why some of you hate anime?
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Oooh i just remembered another anime I liked, i think it was called "Wolf Rain" or something, i really liked the art style and the story line was good as well, if not a little strange. I'd love to watch it again if anyone knows of somewhere that I can stream it?
Your dislike of much or most anime is not the issue, the issue is the quality of argument you use to express that dislike (hasty generalisations, simple minded insults, etc).FunkySpider post=18.74083.824560 said:
Quite frankly, I'd be arguing with you about whether the sky was blue if you were using such poor arguments.
I love quite a few series, the setting and plot can be truly spectacular, sometimes. However, i do despise the fan base, the 'weeabos' and general teenage girls who seem to attempt to emulate their favourite characters. Also by using 'kawaii ne' or similar. It's not ironic, nor is it clever. I can speak conversational Japanese, but that doesn't make me drop into it at every opportunity.
Hi, im new on the forum and i would like to say i enjoy reading this discussion because the people here actually seem like rational human beings, contrary to the popular culture of forum tards.
I myself like anime for the most part, simply because i like it more then the average American cartoon except ofcourse The Simpson's, Family Guy and comparable series.
Ofcourse there are plenty of reasons not to like anime, but for me they are comparable to western cartoons.
1. Voice acting, while in anime voice acting is often over the top, in some cartoons it feels stiff, which are ironically exact opposites of one another.
2. Animation, anime often has the typical big eyed, big breasted look and sometimes over the top hairstyling, while some American cartoons look downright retarded and a bit over the top as well. Like Ren and Stimpy, or your typical comic book cartoon.
3. Story, both anime and cartoons come with their own set of cliches. Both of these categories are usually victim of the awkward love cliche.
Anime tend to have screaming kids who dont look their age save the world, while cartoons always seem to go for the typical "tough guy" heroism.
4. As for choosing between opening and ending themes between the 2 im really undecided, sometimes i like the actual music that accompanies anime themes, but sometimes those themes specifically made for cartoons seems so much more genuine.
To complete my statement i gotta say i love both cartoons and anime and that its actually funny that to a Japanese person the word "anime" means both anime and western cartoons.
Also that people can think what they want about either as long as they state their point as to why they think so, which this forums seems to set a good example for.
I myself like anime for the most part, simply because i like it more then the average American cartoon except ofcourse The Simpson's, Family Guy and comparable series.
Ofcourse there are plenty of reasons not to like anime, but for me they are comparable to western cartoons.
1. Voice acting, while in anime voice acting is often over the top, in some cartoons it feels stiff, which are ironically exact opposites of one another.
2. Animation, anime often has the typical big eyed, big breasted look and sometimes over the top hairstyling, while some American cartoons look downright retarded and a bit over the top as well. Like Ren and Stimpy, or your typical comic book cartoon.
3. Story, both anime and cartoons come with their own set of cliches. Both of these categories are usually victim of the awkward love cliche.
Anime tend to have screaming kids who dont look their age save the world, while cartoons always seem to go for the typical "tough guy" heroism.
4. As for choosing between opening and ending themes between the 2 im really undecided, sometimes i like the actual music that accompanies anime themes, but sometimes those themes specifically made for cartoons seems so much more genuine.
To complete my statement i gotta say i love both cartoons and anime and that its actually funny that to a Japanese person the word "anime" means both anime and western cartoons.
Also that people can think what they want about either as long as they state their point as to why they think so, which this forums seems to set a good example for.
Okay, here goes:
1) The graphics are very poor, the fact that it's drawn. The shadows are just a bit darkened colors.
2) The animation usually is poor. They don't do fights good, only show them in one position, and then the background is moving, and somebody says "Ooh!". And the characters, when they're walking, they still walk awkwardly. Also, they have a little amount of facial expressions.
3) Most of it is made by Japanese people. Either extremely bloody, or extremely sexual. And what makes anime pathetic is that Japanese people put huge penises, tits etc things to people, because in reality, Japanese people lack in the size of both of those.
4) Animes usually lack in story, or either have cliche stories.
Well, my main problem with animes is that the characters are over-sexualized (what makes Japanese people pathetic, in my eyes) and the animation and drawings are not good.
While I do understand some people like anime more than real-life, I prefer a good film, with good special effects, that moves better, has better special effects, and people don't walk like they have Balrog stuck between their cheeks. With Gandalf. Yeah.
1) The graphics are very poor, the fact that it's drawn. The shadows are just a bit darkened colors.
2) The animation usually is poor. They don't do fights good, only show them in one position, and then the background is moving, and somebody says "Ooh!". And the characters, when they're walking, they still walk awkwardly. Also, they have a little amount of facial expressions.
3) Most of it is made by Japanese people. Either extremely bloody, or extremely sexual. And what makes anime pathetic is that Japanese people put huge penises, tits etc things to people, because in reality, Japanese people lack in the size of both of those.
4) Animes usually lack in story, or either have cliche stories.
Well, my main problem with animes is that the characters are over-sexualized (what makes Japanese people pathetic, in my eyes) and the animation and drawings are not good.
While I do understand some people like anime more than real-life, I prefer a good film, with good special effects, that moves better, has better special effects, and people don't walk like they have Balrog stuck between their cheeks. With Gandalf. Yeah.
Simple minded insults? You're the one who called me childish! As for rash generalisations i think you'll find the majority of anime IS aimed at children! (expects with glee a blow by blow account of everything that you've disagreed with that i have said)
People are going to dislike stuff for reasons that you think are stupid, thats a fact of life, like it or lump it. If this is how you react everytime someone disagrees with you then no wonder you have 894 posts! You cannot control people's minds just close your eyes and cast your mind into that special place, you know where you are leader of all you survey, we're all forced to wear japanese school uniforms and march around brandishing banner with anime characters on them while your thought police weed out all those who may not like the particular anime series we forced to watch on telescreens we can't turn off. Just says to yourself "Not now but soon..." and take a deep breath, you feel better for it and maybe give everyone else a break before the coming revolution.
For the rest of you on this thread who have posted around this argument which yeah i will agree has turned into something of a flame war I am sorry I sturred the beast and boy was he angry.
To GloatingSwine, yeah you could carry this on but i'm not the only one who looks stupid and beside you know what they say about winning arguements on the net and entering the special olympics? Chill out go watch some anime. I can't and wouldn't ever stop you from watching something you enjoy. even if i hate most of it.
People are going to dislike stuff for reasons that you think are stupid, thats a fact of life, like it or lump it. If this is how you react everytime someone disagrees with you then no wonder you have 894 posts! You cannot control people's minds just close your eyes and cast your mind into that special place, you know where you are leader of all you survey, we're all forced to wear japanese school uniforms and march around brandishing banner with anime characters on them while your thought police weed out all those who may not like the particular anime series we forced to watch on telescreens we can't turn off. Just says to yourself "Not now but soon..." and take a deep breath, you feel better for it and maybe give everyone else a break before the coming revolution.
For the rest of you on this thread who have posted around this argument which yeah i will agree has turned into something of a flame war I am sorry I sturred the beast and boy was he angry.
To GloatingSwine, yeah you could carry this on but i'm not the only one who looks stupid and beside you know what they say about winning arguements on the net and entering the special olympics? Chill out go watch some anime. I can't and wouldn't ever stop you from watching something you enjoy. even if i hate most of it.
Because I aim to be an elitist bastard and we have to hate something. 
/jk
Seriously I just don't watch it for the same reason I don't watch porn. It seems somewhat below me.
/jkSeriously I just don't watch it for the same reason I don't watch porn. It seems somewhat below me.
Ah, I remember Anime I went through a phase one when I was 13 teen and incredibly boring. I watched this one show called Full metal Alchemist and thought it was amazing. The plot was incredibly original and the characters were in fact really interesting and you actually cared about them. Then I thought hew this was good maybe there are some other shows I'd like too. Three months later and even more boring than I was before. I finally realized that EVERY THING ELSE WAS SHIT. And the anime I liked happened to be the best freaking show in Anime, by most peoples opinion. To this day it's one of like 3 anime I actually liked.
Reasons why I learned to hate anime
1. English voice acting usually sucks and they have like 5 people that voice the characters in like every show I can think of.
2. Character stereo types. I quickly came to learn that there are like 4 male stereo types in anime and like 5 female. And they have these same stereo types for like every anime I can think of.
3. The creators for some reason find the need to include some awkward romance into the mix that just ruin it for me.
4. Female character that have no other purpose to the story other than for you to stare at jugs that were bigger than their face.
5. Boring stories when ever the "plot twists" you can see coming a mile away and usualy fallow the same cliches.
Reasons why I learned to hate anime
1. English voice acting usually sucks and they have like 5 people that voice the characters in like every show I can think of.
2. Character stereo types. I quickly came to learn that there are like 4 male stereo types in anime and like 5 female. And they have these same stereo types for like every anime I can think of.
3. The creators for some reason find the need to include some awkward romance into the mix that just ruin it for me.
4. Female character that have no other purpose to the story other than for you to stare at jugs that were bigger than their face.
5. Boring stories when ever the "plot twists" you can see coming a mile away and usualy fallow the same cliches.
Lucky Star, incidentally, was made by the same guys who made Haruhi (Which is one of the reasons they actually say her name in the show rather than blanking it out like they do with most anime/game references). If you've not seen it already NC, I recommend it. It's only 13 or so episodes of anime, but it's still really quite entertaining.
*twitches*
YOU'RE. The words are you and are and you contract them together with an apostrophe to form you're.
Dammit people I don't normally grammar nazi but that thing is so simple and so easy to get right.
Mostly Harmless, may we know what were the other two?
I'm more of a manga person now. What can be read in the manga for 5 minutes might take 15 in an anime, probably more.
For the story argument, while I also love deep narratives, most of the time, it's the journey that counts, not the destination (I think I abused the comma there). I wonder why no one mentioned slice-of-life animes outside of Haruhi (this is one series I am yet to watch), though.
Just because some medium is anmated, does not mean it's for kids ONLY. There are a lot more anime that touched my feelings than real-life, "proper" entertainment.
As for recommendations:
Hajime no Ippo - a sports anime that tackles boxing. It shows the life of the titular Makunouchi Ippo as he claws his way up to the world stage, in his quest to become the world's Featherweight Champion. It also needs to be said that the aforementioned World Featherweight Champion is a Mexican who hasn't been beaten once in his 7-year career. Manga is still on-going, 1 complete anime series and 2 movies, I think. New season premieres January 2009 and starts where the anime left off.
Death Note - a note book that kills the person who's name is written on it. That by itself is pretty dull, but the anime is SO much more than that. Just stay the hell away from the live-action Japanese movies.
GTO - Eikichi Onizuka is a legendary biker who suddenly finds direction in his life. He wants to be the world's greatest teacher (though at first, he just wanted to have a 16-year old wife by the time he's 40), hence the title (Great Teacher Onizuka). He becomes the homeroom teacher of the most notorious class in his school. He manages to convert them, one student at a time. His exterior (and seeming ignorance for common decency) hides the fact that he is a sincere man who only does what he thinks is best for everyone. If you can, read the the manga. The anime ending is fake, because it caught up with the manga.
Don't worry about remembering Japanese names, you'll pick them up eventually.
There are probably many more that I can't remember off the top of my head. Just remember that there is no medium of fiction that is immune to tropes (they are different from cliches, tvtropes.org says so). Saying that anime follows a formula for its characters is not entirely true, because you can say the same about other entertainment media.
I'm more of a manga person now. What can be read in the manga for 5 minutes might take 15 in an anime, probably more.
For the story argument, while I also love deep narratives, most of the time, it's the journey that counts, not the destination (I think I abused the comma there). I wonder why no one mentioned slice-of-life animes outside of Haruhi (this is one series I am yet to watch), though.
Just because some medium is anmated, does not mean it's for kids ONLY. There are a lot more anime that touched my feelings than real-life, "proper" entertainment.
As for recommendations:
Hajime no Ippo - a sports anime that tackles boxing. It shows the life of the titular Makunouchi Ippo as he claws his way up to the world stage, in his quest to become the world's Featherweight Champion. It also needs to be said that the aforementioned World Featherweight Champion is a Mexican who hasn't been beaten once in his 7-year career. Manga is still on-going, 1 complete anime series and 2 movies, I think. New season premieres January 2009 and starts where the anime left off.
Death Note - a note book that kills the person who's name is written on it. That by itself is pretty dull, but the anime is SO much more than that. Just stay the hell away from the live-action Japanese movies.
Where else can you find the mastermind induce amnesia on himself to clear his name, only to recover his memories later and execute his plans?
GTO - Eikichi Onizuka is a legendary biker who suddenly finds direction in his life. He wants to be the world's greatest teacher (though at first, he just wanted to have a 16-year old wife by the time he's 40), hence the title (Great Teacher Onizuka). He becomes the homeroom teacher of the most notorious class in his school. He manages to convert them, one student at a time. His exterior (and seeming ignorance for common decency) hides the fact that he is a sincere man who only does what he thinks is best for everyone. If you can, read the the manga. The anime ending is fake, because it caught up with the manga.
Don't worry about remembering Japanese names, you'll pick them up eventually.
There are probably many more that I can't remember off the top of my head. Just remember that there is no medium of fiction that is immune to tropes (they are different from cliches, tvtropes.org says so). Saying that anime follows a formula for its characters is not entirely true, because you can say the same about other entertainment media.
consider myself corrected, i normally try to be good about that kind of thing but i was at work and posting when my boss wasn't moaning to us about how much paper work she has.
I don't hate anime as a genre, just most of the products of that genre. Some of them are very interesting, with good story, characters, and well done presentation, but most are stuffy and boring and use only characters I couldn't care about even if they paid me. So that's what annoys me about the genre is if you blindly search through it, you have to slog through mountains of shit to find the lonely diamonds buried in there somewhere. Not that American TV is any different really, but no one cares if I hate that so long as I still pretend that I watch football.
What boggles my mind in these discussions is that anime is more accuarately defined as a medium, rather than a genre. Most of the complaints I have seen are more a criticism of content and genre and not the medium itself.
To say that anime lacks variety in it's English voice work is a critique of the medium. To say that an anime has weak characters or cliches is a critique of genre. There are several genres of anime that are flooded (television serials, romantic comedies, giant robot) to the point that they are navigable only by the most astute otaku. For the rest of us, it's simply not worth the time.
But regardless of the medium, there are some works that are certainly transcendent enough to be worth anyone's time. I have a hard time not recommending "Spirited Away" or really any Miyazaki film to the non anime-loving public and perhaps his greatest accomplishment is adapting the Disney ethics and production values to his own storytelling. Likewise, it's hard for a film student not to be intrigued by the Hitchcock synthesis of Satoshi Kon's "Perfect Blue". Anime as a medium has plenty of merit. The only thing holding it back is the marketting that puts animated content in front of it's proper audiences.
To say that anime lacks variety in it's English voice work is a critique of the medium. To say that an anime has weak characters or cliches is a critique of genre. There are several genres of anime that are flooded (television serials, romantic comedies, giant robot) to the point that they are navigable only by the most astute otaku. For the rest of us, it's simply not worth the time.
But regardless of the medium, there are some works that are certainly transcendent enough to be worth anyone's time. I have a hard time not recommending "Spirited Away" or really any Miyazaki film to the non anime-loving public and perhaps his greatest accomplishment is adapting the Disney ethics and production values to his own storytelling. Likewise, it's hard for a film student not to be intrigued by the Hitchcock synthesis of Satoshi Kon's "Perfect Blue". Anime as a medium has plenty of merit. The only thing holding it back is the marketting that puts animated content in front of it's proper audiences.
The problem with anime, for most people, is that it is prone to Sturgeon's Law, just like anything else. However, it is also foreign, so that also hurts its chances against people who prefer things from their own country. Finally, it's everywhere. Pokemon, Naruto, everyone knows what they are. And because it's popular, it sucks. [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ItsPopularNowItSucks]
I'm a little surprised you think that way about it, considering your end statement about TV not been much different. I mean, if you understand that, what, 80-90% of anything is not going to be quality stuff, then why, why single out one form of presentation media for having the very same factor as your reason for not liking it?klakkat post=18.74083.824942 said:
It's baffling, and seems quite a common response if previous posts are any judge.
As for the cartoons for kids crowd. Please shut up. Really:
Cartoons aimed at kids = For kids (durr)
Cartoons in general = Can be aimed at anyone!
I honestly haven't the faintest idea why we want to limit how we have our entertainment. Live action is great and all, but it isn't everything. And the idea that animation is a childish medium is just so damn painful to listen to, and the reason for the dearth of such entertainment in the west beyond the realm of comedy, read South Park, The Simpsons, Monkey Dust etc.
Back to anime. I wonder, does it ever occur to anyone, that without, the big eyes, cultural tics, standardised tropes etc. that huh, it would then cease to be anime, so what...taking into account that a lot, if not most is made for Japanese audiences anyway, are you honestly expecting to homogenise it all to fit your own western standard of how it -should- look?
A thought aswell, as I mentioned above, Western animation where the audience is primarily adult is far a few between, except the comedies. I wonder if it's a little jealousy on the part of some, in the vein of thinking: 'We don't get any serious animation that is for us adults! Wah, anime sucks!' Jokingly of course