Why the XBone is a good console

[mKeRix]

Hey,
after seeing all the hype around the PS4 and (often even unjust) hate against the XBone I felt like I should post this thread. First of, note that while I'll try to go by facts, I can't be completely objective. I'm fully aware that I'll go against popular opinion with this post, but looking at prior experience with the Escapist forums I hope to find at least a few people who are willing to discuss like proper people and without all the hype.
Now, let's get started. I've been checking different sites over the last few days and have talked to quite a bit of people about the new generation. As Yahtzee already said, you don't have to buy any console, but people feel like they do, so that's what causes these problems. That divides sites into either a PS4 fanbase or an XBone fanbase, because others just don't want to join a thread where people are going wild about the other console.
Let me start off that personally, I think both consoles are good. Both are on par when it comes to technical details and so on, they are just aiming to do different things. And let me note that even if the XBone will fail horribly (more than certain it won't, more about that later), that's not the end of Microsoft. That's just the vocal voices of a few on the internet.
Let's address the main points that people have been criticizing over the last few days:

1. Used games:
The blockade of selling used games is entirely up to the publisher, so are the fees. What Microsoft has done here is an official way of what already happened before. Remember the Online Passes? That's just like that. Nobody has has to use them. They can. Now, if EA would decide to be a dick and use it - what would happen? They'd do it on every platform. They won't be interested in holding up Sony's image of the messiah console, they want their money. So afaik, it doesn't matter. The possibilities are there on both platforms.

2. Game sharing:
After Sony's admittedly hilarious video about sharing games (which was also perceived as childish by some, but I think these little slaps are fun in a way) people have been saying that you won't be able to share games on the XBone. Well, yes and no. You can still share games, you can give your game to up to 10 of your friends without even having to hand them your disc, they'll just have it on their account and can easily download and play it right away. The only thing here is, you need to have them on your friends list for at least 30 days and you can only give them them every game once. But honestly, I don't think that's too limiting. I wouldn't hand out my games to people that I just met either. And if you know them for a while and they just made a new account, then 30 days isn't bad either. Apart from that, I've never seen anyone rent a game twice. If you like it after playing it, you usually just buy it.

UPDATE: Mixed this up a little bit, but thankfully [user]9thRequiem[/user] clarified it:

This is two separate things.
One is that up to 10 friends can be in your "Family", and can play your games whenever they like, though each game can only be played by one friend at a time. This is "Sharing" games. I have no idea why this feature isn't widely loved - Share games, with close friends, without needing a disc. If Microsoft went down the Sony route and made a snarky video, maybe things would be clearer.
Separately, there's "Giving" games, which can be done to anyone who's been on your friends list for at least 30 days and can only be done once. After giving someone a game, you no longer have it. This is a much less useful feature, but still beats Steam's game giving.

3. 24h offline time:
This is a point I can't say much about. I can think of many reasons why they'd do such a thing, but there's nothing I really want to defend here. For me it's no problem at all, I like my games and consoles (and PC) for the online multiplayer, but I see why it would bother people. On the other hand, I'm sure this is nothing they couldn't change. It happened before, so you can hope. If you know you'll be offline for longer than a day, then definitely don't buy the XBone yet though.

4. Evil spying Kinect:
This wrong, just wrong. It has been confirmed that the Kinect can be turned off completely long ago, and you won't be spied. The Kinect itself is also a fairly useful tool, I own a Kinect 1 and there are some fun games for it out there, and it adds functionality by voice commands etc. I know people don't like being forced to get a product, but it's entirely possible that there will be an "Arcade" edition like with the 360, which is cheaper and delivered without Kinect. "Why did Microsoft do this in the first place?" you could ask now. To prevent segmentation. This way everyone has the same setup and games can be designed in that way. Apart from that I believe that if people don't try something new over time, things can't evolve.

5. Hardware:
The hardware isn't too different, really. You have about the same specs in both consoles, if I trust some of the other posts I read the XBone is slightly worse, but that's nothing you could notice. Apart from that, Microsoft has the whole cloud computing thing going, and while you might start laughing at me now, this is the future and even Sony knows it.

6. Features:
The XBone is an entertainment device, and it's being marketed as such. Personally, I'd be happy if my device could do more, not mad as many others. I can use Skype, watch TV, play games, record, upload and stream... I'm happy about features. It works just like a small PC (I know, PC master race bla bla), and I think that this is good that way. I would like to see a unified experience over all devices one day.

7. Controller:
For some reason I also found some people complaining about the controller. I can't really understand that, for me the XBox controller has always been the best one on the market right now. Wasn't able to hold a PS4 controller so far, but the PS3 ones were none I could really play with.

8. Design:
The simple design (even though it really shouldn't matter) is used so it can fit anywhere in your living room. It's elegant and I like it. Your choice. Although both consoles don't look too different.

9. Games/Exclusives:
This is anyone's game. If you like the PS4's exclusives, go buy that. If you like the XBone's games (of which there are more announced at the moment), go buy that.

10. Price:
I know, I know, money doesn't grow on trees. However, the console price is essentially the same for both. What makes up the other 100 dollars are the extra things in the package, like the Kinect, that you'd have to purchase separately for the PS4. And Gold doesn't count as an argument either, Microsoft and Sony both do the paying for multiplayer now. And so far, Microsoft's servers seem more powerful (waiting for statement on Sony's side), and they've been that way in the past as well.

Now, as you can see, both consoles are not too different. They are both good. They are selling well, and none of them has any big advnatge. The amount of pre-orders is basically the same for both (according to Amazon). This is still early in the "war", so we can only see how it ends once both are out for a while. The XBone will grab a lot of the casuals, while the PS4 currently is mostly bought by "hardcore gamers" as you could say. It's a choice of target group that can go either way. Apart from that, nothing is set in stone yet, we still have a couple of months to go. So, a plea of mine, if you see any of these ridiculous fan circle jerks, don't join them. You can decide what you want to buy, and you can tell anyone why you'd want to buy it, but we don't need another post about how great one console is. It changes nothing if you say Microsoft is doomed a thousand times, look at SimCity - everyone said they're not going to buy it, but it still sold well. The people on forums don't make up the largest amount of buyers.
Both consoles are good. And please don't forget that no company is an angel, they all don't know you and need to make profit, that's how it works. We've seen that often enough in the past.
Okay, this rounds up all the things I wanted to comment on (if I didn't forget anything). I'm open to discuss anything on this topic with you, if you deliver valid arguments.

 

[Foolery]

Ok. Well, I'm just going to repost a bit from one of my earlier posts today. The platform is just a vessel to me. A gateway to games. It's all subjective and all preferential. I like personally like to choose platforms that are the most beneficial to me. For consoles, that's DRM free, used games friendly, no online fee, no online pass, full functionality offline, etc. There is zero benefit to me in buying an Xbox One. No interest in owning what I consider a crippled machine that's at the mercy of Microsoft. I'm out. No hate. I have other gaming options to choose from. PC, Wii U, 3DS, retro, and possibly PS4.

 

[9thRequiem]

2. Game sharing:
After Sony's admittedly hilarious video about sharing games (which was also perceived as childish by some, but I think these little slaps are fun in a way) people have been saying that you won't be able to share games on the XBone. Well, yes and no. You can still share games, you can give your game to up to 10 of your friends without even having to hand them your disc, they'll just have it on their account and can easily download and play it right away. The only thing here is, you need to have them on your friends list for at least 30 days and you can only give them them every game once. But honestly, I don't think that's too limiting. I wouldn't hand out my games to people that I just met either. And if you know them for a while and they just made a new account, then 30 days isn't bad either. Apart from that, I've never seen anyone rent a game twice. If you like it after playing it, you usually just buy it.

This is two separate things.
One is that up to 10 friends can be in your "Family", and can play your games whenever they like, though each game can only be played by one friend at a time. This is "Sharing" games. I have no idea why this feature isn't widely loved - Share games, with close friends, without needing a disc. If Microsoft went down the Sony route and made a snarky video, maybe things would be clearer.
Separately, there's "Giving" games, which can be done to anyone who's been on your friends list for at least 30 days and can only be done once. After giving someone a game, you no longer have it. This is a much less useful feature, but still beats Steam's game giving.

I'm with you - I think it's amazing, and it's flaws have been widely overstated.
But there's a lot of people who genuinely don't like it on here (some for legitimate reasons, others less so); expect a lot of hate to come your way for daring to suggest it's got some advantages. I've managed to avoid that, but then I've not created a thread for it.
I'm expecting someone to suggest you work for MS.

 

[Bertylicious]

I dunno mate. It all kind of reads like a medievel peasant trying to justify why it's alright for his landlord to rape his daughter.

Doesn't it all seem a bit restrictive to you? Like if you had a coke machine and a pepsi machine but every time you wanted a coke it made you fill out a form?

 

[Rofl Harris]

This is two separate things.
One is that up to 10 friends can be in your "Family", and can play your games whenever they like, though each game can only be played by one friend at a time. This is "Sharing" games. I have no idea why this feature isn't widely loved - Share games, with close friends, without needing a disc. If Microsoft went down the Sony route and made a snarky video, maybe things would be clearer.
Separately, there's "Giving" games, which can be done to anyone who's been on your friends list for at least 30 days and can only be done once. After giving someone a game, you no longer have it. This is a much less useful feature, but still beats Steam's game giving.

I'm with you - I think it's amazing, and it's flaws have been widely overstated.
But there's a lot of people who genuinely don't like it on here (some for legitimate reasons, others less so); expect a lot of hate to come your way for daring to suggest it's got some advantages. I've managed to avoid that, but then I've not created a thread for it.
I'm expecting someone to suggest you work for MS.

What's the purpose of the share function? Is this a limited time thing so your friend can play it like a rental title? Or does it remain accessible to your friend indefinitely?

 

[9thRequiem]

This is two separate things.
One is that up to 10 friends can be in your "Family", and can play your games whenever they like, though each game can only be played by one friend at a time. This is "Sharing" games. I have no idea why this feature isn't widely loved - Share games, with close friends, without needing a disc. If Microsoft went down the Sony route and made a snarky video, maybe things would be clearer.
Separately, there's "Giving" games, which can be done to anyone who's been on your friends list for at least 30 days and can only be done once. After giving someone a game, you no longer have it. This is a much less useful feature, but still beats Steam's game giving.

I'm with you - I think it's amazing, and it's flaws have been widely overstated.
But there's a lot of people who genuinely don't like it on here (some for legitimate reasons, others less so); expect a lot of hate to come your way for daring to suggest it's got some advantages. I've managed to avoid that, but then I've not created a thread for it.
I'm expecting someone to suggest you work for MS.

What's the purpose of the share function? Is this a limited time thing so your friend can play it like a rental title? Or does it remain accessible to your friend indefinitely?

It's accessible to your friends indefinitely, as if it was their own.

Xbox One will enable new forms of access for families. Up to ten members of your family can log in and play from your shared games library on any Xbox One. Just like today, a family member can play your copy of Forza Motorsport at a friend?s house. Only now, they will see not just Forza, but all of your shared games.

And it was mentioned at E3 that anyone can be added to your family, even if they're just friends.

 

[nexus]

That's well and good. The console will bomb, however. It couldn't have picked a worse time, what with the NSA scandal and all.

and you won't be spied.

Yea, you will.

 

[Tupolev]

2. Game sharing:
After Sony's admittedly hilarious video about sharing games (which was also perceived as childish by some, but I think these little slaps are fun in a way) people have been saying that you won't be able to share games on the XBone. Well, yes and no. You can still share games, you can give your game to up to 10 of your friends without even having to hand them your disc, they'll just have it on their account and can easily download and play it right away. The only thing here is, you need to have them on your friends list for at least 30 days and you can only give them them every game once. But honestly, I don't think that's too limiting. I wouldn't hand out my games to people that I just met either. And if you know them for a while and they just made a new account, then 30 days isn't bad either. Apart from that, I've never seen anyone rent a game twice. If you like it after playing it, you usually just buy it.

You're mixing up the "game sharing" thing and the "giving your friend a game" thing.

You're not going to be able to just give 10 people open access to all of your games. That would leave Microsoft hilariously wide-open to people making group accounts and buying 1/10th as many games; if they go through all this DRM trouble, they're not going to leave themselves open to that. My guess is that the game is still associated with your account in such a way that if someone is playing one game associated with your account, all your other games are blocked off until that person stops, just like how digital game libraries often work right now. Or something similarly restrictive.

 

[Casual Shinji]

3. 24h offline time:
This is a point I can't say much about. I can think of many reasons why they'd do such a thing, but there's nothing I really want to defend here. For me it's no problem at all, I like my games and consoles (and PC) for the online multiplayer, but I see why it would bother people. On the other hand, I'm sure this is nothing they couldn't change. It happened before, so you can hope. If you know you'll be offline for longer than a day, then definitely don't buy the XBone yet though.

You may have a perfectly stable and fine internet connection, but remember Diablo 3 and Sim City? The issue is not the consumer's internet, it's the servers belonging to Microsoft and other publishers. What if there was a Sony-style mass hack? A whole month (or more!) without being able to play your games because of noxious, unnecessary, corporate serving architecture.

Yep, this one is the real kicker for me. This whole once-a-24-hours DRM serves no purpose except as some electronic bracelet for the user. The Xbox1 has options to plenty to lock you out of your own 500 dollar console.

Microsoft is fucking scared as hell of their own customers, and the only solution they see is total subjugation.

 

[VanQ]

Don't you love how whenever a corporation pulls a stunt that backfires on it that their damage control and marketers fire up their unused accounts all over the place and start to post in their defense?

Really guys, it's not so bad that you can't play Diablo 3 even though you waited 10 years, paid for it and used the last of your paid leave to take three days off months in advance so you could play it! You should consider yourself lucky you can even play the game when it's available!

And Sim City? Oh, who minds that you can't play it or if you're one of the few players that can you have to put up with awful server loads that cause severe lag. Oh and don't mind the shoddy AI, you should just consider yourself lucky you can play the game!

Don't mind the XBox One and all its draconian DRM, high-tech spy camera and the inability to trade in your games. You don't have a stable internet connection anyway, so we're just gonna lock down your console so none of that matters. Have you heard? We have an offline console that would suit you just fine, it's called the XBox 360! Maybe you should piss off and play that until you can find a way to access American Metropolitan or Japanese tier internet?

Have I missed anything in recent memory? I'm not gonna to put up with shit, no matter how much you tell me the shit isn't so bad and I'm lucky to even have the shit in the first place.

 

[TomWiley]

It's so very refreshing to see these kind of threads that go against the myopic Internet masses and and comes with an original opinion - or rather - a well-founded and not overly biased and jaundiced opinion.

This current wave of, well, straight out hatred for the Xbox One is an overreaction, but it's still damaging. It's depressing seeing users on various forums being bullied just for admitting to planning to buy an Xbox. The gaming community is like a reactionary mob - one opinion and no original thinking. Right now the mob is trending to hatred of Microsoft, tomorrow it'll be trending to hatred of something else, perhaps even Sony when their next inevitably dick-move has happened.

What's worse is the way the parasitic game "journalism" takes advantage to this and writes headlines such as "How Sony defeated Microsoft - the final blow", designed to appeal to the mob (and get hits).

 

[TomWiley]

Don't you love how whenever a corporation pulls a stunt that backfires on it that their damage control and marketers fire up their unused accounts all over the place and start to post in their defense?

Really guys, it's not so bad that you can't play Diablo 3 even though you waited 10 years, paid for it and used the last of your paid leave to take three days off months in advance so you could play it! You should consider yourself lucky you can even play the game when it's available!

And Sim City? Oh, who minds that you can't play it or if you're one of the few players that can you have to put up with awful server loads that cause severe lag. Oh and don't mind the shoddy AI, you should just consider yourself lucky you can play the game!

Don't mind the XBox One and all its draconian DRM, high-tech spy camera and the inability to trade in your games. You don't have a stable internet connection anyway, so we're just gonna lock down your console so none of that matters. Have you heard? We have an offline console that would suit you just fine, it's called the XBox 360! Maybe you should piss off and play that until you can find a way to access American Metropolitan or Japanese tier internet?

Have I missed anything in recent memory? I'm not gonna to put up with shit, no matter how much you tell me the shit isn't so bad and I'm lucky to even have the shit in the first place.

Here's someone who obviously didn't read the OP's post, because you're bringing up arguments that have already been "dismantled".

 

[AstylahAthrys]

Even with the positives that Microsoft does have going for it, the negatives are absolute deal breakers for many people. I don't hate the Xbone, I'm wishy-washy about it, and I think some people are a wee bit paranoid about the Kinect spying thing, though with reason with all the privacy scandals breaking out right now.

Most of the shitty stuff won't be much of an inconvenience for me, especially since I won't be getting the console at launch, guaranteed, but it will be for a lot of people. Microsoft has a lot to do before they can win the majority of their customers back, and it's going to take a lot of work. So, no, the Xbone isn't as bad as most people are making it out to be, but there is still a lot of bad shit going around with it that really grinds people's gears.

 

[klaynexas3]

There's no reason to have a 24 hour check in time that is in the favor of the consumer. It is a horrible policy that we all hate at any rate, so that's one bad thing about it. Then they force you to connect your games to an account, making it to where it's like a digital store. To be fair, as a digital store policy, that's a pretty good one allowing for games to be shared and even given to friends. However, this is a console, not a PC, and so we don't want to see it shift from a console style market where the physical copies reign supreme. With the PS4, I will be capable of giving my games to friends if I want, sharing them if I want, playing it offline for longer than a day if I damn well want. With the Xbone, I would have to go through Microsoft and the publishers to do all this, and I couldn't play it offline for longer than a day either way. And on top of all this, they force you to have a camera that is always on as long as the console is, making the price $100 more. So, with all that in consideration, with the hardware being fairly close with these two consoles, there are far more negatives on the Xbone than on the PS4, so, by comparison, the Xbone is the crappier of the two consoles. And by general standards of policies, it's one of the worst consoles so far.

 

[VanQ]

Here's someone who obviously didn't read the OP's post, because you're bringing up arguments that have already been "dismantled".

The only thing that has been "dismantled" is Microsoft's own credibility. I don't care that the Kinect can be turned off when you aren't playing, the fact is it will be sitting there watching you the entire time you're playing CoD/watching tv or sports.

And frankly, your implication that I'm saying anything I'm saying because of "mob mentality" is insulting. I have formed my own opinion based on the information Microsoft have provided me themselves. And they told me to piss off and buy a 360. Sometimes the mob has a point and the point now is that Microsoft have dun goofed. They've let their greed and fear of their own customers warp their views and they've created a console that is full of major disadvantages for anyone that doesn't have stable internet and a lot of money.

 

[smithy_2045]

The only thing Microsoft has done wrong (and boy have they done it wrong) is the marketing side of things.

 

[Maximum Bert]

Here's someone who obviously didn't read the OP's post, because you're bringing up arguments that have already been "dismantled".

The only thing that has been "dismantled" is Microsoft's own credibility. I don't care that the Kinect can be turned off when you aren't playing, the fact is it will be sitting there watching you the entire time you're playing CoD/watching tv or sports.

And frankly, your implication that I'm saying anything I'm saying because of "mob mentality" is insulting. I have formed my own opinion based on the information Microsoft have provided me themselves. And they told me to piss off and buy a 360. Sometimes the mob has a point and the point now is that Microsoft have dun goofed. They've let their greed and fear of their own customers warp their views and they've created a console that is full of major disadvantages for anyone that doesn't have stable internet and a lot of money.

Yup I am with you and anyone trying to just brush off the backlash towards the Xbox One as pure mob mentality is ridiculous many of us have followed what Microsoft have said and what they are doing and decided that we want no part in it myself included.

All Microsoft have done is put barriers in front of people and their games, Sony have as well which is also incredibly annoying but it just goes to show how badly Microsoft have messed up that the amount Sony have done is seen as acceptable because Microsoft themselves introduced the concept before and got away with it somehow.

The whole Xbox One console is a headache and its not a direction I and it seems many others approve of. The games could be amazing but at what cost?

I usually get all the consoles and have been gaming for a long time but the Xbone is the first console that has actually turned me fully against it and quite frankly disgusted me with its attitude towards consumers.

Frankly if public opinion does sway against Microsoft spreading beyond the dedicated gamer to the more casual person it will be a job well done.

 

[mKeRix]

This is two separate things.
One is that up to 10 friends can be in your "Family", and can play your games whenever they like, though each game can only be played by one friend at a time. This is "Sharing" games. I have no idea why this feature isn't widely loved - Share games, with close friends, without needing a disc. If Microsoft went down the Sony route and made a snarky video, maybe things would be clearer.
Separately, there's "Giving" games, which can be done to anyone who's been on your friends list for at least 30 days and can only be done once. After giving someone a game, you no longer have it. This is a much less useful feature, but still beats Steam's game giving.

Woops, sorry. It was mentioned for a really short time in the presentation only, so I kinda misunderstood that then. Thanks for clearing it up, that just makes me even happier about my decision of getting an XBox One someday. Being in a long distance relationship, being able to give away games just like that is an amazing feature.
I'll update the main post by quoting yours.

I'm with you - I think it's amazing, and it's flaws have been widely overstated.
But there's a lot of people who genuinely don't like it on here (some for legitimate reasons, others less so); expect a lot of hate to come your way for daring to suggest it's got some advantages. I've managed to avoid that, but then I've not created a thread for it.
I'm expecting someone to suggest you work for MS.

I was fully aware that would happen when I was posting, especially after I've read all the other popular threads at the moment. But a) I had to get this out as it was bothering me and B) I hope to clean up with some rumors for those that are willing to listen to me.

I dunno mate. It all kind of reads like a medievel peasant trying to justify why it's alright for his landlord to rape his daughter.

Doesn't it all seem a bit restrictive to you? Like if you had a coke machine and a pepsi machine but every time you wanted a coke it made you fill out a form?

To me? Personally, no, I don't mind. I see why people wouldn't like the restrictions, but the advantages that come with the restrictions are far more appealing to me. I don't really care about any of the requirements - but that is my opinion. If you dislike the sharing features, then go with another console or the PC. This isn't supposed to be a thread about recruiting players to the XBox, I just want to clean up with some of the rumors mostly.

It... really isn't. The entire system is made so you can't trade physical copies of games without giving them to specific 'partnered retailers' who are going to be Gamestop, Game, EB Games, etc, etc. This is not an optional thing. It's the only reason the 24 hour phone home thing exists. Yeah, nobody has to use online passes because Microsoft have built a wonderful, closed garden where publishers can screw over consumers without having to lift a finger.

It is optional, that's confirmed. There even was an article on the Escapist frontpage not too long ago about the developers behind The Witcher and them being convinced that they won't have to add in any DRM.
I couldn't find any better article in English right now to prove that, but this will do. I'm certain they mentioned it being optional in another official statement as well, but I don't know where anymore. I'll maybe edit in if I find it.

So what you're saying is, these needless limitations aren't especially limiting because 'they're not too limiting'? Compared to the PS4 and the WiiU, it's still absolutely absurd. It means you can't sell your games unless you trade them into a big retailer, and the whole giving friends your games without handing them over is brought about by this limitation and it's still incredibly imperfect.

I'm saying that I'd rather have an easy system where I could just give 10 friends my game for access at any time than having to give a disc around. For me it's useful, any of my 10 friends of choice can play my games, that's like owning 10 discs of each game and giving them to your friends. 10 in 1 - not bad at all, right?
If you view it as limiting, well then, your loss. Personally I'll just enjoy the possibilities opened up this way.

You may have a perfectly stable and fine internet connection, but remember Diablo 3 and Sim City? The issue is not the consumer's internet, it's the servers belonging to Microsoft and other publishers. What if there was a Sony-style mass hack? A whole month (or more!) without being able to play your games because of noxious, unnecessary, corporate serving architecture.

I do remember their launches, who couldn't. Thing is, I predict this won't happen. Why? Microsoft has 300k servers for XBox Live ready, and they've been in the computing business longer than Sony. They know how to handle these things, that's why the 360 users always could laugh at the PS3 players online network.
Even if it would go down for an hour, that's not a single problem - everyone will be kicked off for a moment and will be able to sign in again within the 24h limit. These servers don't have to handle a constant connection of players sending and receiving their data, they authenticate and they do the matchmaking. And the cloud computing of course, but that is optional so far.

Can't be completely turned off. Needs to be plugged in and will still react to certain voice commands. Assuming there will be an arcade edition is, well, an assumption.

Read this. Please inform yourself enough about topics before stating the contrary. This has been confirmed a while ago.
And yes, it's an assumption. But so is that Sony stays an "angel of the gamers", right? All we can do is assuming and trust. Things can change very easily.

PS4 is estimated to be 50 percent more powerful than the Xbox One. [http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-spec-analysis-xbox-one] Consumers won't notice or care, but developers surely will. And this isn't like the PS3 where it was more powerful but came bundled with a whole bunch of programming headaches - both systems have the same architecture, meaning that the only way a multiplat game could be worse on the PS4 is if it is deliberately gimped.

It's not going to be annoying for the developers. In fact, the PS4 will still be harder to develop for, because Microsoft is unifying their products, making it possible for developers to release their games to all their platforms with only little changes.
And if you aren't a developer, I don't think you should care if they have a headache or not. They'll find a way, especially since the XBox is said to be more "publisher-friendly". You said yourself you won't notice. Another good example for this are the Windows Phones: they don't have the high end specs the other smartphones on Android do, because they don't need them. Again, Microsoft has been in this business long enough, they know how to optimize and run things. Sometimes you don't need killer specs if you have a better optimized OS.

As for cloud computing, ha. Hahahahahaha. Ha. No. Microsoft have yet to show anything intensive running on cloud computing, and so far it appears to be an excuse to bundle always-online into games. And if cloud does blossom into a big thing, Sony have Gaikai. So they'll be able to use cloud and have that 50 percent extra power.

Another article for you. This is nothing happening from one night to the other. The possibilities are being discovered as we speak, this is a slow process making the console more powerful over time. Forza for example already uses the cloud computing for creating a giant AI database.
And I know they have Gaikai, but they will still be far behind when they actually start doing more in the direction of cloud computing. Microsoft is looking to the future here, as with all of its newer products. And that's not a bad thing to do in my opinion.

PS4 looks like a PS2. Xbox One looks like a laserdisc player.

I like both designs, as I said though, that's your personal decision and in no way a reason to judge a console for.

I fail to see how this is a point in MS's favour. They will have Xbox exclusives? Yay?

Read more closely. I never said anything that would put Microsoft in favor. I just heard many saying that Microsoft is doomed because Sony has "better" exclusives, so I felt like addressing that as well while I'm at it.

The console price is not 'essentially the same'. Not even remotely. You can't say 'Oh it comes with the Kinect so that's why it costs more! Really it costs $399.' What an utterly baffling argument. Is there currently even a hint of the Xbox One coming without the Kinect at any point? Nope, so it costs 100 dollars more to the consumer. You don't just subtract money from a price because something in the box adds to that overall price. You're just reaching at this point.

Yes, I can. Why? Because you pay the same for the full experience. Looking at price/value here, it's identical. The price tag is of course different, but not too much either. Psychologically seen people often even go with the more expensive products as they thing the price difference means quality.
No, there's no hint, but I'm assuming things just like you. If you want, you can even say I hope. And, I also assume/hope that there will be deals for the consoles.

As for PSPlus vs Xbox Live, PSPlus costs less than gold, has better features than gold. Microsoft have so kindly graced Live subscribers with Halo 3 and AssCreed 2 now, a game that's six years old and a game that's four years old. How kind of them. PS4 also allows watching of any apps like Netflix and Flixster without a PSPlus subscription, unlike the Xbox One.

PS+ has the same price as gold, or if you're smart Gold is even cheaper than the PSN.
No, PS+ didn't have any better features so far. It was missing out on cross-game voice caht for years, and that's just embarrassing. Many were complaining about how laggy the servers were and so on. The fee was there for a reason, good service costs, these masses of servers don't pay themselves.
And, since you loved to criticize my "assuming", again, you're just assuming as well. There's no confirmation about any pay wall for apps yet. And even if it would be that way, I doubt you would just want to use your console for Netflix and singleplayer games if you have the possiblity of multiplayer right there.

That's well and good. The console will bomb, however. It couldn't have picked a worse time, what with the NSA scandal and all.

and you won't be spied.

Yea, you will.

It won't bomb, the sales have been going well already. The average customer doesn't care about all the people whining on the internet right now, just as a reminder.
Oh, we're at assuming again: Sony will spy you too. Hah, no, kidding. Nobody knows if anyone will spy you. But they won't. There's no point to it. However, every company is collecting statistics, that's normal in our age.

Don't you love how whenever a corporation pulls a stunt that backfires on it that their damage control and marketers fire up their unused accounts all over the place and start to post in their defense?

Don't mind the XBox One and all its draconian DRM, high-tech spy camera and the inability to trade in your games. You don't have a stable internet connection anyway, so we're just gonna lock down your console so none of that matters. Have you heard? We have an offline console that would suit you just fine, it's called the XBox 360! Maybe you should piss off and play that until you can find a way to access American Metropolitan or Japanese tier internet?

Have I missed anything in recent memory? I'm not gonna to put up with shit, no matter how much you tell me the shit isn't so bad and I'm lucky to even have the shit in the first place.

As [user]TomWiley[/user] said, read. Has that become a rare art on internet forums as of now?
And no, I don't work for Microsoft. Feel free to google me up if you want to.

It's so very refreshing to see these kind of threads that go against the myopic Internet masses and and comes with an original opinion - or rather - a well-founded and not overly biased and jaundiced opinion.

This current wave of, well, straight out hatred for the Xbox One is an overreaction, but it's still damaging. It's depressing seeing users on various forums being bullied just for admitting to planning to buy an Xbox. The gaming community is like a reactionary mob - one opinion and no original thinking. Right now the mob is trending to hatred of Microsoft, tomorrow it'll be trending to hatred of something else, perhaps even Sony when their next inevitably dick-move has happened.

What's worse is the way the parasitic game "journalism" takes advantage to this and writes headlines such as "How Sony defeated Microsoft - the final blow", designed to appeal to the mob (and get hits).

It's sad for sure. But, you know, looking at it optimistically, Microsoft is selling their XBox pretty well right now and many people won't care a single bit about what these angry mobs think. As much as I love reddit, they've done the same stuff and all their angry mobs failed by being wrong or simply not working. These people sometimes think they have more power than they do.

Even with the positives that Microsoft does have going for it, the negatives are absolute deal breakers for many people. I don't hate the Xbone, I'm wishy-washy about it, and I think some people are a wee bit paranoid about the Kinect spying thing, though with reason with all the privacy scandals breaking out right now.

Most of the shitty stuff won't be much of an inconvenience for me, especially since I won't be getting the console at launch, guaranteed, but it will be for a lot of people. Microsoft has a lot to do before they can win the majority of their customers back, and it's going to take a lot of work. So, no, the Xbone isn't as bad as most people are making it out to be, but there is still a lot of bad shit going around with it that really grinds people's gears.

You're right, they do have some problems. Many of them thanks to rumors (which were created by a little weird marketing, that's Microsoft's thing lately apparently, haha), but some of them, like the 24h limit one, are serious. People affected by these problems should definitely not buy an XBone so far. They should just play the waiting game and get one as time comes around.
But, as I said, things can change and Microsoft will be willing to put more work into it. Glad to see some neutrals around though, as those have the most insightful comments sometimes.

There's no reason to have a 24 hour check in time that is in the favor of the consumer. It is a horrible policy that we all hate at any rate, so that's one bad thing about it. Then they force you to connect your games to an account, making it to where it's like a digital store. To be fair, as a digital store policy, that's a pretty good one allowing for games to be shared and even given to friends. However, this is a console, not a PC, and so we don't want to see it shift from a console style market where the physical copies reign supreme. With the PS4, I will be capable of giving my games to friends if I want, sharing them if I want, playing it offline for longer than a day if I damn well want. With the Xbone, I would have to go through Microsoft and the publishers to do all this, and I couldn't play it offline for longer than a day either way. And on top of all this, they force you to have a camera that is always on as long as the console is, making the price $100 more. So, with all that in consideration, with the hardware being fairly close with these two consoles, there are far more negatives on the Xbone than on the PS4, so, by comparison, the Xbone is the crappier of the two consoles. And by general standards of policies, it's one of the worst consoles so far.

I can just repeat my prior statement, neither of the consoles is worse or better. Especially not now, the consoles aren't even released yet.
I've talked about most of your arguments further up in this post, so just read it through if you want. A few of the things you mentioned are problems, but many aren't too much.