Why Straight White Guys Shouldn't Always Play Games As Themselves

[Imp_Emissary]

Also, don't worry about it. You're only human. ;D
P.S. Post 72 on this page. You may want to write more so you don't get a low content warning.

Meep? That's a thing? I've always tried to shorten, to be honest ... if I end up with a page-sized post I think I've failed.

Edit: OIC. Sorted (I think). Thanks!

Oh and nothing compares to flare in ME3! ;p

Weeeeeeell, part of it is funnzies. Energy Drain was what I was running with for the longest time, but ... seemed kinda OP.
I've not done the multi-player, because EA was pushing it, and I was on an EA hate tear at the time.

Yeah it's one of the rules in the Escapist Code of Conduct. It's mostly there to keep people from just posting videos/pictures with no words in the posts, or just posting "LOL" "Lame" "Fake" ect. You can look up the rest by using the site's search. Mostly basic stuff, but a few things were changed recently.

As for ME. I just like the adepts and flare is fun. Using only the pistol makes it recharge pretty fast and it works kind of like a giant warp doing a good amount of damage to enemies in range of the explosion. Taking out most grunts in one shot.

 

[Vault101]

Friend of mine once pointed out that there's a spectrum: Community on one end, Diversity on the other.

Community ain't all that bad either.

I run into someone at work, we both have service time, we bond. Doesn't matter color, creed, gender, or sexual preference. Dunno, maybe I'm atypical, but that's my experience.

We spend all this energy on 'zomg! appreciate the differences!'

People should focus more on how we're *alike* rather than how we're *different*.

Would make a better world.

you know...I'm really effing sick of this

I mean I'm really sick of the fact that those who will automatically jump on the hippie dippy love [i/]"lets all sing kumbya around the campfire of equlity"[/i] tract are always the in *that* particular group

they don't want to actually hear anything that will in some way (in their heads) cast them as bad/the villan in the grand play of life...they don't want to hear any of it...they'll fucking bend over backwards to convince those silly *other* group that "nuh uh...see you silly confused *other* person...the fact is straight white males are equally laid low by the powers that be, you've just never considered it before...now may I have my progressivness cookie?" because GOD FORBID anybody ackowledge the way things are

There are 2 types of people in this world:

1) Those who role play their characters and couldn't care less about their race, gender, species, sexuality, ect... so long as the character is well written capable of sucking them into its universe.

this would be all nice and dandy if things weren't as skewed as they currently are...

people love to overatate "nah men! we don't care!" but you try and point it out all of a sudden the iron gates of defensivness shut up

 

[Vault101]

Fair enough. But, if we can't come to an accord, all that's left is war.

At some point, the war has to end.
If you say 'unconditional surrender!' the war takes a lot longer than anyone would like.

war?...there is no "war"

my point is its not up to straight white guys to tell the "others* how they sould/shouldn't be feeling or take up the mantle of "equality for everyone" just to dismiss disenting arguments

 

[Vault101]

Gamers have never tended to care what gender or race they played as long as the game itself was good.

This article does a lot of finger pointing and finger waggling at a generalization of an entire race/sexuality combo within a sub-culture and it's rather frustrating because this sort of stuff usually comes out of Kotaku or Cracked, which is why I've been with the Escapist so long.
.

correction..."white straight guys haven't" untill somone suggests things are skewed...then they try really hard to convince us all how little it matters...because what would women/colored people/gays know about playing something that isn't "them"?

 

[Vault101]

Then ... dissent. :/

I didn't object to the OP's title because I agreed with it.
Do I not get to disagree because my skin is white and I identify as male?

you can agree/disagree with whatever you want...I just find they tend to be very disengenious when pulling the "equality for everone" card...just like the "we don't need feminism, just egalitiarianism" bullshit

 

[the December King]

you know...I'm really effing sick of this

I mean I'm really sick of the fact that those who will automatically jump on the hippie dippy love [i/]"lets all sing kumbya around the campfire of equlity"[/i] tract are always the in *that* particular group

they don't want to actually hear anything that will in some way (in their heads) cast them as bad/the villan in the grand play of life...they don't want to hear any of it...they'll fucking bend over backwards to convince those silly *other* group that "nuh uh...see you silly confused *other* person...the fact is straight white males are equally laid low by the powers that be, you've just never considered it before...now may I have my progressivness cookie?" because GOD FORBID anybody ackowledge the way things are

I'm sorry this has ruffled you, Vault101!

I dunno, I can see how some get rather tired of being lumped into a group of people, implied or not, and accused of doing things they don't do. It gets tiring that they are to blame for the misfortunes of others (in gaming, just in gaming) when they might actually agree with them, want change, and concede the point... or at the very least don't enjoy games that necessitate detailed narratives about the protagonists, and commentary on the human condition. Preferring spiders, if they're sexy at all.

On the other hand, I certainly would never say that white males are being treated like a minority, or oppressed, or something, at least in this context. The market appears to predominantly cater to them. And me, on those criteria. I'm the 'White Whale' - Male, caucasian, hetero and overweight. And not proud of any of those things in and of themselves, but proud of myself for who I am as a person.

...

Well, my mom thinks I'm cool.

 

[Something Amyss]

people love to overatate "nah men! we don't care!" but you try and point it out all of a sudden the iron gates of defensivness shut up

I really wish we could get more mainstream titles with gay male protagonists if for no other reason than this one. I want to see if all the "shut up, race/sex/gender identity/sexuality doesn't matter!" folks would buy a game if the character was a big black guy especially in a game where homosexuality is as prevalent as heterosexuality is in most games.

Oh, I'm sure there will be a percentage of the whole who would still play and enjoy the game, but I'm also positive it'll be fairly small compared to the number of claims. Hell, just the rage when a character gets gender or race swapped in media should prove that "we don't care" really means "we don't care as long as they're like us."

 

[balladbird]

an interesting read. I'm all for more diversity in scripted characters. Variety can only enrich the quality gaming narrative.

I do admit to being a pretty unimaginative guy when it comes to role playing with non-scripted characters though. XD Goes back as far as when I played dungeons and dragons regularly. For a decade I've played the game, and even with all those fancy races, with all their strengths and lore, I can count on one hand the characters I've played that weren't boring old humans.

Likewise, when it comes to the WRPG trend of "create your character and play in our sandbox" I typically just go with the straight white male, since typically when I roleplay I just portray myself as I would behave in that situation: a milquetoast but good-natured guy who wants to help the greatest number of people and only resorts to force when all other avenues have proven fruitless. I idealize myself a little bit, but regular old me is always the base of the character. Guess you could say I think outside, but right up next to the box. XD

All that said, if gaming were to decide to do away with all variety except for the straight white guy in character creation, I'd be put out, even though I don't use those options. My personal taste shouldn't be the guideline for how other people have to play, and all.

 

[StriderShinryu]

This article pretty much says what I've been saying for a long time, games with more diversity doesn't just mean making games with female protagonists so that it reduces some invisible "stigma score." Games with more diversity means more interesting and compelling experiences. It means inviting more players to play but also means enriching the experiences for those who already do play.

Having more female/non-white/gay/etc. developers doesn't just mean more "games for girls/non0whites/gays/etc." but also more games for everyone that may not be the same experiences we're already getting (and, no, that doesn't mean the experiences we're already getting are somehow going to magically disappear).

In short, it's not about any sort of agenda. It's about better games and if you, as a gamer, don't want better games then maybe you aren't as much of a gamer as you claim to be.

 

[Nurb]

Gamers have never tended to care what gender or race they played as long as the game itself was good.

This article does a lot of finger pointing and finger waggling at a generalization of an entire race/sexuality combo within a sub-culture and it's rather frustrating because this sort of stuff usually comes out of Kotaku or Cracked, which is why I've been with the Escapist so long.
.

correction..."white straight guys haven't" untill somone suggests things are skewed...then they try really hard to convince us all how little it matters...because what would women/colored people/gays know about playing something that isn't "them"?

And you're assuming I'm straight because I'm saying the gameplay or story has always mattered more to gamers than racial, gender or sexual identities.

people love to overatate "nah men! we don't care!" but you try and point it out all of a sudden the iron gates of defensivness shut up

I really wish we could get more mainstream titles with gay male protagonists if for no other reason than this one. I want to see if all the "shut up, race/sex/gender identity/sexuality doesn't matter!" folks would buy a game if the character was a big black guy especially in a game where homosexuality is as prevalent as heterosexuality is in most games.

Oh, I'm sure there will be a percentage of the whole who would still play and enjoy the game, but I'm also positive it'll be fairly small compared to the number of claims. Hell, just the rage when a character gets gender or race swapped in media should prove that "we don't care" really means "we don't care as long as they're like us."

And there's never been a better time than to get those games made thanks to the indie market and kickstarter so people can do it themselves instead of complaining and demanding other people do the work.

I'm not straight, but I'd rather play as straight character than a gay character that's shoehorned in out of social-justice fueled tokenism or checklisting.... or out of spite like you seem to want to do.

I'd like to see more correctly done gay characters myself, but if it's just to prove a point "to those lying cis-hets", the game will probably be awful and I wouldn't put my money in it.

 

[Skatologist]

Okay, I see a lot of the Walking Dead Season 1 players say they didn't see any of the subtle racial tones or however you would say that. If anybody would like to get an opposing opinion on that issue to better understand it, I'll be here to try and explain to the best of my ability, however, the long comment I was going to make on the issue is gone now and I don't want to have to write every last thing again if I don't have to. Let me just say now, I understand people not necessarily seeing the subtle racism of some of the characters and in all honesty, it isn't that prevalent in the games as to be blatantly obvious, but I can remember a few instances that I saw it.

Off/On Topic: Even if I'm not necessarily a white guy and I am still questioning some aspects of my sexuality and my sexual future, I still felt the article was somewhat talking to me or people like me. As someone who doesn't want to have a defined race and still gets comments like "What are you?" and being called a "mulatto" or "mutt", I don't necessarily feel my story should be told or I should be having someone represented in media, but I am far from against anyone trying to give me a greater understanding on their worldview or experiences or struggles. In fact, I embrace such forms of media as something I want to see more of, especially in an interactive medium such as video-games.

 

[Darxide]

I don't roleplay (that's for weird people) so I don't really ever care what my characters look like.

 

[Single Shot]

There are 2 types of people in this world:

1) Those who role play their characters and couldn't care less about their race, gender, species, sexuality, ect... so long as the character is well written capable of sucking them into its universe.

this would be all nice and dandy if things weren't as skewed as they currently are...

people love to overatate "nah men! we don't care!" but you try and point it out all of a sudden the iron gates of defensivness shut up

Firstly a thing called capitalism is what makes things as skewed as they are. If you want change bitching online is considerably less effective than going out there and showing your support for games with female / black / gay characters which don't appeal to group 1. Sadly the only members of groups 2 that are worth catering to are the (usually) straight white bro-gamer since they're the only real casual market to grow large enough, look at the rise and betrayal of the CoD franchise for example.
Most writers also write in a way that incorporates personal experiences into the game to make it more realistic, and as most games are written by straight, white, males, for reasons that go far beyond their race, gender, and sexuality then most games will be written for that perspective.

Secondly, I have never been defensive about "STRAIGHT WHITE PROTAGONSITS ONLY!!!!". What I have said is that I, like a lot of people, will play any game with a good central premise, well written characters, and a decent gameplay system. I get defensive only when people suggest the games writers be forced to quota'd into adding minority characters to their games. Weather you want to see games as art or entertainment that's a bad thing since it impedes the creative licence.
Can you imagine a world where, due to quota's, every player character had to be a minority that made explicit mention to their minority status at least once in the game? Watch_Dogs now features an Asian protagonist and is largely seen as a caricature due to his amazing IT skills. Alan Wake is a Mexican author who's shunned from the creepy village not because of his fictional demons, but because he's not white. Bioshock infinite is now the story of a black man making the eventual twist either far more obvious or totally unbelievable, and it has overtones of slavery instead of religion. Deus ex is now known for the phrase "Aw, hell no man. I didn't ask for this shit!". See how making everything about your characters minority status actually comes across as racist/sexist/ect.
Then you get to the really weird rewriting history stuff. Imagine if you couldn't accurately show the Victorian (Sherlock Homes adventures), Roman (Ryse), or Medieval periods without forcing modern minorities in? Does that extend to fantasy based on those periods like Steampunk Victorian (Thief), Ancient mythology (God of war), or Medieval fairytales (Whitcher II)? Because that's what this argument comes down to. Either you let the writer do what they want and chance the market with your cash, or you remove historically based games from the market completely and create a wave of badly written games featuring minority protagonists.

 

[Vault101]

Firstly a thing called capitalism is what makes things as skewed as they are. If you want change bitching online is considerably less effective than going out there and showing your support for games with female / black / gay characters which don't appeal to group 1.

where are all thease supoesed games? they don't get made because companies don't want to take risks...WORSE than the likes of hollywood

and people are not incaapble of playing a charachter that isn't like them...what do you think we've been doing the whole time? did anyone specifically dislike walking dead because there was a black guy? or that there was only one white guy PC in borderlands 2? no

why the hell are people so friggen eager to defend the way things are? what do they stand to gain exactly?


[quote/]Secondly, I have never been defensive about "STRAIGHT WHITE PROTAGONSITS ONLY!!!!". What I have said is that I, like a lot of people, will play any game with a good central premise, well written characters, and a decent gameplay system. I get defensive only when people suggest the games writers be forced to quota'd into adding minority characters to their games. Weather you want to see games as art or entertainment that's a bad thing since it impedes the creative licence.
Can you imagine a world where, due to quota's, every player character had to be a minority that made explicit mention to their minority status at least once in the game? Watch_Dogs now features an Asian protagonist and is largely seen as a caricature due to his amazing IT skills. Alan Wake is a Mexican author who's shunned from the creepy village not because of his fictional demons, but because he's not white. Bioshock infinite is now the story of a black man making the eventual twist either far more obvious or totally unbelievable, and it has overtones of slavery instead of religion. Deus ex is now known for the phrase "Aw, hell no man. I didn't ask for this shit!". See how making everything about your characters minority status actually comes across as racist/sexist/ect.
.[/quote]
you don't have aspirations of being a writer do you? because that was terrible...not everyone is that terrible and I find it strange so many who bulk at the idea of "oh noes! not the minoritys" apparently do so "in the name of not being sterotypical"

oh but thats beside the point because

[b/]its a comple and utter FANTASY[/b]

its never gonna happen...how the actual fuck dose anyone concince themselves this is something that will happen or somone anyone wants? its one of the stupidest non-arguments I come across everytime thsi non-debate ears its ugly head

 

[Single Shot]

Firstly a thing called capitalism is what makes things as skewed as they are. If you want change bitching online is considerably less effective than going out there and showing your support for games with female / black / gay characters which don't appeal to group 1.

where are all thease supoesed games? they don't get made because companies don't want to take risks...WORSE than the likes of hollywood

and people are not incaapble of playing a charachter that isn't like them...what do you think we've been doing the whole time? did anyone specifically dislike walking dead because there was a black guy? or that there was only one white guy PC in borderlands 2? no

why the hell are people so friggen eager to defend the way things are? what do they stand to gain exactly?


[quote/]Secondly, I have never been defensive about "STRAIGHT WHITE PROTAGONSITS ONLY!!!!". What I have said is that I, like a lot of people, will play any game with a good central premise, well written characters, and a decent gameplay system. I get defensive only when people suggest the games writers be forced to quota'd into adding minority characters to their games. Weather you want to see games as art or entertainment that's a bad thing since it impedes the creative licence.
Can you imagine a world where, due to quota's, every player character had to be a minority that made explicit mention to their minority status at least once in the game? Watch_Dogs now features an Asian protagonist and is largely seen as a caricature due to his amazing IT skills. Alan Wake is a Mexican author who's shunned from the creepy village not because of his fictional demons, but because he's not white. Bioshock infinite is now the story of a black man making the eventual twist either far more obvious or totally unbelievable, and it has overtones of slavery instead of religion. Deus ex is now known for the phrase "Aw, hell no man. I didn't ask for this shit!". See how making everything about your characters minority status actually comes across as racist/sexist/ect.
.

you don't have aspirations of being a writer do you? because that was terrible...not everyone is that terrible and I find it strange so many who bulk at the idea of "oh noes! not the minoritys" apparently do so "in the name of not being sterotypical"

oh but thats beside the point because

[b/]its a comple and utter FANTASY[/b]

its never gonna happen...how the actual fuck dose anyone concince themselves this is something that will happen or somone anyone wants? its one of the stupidest non-arguments I come across everytime thsi non-debate ears its ugly head[/quote]

First of all no, nobody in group 1 really dislikes games based on their protagonists minority status. That was the whole point I was trying to make. It's the people in group 2 that you have to convince. As for 'where are these games?' well the most recent examples would be something like remember me. It was a mediocre 3rd person adventure game that failed to like up to the same sales standards of other mediocre 3rd person adventure sims. Compare that to well written games that appeal primarily to the first group and the protagonist doesn't matter as much so long as they're believable. Yes, there is a massive skew in there, but it's not because of racism or sexism. It's because, as I have already said, group 1 does note care about the protagonists minority status and groups 2 can be best catered for by a protagonist that reflect the bro-gamer demographic.

What do I stand to gain? I get to keep my hobby from becoming a cess-pit of crap games forced into existence so the large companies don't seem offensive to anyone. I get to avoid censorship (enforced externally or internally) in games companies.

Actually, I'm published so fuck off with your 'you can't write' ad hominem there. Do you really think that forcing writers to change protagonist characters into minorities wouldn't effect their work quality? Forcing them to cater to marketing and gameplay demands already diminishes games story's more often than not so another demand would be even worse.

Now, if you have an actual argument instead of personal attacks and calling everything 'utter FANTASY' in capitals and bold letters please use that next time.

But thanks for answering the final, and most important part. How would you cope with showing periods of history like those mentioned if games had to include minority characters? And where do you draw the line on what is and isn't a time period?

 

[Something Amyss]

Elf Sternberg is good readin'; write the protagonist to his levels, and the response might surprise you.

I'm not sure what elf is, but I'm not sure why a game would have to be written to the level of "good readin'" when the average game has a story that would make a 70s Kung Fu flick embarassed.

Dunno. I've found Jennifer Hale to be The Best Shepard and the Garrus romance to be The Best Romance.
And people tell me I'm a straight male. Dunno about Garrus.

But unless you are all of the straight males, you're not really saying anything surprising, though. As I said before, I suspect that there are a number of people for which this is true. I just suspect that this number is significantly lower than the total of people who claim it. And I think you honed in on part of the issue already:

"Dudebros."

I'll preface this by saying that I don't truly know what the typical gamer is like, but the "AAA" industry is most heavily marketed towards adolescent white males of the "dudebro" or "frat boy" variety. And these games tend to sell, but we don't know if it's simply because this is the face of gaming, or because they put more resources into marketing these games. I mean, Call of Duty is practically an event in itself, which gets marketing because it's popular because it gets marketing because it's popular because....

And that's not to say these games can't be good. I like shooters. I like action. I have fun playing COD sometimes, even. The issue is that the market cultivates a certain gamer image to the point of exclusion. To the point where the industry fears something as seemingly harmless as putting Ellie or the girl from BSI (Don't remember her name because I don't care about Bioshock, sorry folks) on the cover of their game boxes.

The logic here, whether it's correct or not, is that their audience is so insecure that the mere sight of a girl would put off a significant enough portion of their audience to not make it worth the risk. Are they right? Well, I don't think they're completely right, no. I also don't think they're completely wrong.

Which is why I'd like to see it in action. I would like to see how it flew in real time if we got a bunch of black and gay and woman protagonists hogging up the AAA market. Because I think this would be a decent way to see where people really stood. If these things didn't matter, then we could expect to see comparable sales. If they did, well....There'd be a lot more cries for the return of the 83 video game crash.

But, I mean, I already think there's enough evidence to suspect the latter. I mean, look at the people losing their heads over a black Captain America or a female Thor. Hell, you can catch several of them saying that "race/sex/whatever doesn't matter, but it's suddenly different here because...Ummmmm...Ponies? I'm gonna go with ponies. And it's sort of fun to watch them scramble for justifications, but the message is fairly clear.

And yes, Jennifer Hale's Shep is awesome. Then again, Jennifer Hale is awesome, so it only follows.

 

[II2]

... Something that straight white dudes? and [pick your minority] share? The desire to see themselves in participatory media. Rather than appealing to to a sense of equality in written or spoken discussion, it is perceptibly more effective to CREATE CONTENT. People tell their own stories, best; you want female or minority characters? Encourage female and minority devs. Appealing to the big studios and publishers or gamers in general will 1) become contemptible through familiarity and be rebuked / ignored or 2) Result in tokenism.

Broader circumstance aside, I generally agree with the article's points if not its "it's whats best for you" tone. Playing Lee and Clementine in Walking Dead was interesting and gave me pause to reflect on things I might otherwise have not. The success of playing those roles though was the diegetic understanding of their 'being' in the larger story as a fixed point. I don't think the same merit is gleaned from rolling your opposite in the character customizer sliders of [pick your RPG]... The thoughtful ones do sometimes change up the male / female dialogue options, but a couple isolated programming flags on what dialogue you get does not do anything but remind you the button you picked at the start. The experience of playing a fat black lady in Saints Row or Dark Souls or Skyrim or .. whatever.. is typically a cosmetic contrivance done for personal enjoyment, not personal growth.

Regarding personal growth... The balanced people going in that trajectory are already embracing these ideas. The subfunctional shitheads who freak out at the idea of 'playing one of the nigras' that might actually stand to benefit from the advice of the article will not. Don't waste your breath.

 

[Vault101]

First of all no, nobody in group 1 really dislikes games based on their protagonists minority status. That was the whole point I was trying to make. It's the people in group 2 that you have to convince. As for 'where are these games?' well the most recent examples would be something like remember me. It was a mediocre 3rd person adventure game that failed to like up to the same sales standards of other mediocre 3rd person adventure sims.

because it was medicore...not because its protagonist was female


[quote/]Compare that to well written games that appeal primarily to the first group and the protagonist doesn't matter as much so long as they're believable. Yes, there is a massive skew in there, but it's not because of racism or sexism. It's because, as I have already said, group 1 does note care about the protagonists minority status and groups 2 can be best catered for by a protagonist that reflect the bro-gamer demographic.[/quote]
its because *other* charachters are seen as risks from a busness perspective....if they really didn't care all fine and dandy...excpet the way people freak out over it (eg: that srtawman argument I've seen a million times) it makes me wonder


[quote/]What do I stand to gain? I get to keep my hobby from becoming a cess-pit of crap games forced into existence so the large companies don't seem offensive to anyone. I get to avoid censorship (enforced externally or internally) in games companies.[/quote]
...c'mon....priorites?

except thats already happening for different reasons.....I mean we all the know the problems right now...particuallry rediculous development cost which scares publsihers away from anything remotly "different"...that "anything" includes different types of charachters alongside gameplay and specticle and all that

point is as far as games go it should be the least of ANYONE's worrys

[quote/]Actually, I'm published so fuck off with your 'you can't write' ad hominem there. Do you really think that forcing writers to change protagonist characters into minorities wouldn't effect their work quality? Forcing them to cater to marketing and gameplay demands already diminishes games story's more often than not so another demand would be even worse.[/quote]
then you should know no one would write that...


[quote/]But thanks for answering the final, and most important part. How would you cope with showing periods of history like those mentioned if games had to include minority characters? And where do you draw the line on what is and isn't a time period?[/quote]

uummm.....didn't you actually read what I said? this part:

[quote/]Now, if you have an actual argument instead of personal attacks and calling everything 'utter FANTASY' in capitals and bold letters please use that next time.[/quote]

let me explain it again

the commitee of the PC thourght police who a powerful force hell bent on forcing people to change things to confirm to a checklist?

they don't exist

they will never exist

because its rediculous

a fantasy....OR if you don't like that word..a Strawman....see what I mean?

 

[Blood Brain Barrier]

Interesting article. From Robert's perspective, everyone who ISN'T a straight white male gets the greater benefit from video games as a whole, because it allows them to explore diversity of protagonists who are unlike them. I'd have to agree with this.

Now to create a bunch of threads about how white males are oppressed by having to play as themselves all the time *rubs hands and evil grin* hahaha

 

[Vault101]

Interesting article. From Robert's perspective, everyone who ISN'T a straight white male gets the greater benefit from video games as a while, because it allows them to explore diversity of protagonists unlike them. I'd have to agree with this.

I learned while playing Nathan Drake that I hate....white "wise" cracking guys?

or just Nathan Fillion?

I think I hate Nathan Fillon...