why some of you hate anime?

[Gxas]

I used to be into anime. I guess I just grew out of it. Maybe it was because I didn't like the kids at my school who got into it after I did. either way, Dragonball and Dragonball Z will always have a special place in my heart. As will Neon-genesis Evangelion.

Miyazaki is brilliant, but I just can't classify it as anime.

 

[GloatingSwine]

Wait, you're comparing anime, in its schoolgirl fetishizing, annoyingly terrible voice-acting, repetitive-animating glory, to one of the best modernist Western novels ever written? I don't say this often, but FAIL. The only anime that I've liked was the Studio Ghibli stuff, and even that doesn't come close to Vonnegut-level brilliance.

I am pointing out that Slaughterhouse V cannot be described under the facile set of conditions whatsisface posted for being able to describe a "great story". (the trafalmadoran zoo would violate the "acid-trip porn" clause).

Or were you too busy coming up with sweeping generalisations to bother actually reading my post? Your puffed up indignance at my comparison is not helped by this basic literacy failure.

 

[Amnestic]

I hate anime because it made me look like a nerd. The other day in Japanese class we were reading a passage and came across the word "pantsu" and the professor asked if anyone knew what it meant. I raised my hand and said "yes, it means panties." The professor responded "that's right, how did you know that?" Then I had to explain that I had learned the word from an anime about a man who falls in love with a robot. Needless to say that was a pretty humbling moment in my life.

Chobits by any chance? I just remember the dude going pantsupantsupantsupantsupantsupantsupantsu. I find most anime characters irritating, and most storylines either too similar, too serious, or just way too abstract.

I'm interested as to why the Japanese professor/teacher would ask the class if they knew the word Panties in Japanese. Sounds like he was intentionally trying to embarass them ;o

Quite liked Chobits. It wasn't particularly deep at times and it had a hell of a lot of fanservice, but it was cute, funny at times and romantically satisfying at the end of it.

 

[GloatingSwine]

I don't like most anime because of the plot holes (usually patched with some awesome magic powers), unlikeable characters and the overall pretetiousness. Or like someone said before - anime is just over the top.

Again, a set of massive sweeping generalisations which are almost certainly valid for some anime (though the one about "unlikable characters" is always going to be highly personal, so you shouldn't offer it as objective criticism unless you're really sure that the character is universally unlikable), but are not valid as criticisms of all anime. But then, you haven't seen all anime, have you? In fact, you say you've only seen one movie, and base your judgements of an entire medium on that.

Are all live action movies bad because Signs was a pile of shit?

Also, on "immaturity", it's worth considering the following quote from Lewis Caroll:

?Critics who treat "adult" as a term of approval, instead of as a merely descriptive term, cannot be adults themselves. To be concerned about being grown up, to admire the grown up because it is grown up, to blush at the suspicion of being childish; these things are the marks of childhood and adolescence....When I was ten, I read fairytales in secret and would have been ashamed if I had been found doing so. Now that I am fifty I read them openly. When I became a man, I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up."

 

[AuntyEthel]

Quite liked Chobits. It wasn't particularly deep at times and it had a hell of a lot of fanservice, but it was cute, funny at times and romantically satisfying at the end of it.

Yeah, but it was kinda weird that at around episode 13, when it had been funny/cute all the way through, it suddenly became this super-serious, steeped in philosophy thing, which I thought didn't really suit the earlier tone. The episode with the DVD player and the main dude and his boss hiding the porn was way fucking funny!

 

[Drednought1]

I know that most people who have responded to this thread have been defending anime, and I would too as its an awesome art form in its own right. But i think that everyone would have to admit that to people who are unfamiliar with anime and whos first impressions of it are "oh, its just another cartoon" are going to miss the point of anime completely and are kind of lost causes in ever accepting that it could be good.

In part I blame the immeasurable impact that childrens shows like Pokemon and Yu-Gi-Oh have had on the western view of anime. In my own opinion it is these shows which are partly to blame for people "hating" anime. Its like when someone asks you if you still watch childrens cartoons, but your too worried about their reaction to say that you do so you put on the mask that makes you hate it because it is "childish". (Forgive the poor example)

But in all fairness, the adult side of anime (No, im not talking about the pornographic kind) is rarely, if ever realeased outside of japan and is therefore not able to balance out this sullied view of anime that people hold.

(Feel free to pick apart my views as you will, im sure someone will)

 

[Technomage333]

One reason I haven't seen mentioned but can really kinda bug me: the animation is sometimes cheap. I'm not saying all or even most but a lot of the time there is too much panning, too many flashbacks, and too much stillness. Sure it takes a long time to draw the stuff but sometimes it just feels like they're trying to cut corners instead of making the anime flow properly.

 

[GloatingSwine]

But in all fairness, the adult side of anime (No, im not talking about the pornographic kind) is rarely, if ever realeased outside of japan and is therefore not able to balance out this sullied view of anime that people hold.

It's not that it doesn't get released (sure, there's less of it, but not to the point that it's mega-rare), but that what does get released doesn't get on television.

Also, it's easy to buy up "New Shonen Hit A" and expect it to go on raking money in forever. Popular shonen shows (and the manga they are usually based on) are basically released on the same kind of indefinite churn as soap operas, only stopping when they stop making money. (They're also highly repetitive, because they're aimed at an 8-13 year old audience, so the audience is all completely new every five years and haven't seen this plot before when it was done by the last shonen hit, and the tastes of 8-13 year old boys don't vary much internationally, cultural differences be damned.)

Of course, there are some demographics that really do never make it outside of Japan. I'd be hard pressed to name two Josei shows that have made it internationally (Josei is the 18+ female demographic).

 

[-Seraph-]

I don't mind anime much really. I tend to get opinions from friends and other trust worthy sources as I do when I watch any show, movie or play any game. I do some research into the general premise and sometimes I just dive right in because I'm bored and am just surfing through the anime section of surfthechannel. Just like everything else in life, it's just a matter of taste and what you want out of your entertainment.

I have seen my fair share of crap to make me quit watching it in general, but then I stumble upon a good one that mends the mind raping scars of the terrible ones. I seldom watch it, but when i do most of the time I come out satisfied that I was able to watch something entertaining for once. I often find that the shorter animes tend to be the better ones as they have less episodes, so hence forth more detail and effort goes into them...most of the time. The longer stretched out ones like that shit we get over here in NA like naruto and bleach grow stagnant and are full of more filler than one sane human being can take. Or they dont have anyhting good to offer in the first place.

I rarely have ever met any rabid fan person...but then again I have never been to anime north or conversions like that, but I can see why some people can dislike anime. Fans can spoil people and give you the wrong perception when going in, that's why i normally remain oblivious to everything so i don't get the wrong impression.

It's just another form of media with it's fair share of crap and gold, just like games, movies, books, and TV. I am pretty sure for everyone who says they hate anime, they have yet to find that one show that they will enjoy. Sometimes it takes hours of torture before you can find that shining gem you have been looking for.

 

[Ultrajoe]

The fans.

Im sorry if all i like in terms of Anime was 'Ghost in the Shell', it was on cartoon network and it was damned good. There's no need to tell me i'm an uneducated heathen. Freaking bastards, ill give them bloody anime! I'll give 'em eyes almost as big as those freakish moon orbs their beloved characters endure!

*Grumbles*

 

[broadband]

One reason I haven't seen mentioned but can really kinda bug me: the animation is sometimes cheap. I'm not saying all or even most but a lot of the time there is too much panning, too many flashbacks, and too much stillness. Sure it takes a long time to draw the stuff but sometimes it just feels like they're trying to cut corners instead of making the anime flow properly.

i remember have read somewhere that its a way to win time specially for the manga based animes, trying to turn a 15 minutes manga into a half hour chapter and that.

 

[alwaysrockon]

my avitar is there because more of an inside joke between us. but serously most anime is well, unpleasant, to say the least.

 

[GloatingSwine]

One reason I haven't seen mentioned but can really kinda bug me: the animation is sometimes cheap. I'm not saying all or even most but a lot of the time there is too much panning, too many flashbacks, and too much stillness. Sure it takes a long time to draw the stuff but sometimes it just feels like they're trying to cut corners instead of making the anime flow properly.

i remember have read somewhere that its a way to win time specially for the manga based animes, trying to turn a 15 minutes manga into a half hour chapter and that.

Mostly it's to save money. Animation budgets for TV anime are not high. That's why there's a lot of emphasis on the voice performances (another reason why dubs tend to fall flat compared to US TV animation voice acting, because they're done on the cheap). Anime voice actors get the same kind of treatment on Japanese TV that normal TV actors do, doing the chat show tours to promote their latest anime and releasing singles based on it and stuff.

 

[mark_n_b]

A lot of the "hate" that gets focused toward anime is a direct response to the fan culture which is conveniently ignorant / racist and unresponsive to varying points of view. It extends back to the defining medium of the fan culture.

example:

-90% of the anime they make is NOT made with you in its target range. Anime is actually a far greater industry in Japan and is actually how western animation should be (other than better drawn) as well as TV.

Stating the inaccurate as a means of making your point.

In fact the cartooning industry in Japan finds its primary demographic in the 10-15 year old male range.

As for the quality content, excusing comments on stuff being "better drawn" as a purely subjective opinion, Western cartoons tend to be of a higher quality and represent a larger investment than their Japanese counterparts, this is because of the more sophisticated beliefs of the western animation industry over the Japanese quick and cheap philosophy.

As for diversity in markets, compare Caillou to Transformers to The Emporers New School, to Kim Possible, to Family Guy, to Bratz.

-People hate the artstyle.

This is an example of a blanket statement that is symptomatic of the problem at hand. In anime discussions I will note that a lot of people I have spoken with who "hate" anime are simply not fond of cartoons in general or because they are not exposed to it have little knowledge of the style. This isn't hate, this is the same reason they haven't checked out a Dahli exhibit or goto Shakespeare in the Park.

-Japanese animes when you get them subbed tend to add a lot of subtle japanese cultural references only someone FROM Japan would actually get, hence why you have to see an explanation on the top of the screen or a little side-note in between the manga panels.

Anime is a poor instructor of cultural facts. This bothers a lot of people. Example: Most of the people I know who have actually learned Japanese do not in fact watch anime, most of the people I know who have dropped out of Japanese have. The fantasy is always better than reality, there's nothing wrong with liking it, but it is a fantasy, not admitting that makes it difficult to earn respect for the sub-culture.

-Considering Japan, the capital of Sexual Deviancy ... probalby not even in Europe.

Remember the racist / ignorant point I made earlier?

-If you put a show or game meant for children in which Big Breasted Bimbo's boobs jiggle like jello or a little boy flies into the main character's room stark naked while a recurring character sings "Breasts to pluck"...it's gonna get canned faster than you can say "Zatch Bell".

Zatch Bell got a full run, I'm guessing you didn't watch it. You also seem unfamiliar with South American youth programming.

If actual anime fans would bother to educate themselves about anime, maybe all the haters would bother to give 'em the time of day.

 

[fedpayne]

I don't hate anime, but I definitely a long way from liking it. I really appreciate some of the art style and think it's beautiful, but, and I don't know if it's a cultural thing, I don't really like the dialogue. The kind of heavy-handed soliliquising and dramatic monologues. I will be the first to admit I have not seen a great deal. My friend has showed me the first few Hellsings, some Afro Samurai. Another thing bothers me - not alot seems to happen in each one. Like has been said, it moves quite slowly, animation wise, and doesn't have a great deal of movement, but I think overuse of dialogue sometimes seems to try and make up for it, and in my book, fail. I know I haven't seen alot, but if I don't like what I've seen, and people who do like it also like the other stuff which they say is good, chances are I won't like that, either. It's not neccesarily that it's too slow paced for me, just that it's too slow paced for an action show. Films are better, they move along alot faster. Like Spirited Away and Princess Mononoke. But somehow I consider those seperate from what I regard as 'anime'. Anyway. Enjoy, team.

 

[GloatingSwine]

In fact the cartooning industry in Japan finds its primary demographic in the 10-15 year old male range.

Dominant demographics are muddied a little by the fact that different distribution media have different dominant demographics. The 8-15 year old male demographic is the one that spends proportionally more of it's free time watching television than any other, so more anime made for TV is aimed at them. The 18-30 demographic, however, buys more DVDs, so quite a lot of anime made for that demographic is released as OAVs or put on TV to advertise and then released on DVD to make it's actual sales push. (You see the effects of that in, for example, Amazon Japan's blu-ray sales chart, which had something like seven anime discs in it's top ten for last month).

As for the quality content, excusing comments on stuff being "better drawn" as a purely subjective opinion, Western cartoons tend to be of a higher quality and represent a larger investment than their Japanese counterparts, this is because of the more sophisticated beliefs of the western animation industry over the Japanese quick and cheap philosophy.

It's not just philosophy, good old capitalism has a say in this as well. American TV has a much larger potential audience, and a much higher potential return on investment, so the investments tend to be larger.

Shonen shows have a punishing release schedule as well, as there are no season breaks, and no sweeps to hold episodes back for, they release every week without fail, there is no way for the animators and writers to get significant lead time on the air date. Time and budget saving techniques in animation are a necessity, not just a philosophy.

Same reason you get a lot of talking (and the reason voice acting is bigger there), because a voice actor isn't being paid by the word, and recording takes proportionally much less time, you make sure you get your money's worth out of them.

 

[Saleck]

Well, I spent an hour writing a 2 page word document page response for this topic but at the last minute I decided not to post it mainly because a) I've heard it's rather easy to get banned here and b) I'm guessing that about everyone who reads it would be 'easily offended' because if you like anime.. the world tends to collapse when someone with a different opinion comes along and says "I don't like it" and puts across their opinions.

So, I'll sum it up by saying I am in no way a fan of this 'Inexplicably popular medium'. If you are a fan.. go away and like it and keep it to yourself.. but the day you or anybody starts forcing it down my throat and expecting me to like it.. you won't like what I have to say to you, person to person.