Why the Indoctrination Theory is WRONG!!!

[Sniper Team 4]

An entire 3 games disappeared mysteriously from the Xenosaga series, and I still want to choke Namco for rushing it out and half-assing the conclusion. The point is, would people be crying out if the ending to Halo sucked?

Oh man, I was not happy with them cutting those games out. That story was getting crazy with all the twists and subplots and everything. Then, to have half of it cut out...there was just no way they'd be able to get the story across. What could have been a really deep story turned into a mess. You are not alone in your disappointment on Xenosaga.

Anyway, what I read said that Shepard wasn't fully indoctrinated when she showed up on Thessia. A lot of people have countered the indoctrination theory with that piece of evidence, and it in turn was countered. Personally, I believe the indoctrination theory, even though I doubt that's what happened. Still, it makes more sense that what we got--especially if you get the bonus scene of Shepard waking up. How in the world did she end up back on Earth after all that? There's no way she's still on the Citadel because that got blown up. So confusing, so I'm going with the answer that makes sense to me.

 

[distortedreality]

Do people even bother checking to see if what they're posting has been covered before starting a new thread?

OP - you're a few weeks late. Kindly check before posting another thread, as it's undoubtedly been covered already.

What makes this even stupider is the very thing the OP is talking about is covered in the theory. Cue Captain Pickard.

 

[RatRace123]

Yeah, this has been done before, and it certainly doesn't prove that the IT is wrong.

Right now, there's no proof either way, until we see what Bioware's got planned for the whole post game clarification thing.

 

[Von Strimmer]

It's nonsense to say that Shepard was indoctrinated at some point after the attack on Illusive Man's HQ. I thought that the 'evidence' for the theory was that Shepard had been around Reaper technology, dreamed about little kids where the bushes were a specific type e.t.c
Are we supposed to accept that Commander Shepard was indoctrinated within the final minutes of
the game? Indoctrination is supposed to take a long time.

Because an all powerful god like machine is going to be outsmarted by a simple prothean VI? Harbinger has a plan for Shepard, he would not shut up about it in ME2. The Reapers have time, they are clever and plan systematically for the extinction of the galaxy. Surely the entire Reaper plan would not be decimated by some VI?

 

[Nieroshai]

An entire 3 games disappeared mysteriously from the Xenosaga series, and I still want to choke Namco for rushing it out and half-assing the conclusion. The point is, would people be crying out if the ending to Halo sucked?

Oh man, I was not happy with them cutting those games out. That story was getting crazy with all the twists and subplots and everything. Then, to have half of it cut out...there was just no way they'd be able to get the story across. What could have been a really deep story turned into a mess. You are not alone in your disappointment on Xenosaga.

Anyway, what I read said that Shepard wasn't fully indoctrinated when she showed up on Thessia. A lot of people have countered the indoctrination theory with that piece of evidence, and it in turn was countered. Personally, I believe the indoctrination theory, even though I doubt that's what happened. Still, it makes more sense that what we got--especially if you get the bonus scene of Shepard waking up. How in the world did she end up back on Earth after all that? There's no way she's still on the Citadel because that got blown up. So confusing, so I'm going with the answer that makes sense to me.

...waking up? What did I miss that this occurred? I swear I did everything within reason in the game to up my readiness, how did I miss a piece of the ending?

 

[RJ 17]

An entire 3 games disappeared mysteriously from the Xenosaga series, and I still want to choke Namco for rushing it out and half-assing the conclusion. The point is, would people be crying out if the ending to Halo sucked?

Oh man, I was not happy with them cutting those games out. That story was getting crazy with all the twists and subplots and everything. Then, to have half of it cut out...there was just no way they'd be able to get the story across. What could have been a really deep story turned into a mess. You are not alone in your disappointment on Xenosaga.

Anyway, what I read said that Shepard wasn't fully indoctrinated when she showed up on Thessia. A lot of people have countered the indoctrination theory with that piece of evidence, and it in turn was countered. Personally, I believe the indoctrination theory, even though I doubt that's what happened. Still, it makes more sense that what we got--especially if you get the bonus scene of Shepard waking up. How in the world did she end up back on Earth after all that? There's no way she's still on the Citadel because that got blown up. So confusing, so I'm going with the answer that makes sense to me.

...waking up? What did I miss that this occurred? I swear I did everything within reason in the game to up my readiness, how did I miss a piece of the ending?

Gotta have at least 5K EMS and you can only do it with the "Kill All Synthetics" ending. Any other ending involves Shepard getting vaporized.......which apparently equates to becoming Indoctrinated if the theory is correct.

But to all Indoctrination Theory believers, here's why it remains a theory, as I explained in a topic earlier today that said the exact same thing and damn-near the exact same topic title.

SPOILER WARNING

Okay now I know that I've already posted a thread on the Indoctrination Theory for Mass Effect 3 but I recently finished another play through of Mass Effect 3 and I realised something...

Unlike my previous criticism, this one will show that the IDT is wrong - you will have to let go of the theory!

Here it is:

If you play through the game without importing a Shepard and then speed run through the game only doing the main missions (I did this in 9 hours 35 mins on Narrative Difficulty) you'll end up with a really low EMS

Due to this the Catalyst will only give you one choice at the end: Destroy. You have NO other options. There is a problem here.

IDT says that the sequence with the Catalyst is a 'test' by Harbinger and choosing the Destroy ending shows Shepard has not lost to Harbinger - becasue with a really high EMS you see Shepard breathing in some rubble .

If that was true, WHY is there a scenario where Harbinger only gives Shepard Destroy as an option? If we follow IDT this logically does not make sense since it suggests that, somehow, a poorly prepared Shepard (one with really low EMS) is stronger willed than a ultra prepared Shepard! That clearly makes no sense!

Of course the explanation is that IDT is just wrong and only having the Destroy as an option was punishment from Bioware for being useless.

We can therefore conclude that:

Marauder Shields was wrong XD

That's why it's called a "theory". It has a lot of evidence that fits but it cannot be proven.

Other things that detract from the Indoctrination Theory.

1: If it's correct, then that means that the series ends before the war with the Reapers is over. There IS no conclusion. If the ending sequence goes on in Shepard's head then they're all still fucked: Shepard never REALLY got to the Citadel, never REALLY opened it up, and they never REALLY plugged in the Crucible. So Shepard wakes back up, having successfully staved off Indoctrination...and the Reapers go on reaping and the cycle ends in failure like all those before it.

2: If two of the choices equate to "Shepard gets indoctrinated and loses", why is the Star Gazer scene there no matter which ending you take? If you fail and become indoctrinated, that means the Reapers win. Shouldn't Star Gazer be...you know...non-existent?

3: It has been argued that the movies after you make your choice with the Reapers flying away/exploding and the beam shooting through the galaxy are all just hallucinations to placate Shepard. That works for the two "Shepard gets Indoctrinated" choices, but what about "Shepard breaks free"? First of all, if Shepard is free of Indoctrination, how would there be a vision in the first place? And for that matter, if Shepard breaks free, why bother showing a vision of success? What, is Harbinger like "Doooooh ok, Shepard, you broke free. Here's a nice little dream to keep you happy until you wake back up and find that we're still absolutely destroying the united galactic fleet you managed to scrape together."

But there's also way too many holes in the "literal interpretation" to consider it a fool-proof explanation either. Apparently the Bioware designers intentionally made it this way so there will be - quote - "Lots of Speculation for Everyone!!"

 

[BreakAtmo]

Personally I think the Indoctrination theory is true. Partly because there are so many little bits of evidence pointing to it, but most of those can be explained away by coincidence or bad writing so it doesn't constitute real proof. However, I did recently find out about something VERY interesting that I honestly can't think of any explanation for other than 'everything after being hit by Harbinger is a dream'. Tell me - have any of you turned around immediately after getting up in front of the beam? I never thought to, and I really wish I had, because you see this:

Trees. A couple of the very trees you're always seeing in your dreams, right there after you get up. BioWare had to actually go to the trouble of taking those tree models and putting them there, where they were not before when you were running down the hill dodging Harbinger's attacks - not to mention the fact that most people would never turn around in that scene. If anyone can think of a reason for this besides them being a direct hint of Shepard being in a dream, I REALLY want to hear it.

 

[Outcast107]

*Sighs*....I feel like Vegeta from DBZ Abridge. Talking to nappa about people who keep bringing up "PROOF" that IT is fake. Yet we already discuss it to death and put that "PROOF!" to bullshit.

look. Read. This. Post. (Or should I put it in all Caps so I look like I'm smart?)

the Prothean Vi are not the greatest tool in detecting indoc units. Sleeper agents were always doing harm during the prothean war with the reapers. It been stated many times by Javik, This Prothean Vi and ME1 Prothean Vi.

They all said the same thing. Reaper Sleeper agents always got inside their base and fuck their shit up. So to say "Shepard not Indoctrinated due to this Prothean VI!" is wrong. To me, from teh proof form all three games, it seem they can only detect indoctrinated forces when they have implants of reaper tech.

Notice how when the VI detect the indoctrinated person is when they admit to having high levels of reaper tech. Saren, Leng, and finally TIM. I don't think they can detect the slow level of Indoc that Shepard is going through if the theory is true.

Plus, why do people fight with this theory tooth and nail. If they didn't plan this at all..then we are looking possible months before they even fix this. Depending on how much work they try to do this. Are you saying you want them to rush and do even more crappy job then already is?

At least with the IT we can say this was plan and they have it already to be release whenever they feel like it. I rather have it within a few days to a week instead of waiting MONTHS! to have it.

 

[Knight Templar]

If the VI could detect any level of effect from indoctrination and not simply persons so affected by indoctrination they serve only the reapers then the Protheans would never have fallen to indoctrinated agents, but they did.

If the theory is true or not Shepard must be affected in some way by indoctrination because he has spent so much time around Reaper devices and Reapers themselves. I find the idea that Shepard has not been affected by any level of indoctrination to be harder to belive than the indoctrination theory itself.

Suffering some effects of the indoctrination signal and being indoctrinated are not the same thing. Everybody on Eden Prime was hit with that signal as Sov landed, but they were not all indoctrinated.