsidian's games begs the question, if other game companies can do it well, why can't Obsidian?