Why the Dragon Age 2 hate is GOOD

[jawakiller]

For the most part, I agree with you, but I still don't understand why people are complaining in places that are completely unrelated to Bioware. Go on the Bioware forums, or put it on your blog, not in totally random places.

The sad truth is that this will get locked and deleted in the Bioware forum. This is the "gaming section" of a "gaming magazine", where should he take it? Oprah?

O.O
We should totally air this on oprah. Maybe it'l make her show worth watching.

Seriously though, I think people should use the system to to tell the developers of DA2 to go fuck themselves. Don't buy the game. If you wanna teach them a lesson, you have to sacrifice. I personally will never buy that piece of shit and would encourage everyone who is angered by this scam to do the same. Now I know that Escapist looks down on pirating so I won't advise that. The best way to send a message is with your money.

 

[RuralGamer]

I think one of the main reasons which people hate DA2 and which doesn't seem to have been mentioned yet is this;

Dragon Age: Origins is more of an old-school RPG

Dragon Age 2 is more of an action RPG

Problem: old-school RPG fans WILL be alienated.So really, it boils down to whether you prefer old-school or action RPGs.

I can't say that I like or dislike DA2 because I haven't played it and highly doubt I will play it for a simple reason; I don't like the so-called 'standard fantasy setting'.

From long-term commercial standpoint, I think Bioware may have made a mistake; they have obviously alienated fans of the first game and as I've learned from my uni course, disgruntled customers are one of the worst things for a company because they like to complain. Will it make a difference on the future of the series? I dunno; it depends on whether Bioware and EA care or not. Will it harm their income? Unlikely, considering roughly how much EA makes annually.

From a gameplay/enjoyment standpoint, I don't know; there was a lot about Origins I didn't like, so there was room, in my opinion, for improvement... still, as I've said, I doubt I'll be getting it because the setting of the first game, although good, didn't have enough to draw me back for another go.

I do have to say, I am interested to see what Yahtzee has to say about it, if he reviews it, considering Greg Tito gave it 5/5.

The cynic in me would also like to add this;
Bioware and Ea are for-profit businesses; they want to make money. They want to make lots of money. The best way to do this make games that the majority of gamers will play. If they lose fans because they don't like what they've made, it doesn't matter, so long as more people overall buy it. From what I gather, more people have bought DA2 than Origins: Mission Accomplished. I'm sure Yahtzee has made this point before.

 

[Rickyvantof]

What hate?
I've been spending too much time actually playing and enjoying DA2 to actually read this hate you're talking about.
Anyway, while I agree that the copy/paste of level design feels kind of rushed, the gameplay, the characters, the story and the lore really make up for it.
However it's true that it would be a better game than it is if they spent another one or two years on it. Or maybe not, maybe it'd only be slightly better at the expense of feeling kind of old(a year or two, maybe).

 

[Casual Shinji]

*Snip*

I just didn't have problem with it. I when I picked up armor I couldn't use, I just said, "Oooh, more money," and if I really studied what each piece did, I just said, "Oooh, that will be interesting to use if I pick it up when I am playing a character that can use it."

As someone else has said in this thread, DA2 actually makes me eager to play the other two classes, after finishing a first play threw. Origins just made me feel, "Uggh, I have to do that again."

I actually felt the same way in regards to DA:O, but that's basically how I feel about every Bioware game. Variety in gameplay is not really their strongest suit.

But the fact is that DA:O gave you tons of freedom to create your own character story. Sure, not all of it was necessary, but you didn't have to use all of it if you didn't want to; You had the choice. I didn't use trapmaking or herbalism at all, but the choice was still there if I did want to use it.
DA2 basically cuts all that freedom away so that everything moves more fast paced for the sake of instant gratification. Now, Mass Effect 2 did the same thing, but atleast there we had interesting characters and a variety in settings. DA2 simply boxes you into a mortar-grey city and leaves it at that. It doesn't even try to give you a sense of the scope of it's universe the way that ME2 did.

 

[CleverCover]

if you play ME2 on a harder difficulty, you shal find jack has a strong barrier, and when it goes, she always dies.

Really? Like, was there an actual difference? Does the barrier also come out when in space or the Collector ship?

I usually played with Miri and Grunt on insanity. Never had her there on the team...

 

[bootz]

I bet everybody who hate this game hasn't even PLAYED it, they just PLAYED THE DEMO.....if u haven't beaten the game, STFU....

Do you know what BEING A FAN IS? That is supporting something thru the good and the bad....Don't u know how many Star Wars fans hated Episodes 1 and 2 but still supported it? Still know the whole damn movie by heart? THATS WHAT A FAN IS...

Don't you know how many Golden State Warrior fans sell out the arena even though their team isn't gonna make the playoffs?

ITS CALLED SUPPORT! Me and a lot of my friends love Dragon Age 2 way more than 1, but for those who saying DA2 suck, but can't tell me any of the new lore, who can't discuss with me the changes that happened in the world's lore, who can't tell me how their ending of the game differed from mine, YOU ARE NOT A FAN!

Suck or don't suck, if u LOVE Dragon Age like u say u do, u play through this game, liking it or not.....I played Awakening even tho it had no gameplay changes or enhancements what so ever, but I played it for the STORY!

So if blizzard annouced WOW2 and its only set in Orgrimmar and you never leave the city that its ok. It's a more personal story. I'm the rare person that likes to explore in video games, DA2 totally cut out that aspect of the game. That made me a very sad panda. Kirkwall was deader then any city in DA:0. Assasin Creed has way better Cities.(PLURAL meanining more than one)

 

[Young Nasa]

Isn't this the same argument made to Oblivion as compared to Morrowind?

You see, when u have a GAME, you wanna PLAY IT....In Origins, you kinda was ready for combat to be over so u can get to the next story plot...

In Dragon Age 2, I was looking for fights, because well, the gameplay, ya know, THE GAME is 1,000 times better than Baldar's Gate and Origins.

For one let me get this out the way, Baldar's Gate 1 and 2 sucks ass, and is totally irrelevant now a days. Its an pretty archaic game to want a game just like it.

Even origins lacks the fluidity of story telling in a VIDEO GAME, all the characters were stagnant moving their arms around like an amateur actor, or a stage play. Origins wasn't revered as the "best game of all time" by anybody for the sequel to get so much hate, the reason we wanted a sequel is so they could improved on things that sucked in the first game, like sameish armor, bad combat animations, the feelings of certain missions being drawn out entirely too long, therefore you was stuck in the same environment for 8 hours at a time (the circle any one?).

The Epic in Origins was in its beginning when u become a warden, the part where u decide who goes to the thrown, and the part where u decide what happens to Morrigan and who's gonna kill the Dark Spawn....

Other than that, everything else has a meaningless effect on the game, like choosing the wolves or the dalish elves......In Dragon Age 2 ur decisions, even basically picking ur class, picking who comes with you on missions, have permanent consequences

 

[Young Nasa]

So if blizzard annouced WOW2 and its only set in Orgrimmar and you never leave the city that its ok. It's a more personal story. I'm the rare person that likes to explore in video games, DA2 totally cut out that aspect of the game. That made me a very sad panda. Kirkwall was deader then any city in DA:0. Assasin Creed has way better Cities.(PLURAL meanining more than one)

You leave the city numerous of times....actually more often you're out side the city in like 20 different areas mapped out in the Free Marshes, you also visit the deep roads, and u visit other places I won't spoil for you since you obviously didn't play the game.

And no Kirkwall wasn't dead at all, have u even played. Name one sitting that servered a purpose other than the one quest line given to it in Origins? Which one of those locations changed based on ur actions? None.

Ozzimar (or however u spell it) stayed the same the whole game, thats why you could visit it in any order because the state of the game changes ZERO...

All the wood areas look the same in Origins, every book case and room had the same tool set pieces in the Circle Tower, the big town

Denerim was the only BIG place and it was still 1/4th the size of Kirkwall...

And really in Dragon Age there isn't a sense of adventure mainly because its NOT OPEN WORLD. You're not gonna find some unattainable treasure by adventuring in these games, point blank period, because there is no adventure, its very old school in terms of adventure meaning you go where the game has designed you to go, no matter if the illusion of choice is given because u can tackle things in any order...

Its not like u WALKED to the Circle or you WALKED to the Dalish Elves or you WALKED Denerim...you pressed a button on the map, and you were teleported there....Not much different from Dragon Age 2....except in Dragon Age 2 all these places change, they serve as a progressive story of change as by your choices....And to me my friend, THAT is more powerful, Change by Choice, not Illusion by Design

 

[Mikeyfell]

The DA2 hate is a bad thing because Bioware can't handle constructive criticism

Remember Mass Effect everybody hated the inventory management and vehicle sections.
So guess what what was completely removed from Mass Effect 2

In Dragon Age 2 Everybody hates the dungeons, the combat, dialog system, and the story.
So if logic follows Dragon age 3 will contain no combat, no dungeons, no dialog and no story.
Fuck DA3 is going to be a Call of Duty game.

 

[psicat]

Ok another Dragon Age 2 hate thread, I'm long past getting sick of these, but might as well throw in my two cents. About the only part of the these arguments I can agree with is that the game was horribly rushed. But, most of the other complaints seem pointless, the streamlining for the most part fine and in terms of combat necessary. I found the new companions as well rounded and interesting as in the first, with some being better than others, but you can say that about the companions in Origins to. A change in direction in the focus of a Dragon Age title is also interesting. For me, it's nice to see another view of the world they are trying to build there, and I can't wait to see how things continue in the next game.

 

[Jumplion]

Remember when they tried to turn Cole of InFamous into a fucking frat boy? People went nuts and got them to change it back. We need more of that to keep the goddamn board members and focus groups out of our creative spaces.

While I do think that the reaction to the Old New Cole was a bit of an overreaction, it did stray a bit too far from the original model to the point where it didn't look much like him at all. But whatever, off topic.

On topic, I have yet to play Dragon Age 2, or Origins for that matter, but I would like to put some commentary on another BioWare game that, to me, has gone though a somewhat similar process.

I got both Mass Effect 1+2 for sale together at the same time. I played through the first Mass Effect game and while it did have some problems, I greatly enjoyed it. Sure, it was a bit tedious to go t o every single planet, drive around in the bouncy-as-fuck Mako, but it gave off an epic feeling to it, like it was just one small step in the larger universe. It had some sense of freedom, though my enjoyment was probably lessened because I had no powers (I just chose the standard Soldier option).

Now, with Mass Effect 2, it was also a good game, but something felt off. I think it dawned on me when I was going through to recruit Mordin. I was unloading clip after clip after clip after clip of non-stop bullets, explosions, and whatnot, shooting down whatever was in my way. And that was it. That was all I was doing. I shot, reloaded, shot, reloaded, hid behind cover, shot, reloaded, ad nausem. While the original Mass Effect didn't have unique combat by any means, it felt more tactical as positioning of your allies and what they were specialized in mattered more than just their raw, explosive powers. Mass Effect 2's combat, and indeed most of the game, was simplified.

Now, there's nothing wrong with simplifying your game, or making it more accessible. I'd like to think that BioWare didn't activly try to "dumb it down" and I don't think it was. But I do think that it was reduced to a simple aspect and it didn't branch out further as it could have. While it didn't feel dumbed down, it did feel simple and as I went through the waves and waves of mooks, at the end of the day I only went back to Mass Effect 2 to get on with the story. With the original Mass Effect, I played it at every opportunity I could (good thing we were on a break), I did not want to put it down because I wanted to see what happened next. The atmosphere was great, giving you a sense of an epic universe, where you are just one insignificant humanoid in a galaxy filled with fantastical creatures. Mass effect 2 simplified it to restricted, and linear, environments where it didn't give off that same epicness. It was just you, you, you, you, you are the center of everything, nobody else matters but you.

I dunno, I'm pretty sure I'm rambling now, but overall, while I did enjoy both Mass Effect 1 and 2, #2 just gives me an odd feeling.

 

[godofallu]

Completely agree. Bitching has results, sometimes. We can only hope that in the future they take a few grams from that metric ton of criticism and implement it.

 

[Young Nasa]

Actually Bioware doesn't agree with the bitching....because its way more people buying and praising the game.

Its a difference between people saying its a 70% average but not better than the first....other than rating it a 20% and sayin its shit......thats called trolling...

 

[DVS Storm]

I personally love Dragon Age 2 but I agree. DA2 was rushed and you can clearly see it. It doesn't stop it from being a an awesome game in my eyes but it isn't far from a failure. I just hope that big publishers could begin to comprehend the fact that you can't make a polished and a diverse game if you release it a year after the previous game. Like COD games for example. If they keep releasing one game in a year it is bound to destroy the franchise at some point. The same already happened with Guitar Hero franchise.

Although COD games still seems to be selling a lot of copies even though a new one comes every year. And because of this other developers are trying to make their games like COD(even market the game by saying that) and we have a lot of COD clones in our hands.

 

[bootz]

So if blizzard annouced WOW2 and its only set in Orgrimmar and you never leave the city that its ok. It's a more personal story. I'm the rare person that likes to explore in video games, DA2 totally cut out that aspect of the game. That made me a very sad panda. Kirkwall was deader then any city in DA:0. Assasin Creed has way better Cities.(PLURAL meanining more than one)

You leave the city numerous of times....actually more often you're out side the city in like 20 different areas mapped out in the Free Marshes, you also visit the deep roads, and u visit other places I won't spoil for you since you obviously didn't play the game.

And no Kirkwall wasn't dead at all, have u even played. Name one sitting that servered a purpose other than the one quest line given to it in Origins? Which one of those locations changed based on ur actions? None.

Ozzimar (or however u spell it) stayed the same the whole game, thats why you could visit it in any order because the state of the game changes ZERO...

All the wood areas look the same in Origins, every book case and room had the same tool set pieces in the Circle Tower, the big town

Denerim was the only BIG place and it was still 1/4th the size of Kirkwall...

And really in Dragon Age there isn't a sense of adventure mainly because its NOT OPEN WORLD. You're not gonna find some unattainable treasure by adventuring in these games, point blank period, because there is no adventure, its very old school in terms of adventure meaning you go where the game has designed you to go, no matter if the illusion of choice is given because u can tackle things in any order...

Its not like u WALKED to the Circle or you WALKED to the Dalish Elves or you WALKED Denerim...you pressed a button on the map, and you were teleported there....Not much different from Dragon Age 2....except in Dragon Age 2 all these places change, they serve as a progressive story of change as by your choices....And to me my friend, THAT is more powerful, Change by Choice, not Illusion by Design

So you visit rfc in Orgrimmar too. The city barely changed the same merchants who never aged.
The same templar guard who never arrested me as a mage. When you do leave its for way to short and shows what the game could be if they let you leave.(you get to go to the deep roads twice epic!) At least make the city look good. I played as a sacarastic dude and even the game was telling me "This again this happens a lot". The game points at its own flaws.
Outskirts of a city are still apart of it silly.
I slogged through the game waiting for something to happen and nothing did expect for the anders thing. Then you became Champion of the city...to get kicked out.

 

[Young Nasa]

all I gotta say is...think...EXPANSION PACK.... =), see us smart people know what they were doing....they needed to set a base foundation for a character and a story, somewhere you care about, well it work for me and the millions of ppl who own this game and like it...and when the big expansion pack hit with the extra content (cuz games ARE made to be improved for future iterations) I will buy it and enjoy how my choices effect the game...

I mean, they said the next Baldurs Gate right, remember, old school RPGS use to have 2 or 3 15-20 hour expansion packs come after it...i think this is what Dragon Age 2 is doing.

I have faith in Bioware, you guys treatn Bioware like spiderman....you don't get what u want now they the bad guy, soon as they release something great ur back on their coatails sayin thank you

EDIT: and learn your LORE, the Free Marshes aren't the outskirts of kurtwall, its actually its own big ass location, which is why the dalish live there because its FAR away from humans....

 

[Baneat]

the real fans like how it was.

What is a "real fan"

Is that opposed to say, an imaginary fan, that only lives in the dreams of developers?

This is one of those "True Scotsman" type fallacies isn't it? Or does it just appear so from the beginning?

 

[wiredk]

People have been swallowing EA's fat greasy turds for the last 11 years. It'd be nice if they wake up and realize whats going on, however the population is Sheepified.

In case someone mentions it, Activision isn't worse than EA. It just strives to be.

 

[Nimcha]

Are people honestly saying they wanted an Origins 2?
Really?
I won't deny that Origins was a fantastic game, but I'd rather not see BioWare rendered stagnant in the light of fandom self-entitlement.
Creative decisions ultimately lie with the developer. Like them or not, the fact is the consumer has no say when it comes to these things. As they shouldn't. And if they take issue with said decisions, they are free to pass on the product.

There are things about Dragon Age 2 I would've liked to see executed differently, sure. But I don't take it as some sort of absurd personal insult that a creative company attempts to progress and experiment with new design ideas.

I've been saying something similar in a few other threads. I'm really getting tired of the self-righteous attitude some 'fans' seem to have.

 

[StriderShinryu]

Are people honestly saying they wanted an Origins 2?
Really?

No! Of course not!

... they just want the.. umm.. exact same game as DA:O with a #2 on the box!

As to your earlier post about the game being rushed, I believe that Bioware actually confirmed this themselvesin a roundabout way. Basically, EA was blown away by how much cash the first one pulled in so they put the gears to the devs to make the next one ASAP. I doubt the game would have been as different and adventurous had they not had much of the groundwork for DA2 already well in mind, but it definitely explains the blatantly rushed elements (re-used maps, no real changes from year to year in Kirkwall, etc.).

Here's the Bioware comment I was talking about:
http://music.ign.com/articles/115/1154594p1.html

IGN: After the game is finished, do you go back through a play it again with all of the music in place?

Zur: Sure thing. I'm actually really anxious for the game right now, so I can pop it in and start playing. I'm really looking forward to see it. I know there are a few bugs that still need to be fixed. Unlike other titles from Bioware, this [score] was kind of a rush job. EA really wanted to capitalize on the success of Origins, so the game was really being pushed hard to be released now. So I'd like to know if there are bugs, or if there's anything we could patch or fix. [Editor's note: Zur is speaking about bugs in the score only; he had no involvement with the rest of the game's development.]