Why try hard is an insult
- Thread starter kongajinken
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If you play in any multiplayer game that has team based gameplay you are fully expected in online matches to be an asset to your team. Under no circumstances when you use "matchmaking" or any kind of automated service should you NOT be an asset to your team. Especially since they now make matchmaking services match players with and against those of similar skill level which IMO is bullshit. If you want to fuck around and not learn or get better at the game then play custom private games/servers with friends. You ruin other people's fun and time not being able to hold your own. Play with bots first before stepping foot online.
Nice write-up, but I think at the end of the day, it's all just human beings being human and interacting.
For example: a group of friends and I used to get together on a weekly basis for some casual fighting game fun. It was all very laid-back, and we were mostly there to drink beers, eat snacks, talk smack, and have a laugh. There was one among our group, however, who could be classified as a Try Hard. He would always pick the best characters (most of us just went random), and try to crush his opponent. At some point, we just kind of looked at him and said "dude, we're just having fun. Maybe dial it back a bit?". To which he replied "yeah, but I'm having fun when I win".
See, no one was right and no one was wrong there. The point of fighting games is to win, after all, and the argument could be made that he was the only one doing it right. But the rest of the group was just there to goof around, and he was kindda ruining some people's fun.
Also, I should point out that a lot of things you describe as Try Hards just sound like people being assholes.
For example: a group of friends and I used to get together on a weekly basis for some casual fighting game fun. It was all very laid-back, and we were mostly there to drink beers, eat snacks, talk smack, and have a laugh. There was one among our group, however, who could be classified as a Try Hard. He would always pick the best characters (most of us just went random), and try to crush his opponent. At some point, we just kind of looked at him and said "dude, we're just having fun. Maybe dial it back a bit?". To which he replied "yeah, but I'm having fun when I win".
See, no one was right and no one was wrong there. The point of fighting games is to win, after all, and the argument could be made that he was the only one doing it right. But the rest of the group was just there to goof around, and he was kindda ruining some people's fun.
Also, I should point out that a lot of things you describe as Try Hards just sound like people being assholes.
To me tryhard = pretentious.
Someone that considers their actions to be a lot more important and meaningful than they actually are.
Trying too hard to get recognition or admiration from people.
"A young man trying to impress beyond his abilities. Too much spice, too, um... too many notes."[footnote]Was that Amadeus quote an example of me trying too hard?[/footnote]
Someone that considers their actions to be a lot more important and meaningful than they actually are.
Trying too hard to get recognition or admiration from people.
"A young man trying to impress beyond his abilities. Too much spice, too, um... too many notes."[footnote]Was that Amadeus quote an example of me trying too hard?[/footnote]
have a similar scenario/group thing, in the exact same scenario.johnnybleu said:Nice write-up, but I think at the end of the day, it's all just human beings being human and interacting.
For example: a group of friends and I used to get together on a weekly basis for some casual fighting game fun. It was all very laid-back, and we were mostly there to drink beers, eat snacks, talk smack, and have a laugh. There was one among our group, however, who could be classified as a Try Hard. He would always pick the best characters (most of us just went random), and try to crush his opponent. At some point, we just kind of looked at him and said "dude, we're just having fun. Maybe dial it back a bit?". To which he replied "yeah, but I'm having fun when I win".
See, no one was right and no one was wrong there. The point of fighting games is to win, after all, and the argument could be made that he was the only one doing it right. But the rest of the group was just there to goof around, and he was kindda ruining some people's fun.
Also, I should point out that a lot of things you describe as Try Hards just sound like people being assholes.
We have that one try hard....who just has to intervene and make sure no one else can play casually.
Typically, we play super smash brothers (melee or brawl), and we dink around with which items to turn on and off to mash it up a bit, and we almost always pick a stage that changes alot or has lots of areas (that hyrule temple map,pokemon stadiums,etc..)
but that friend? oh no, he has a fit whenever we don't turn off items and don't play on final destination, and then he'll nearly always insist on using the bloody cheapest combos among top tier characters. We use to play stock but then he would just hide/dodge/block until most of us had waded off a few lives here and there, and then he would swoop in to attack and "win" just because he was the last one left, so we've just done it on a timer ever since so he'll actively participate otherwise be left behind in the score.
The hilarity one time of him grabbing a hammer (he hates items, but will use the power items if it means him winning) and me playing Ike, I one hit-KO him with my smash move sword swing that gave me the win, and he throws the controller down in one of the best rage quits I've ever had the privilege of witnessing.
many people probably scratch their head and wonder why he is invited or why we're friends with him..we try not to disclude others, and he's actually pretty chill when we aren't playing games, he just has to be in ultra serious try-hard mode when playing games apparently.
Yeah the try hard in my examples did kinda come off as just an all around unpleasant person. I think that might be because from a team perspective, you can't really have a try hard on your team unless they are rude. If someone on your team is good, that just means your happy because your odds of winning go up.johnnybleu said:
Your friend example is actually what I would define as the truest example of a try hard. Sure he may have been having fun, but it was ruining it for the rest of you.
At least in my experience (I have been guilty of this as well), I would consider a tryhard somebody who plays the game a certain way without fully understanding why they are doing so, usually because a well-known or professional players has popularized it. Certain examples I can think of are "netdecking" in trading card games or copying certain item builds, plays or team comps in MOBAs. The players in question see the success these strategies have, but typically do not understand why they work, or rather, why they are not necessarily guaranteed to work in any given situation.
Of course, this is only made worse if the mindset of the player is offensive. Trying to pull off these "pro" plays in casual games and getting upset over it is one example.
Of course, this is only made worse if the mindset of the player is offensive. Trying to pull off these "pro" plays in casual games and getting upset over it is one example.
This is precisely how I feel about team-based games.albino boo said:
I take no issue with anyone wanting to play a game casually. I don't even care if they're playing the same game as I am, in the same match that I'm in, and they're playing casually or just joking around. More power to 'em, I say. Go nuts. I do the same most of the time, and as long as we're all having fun, keep at it.
However...
If your "mucking about" is having an adverse affect on the gaming experience of the other players on your team, then you've crossed a line. You're not longer "just having fun", you're being an ass; whether you're aware of it or not.
I don't always expect the utmost determination or effort from myself when gaming online. What would be the point? I'm playing to have fun. It's escapism. As a result, I don't expect anyone else to "give it their all" either. But, if you just want to faff about, and your faffing will negatively affect the others on your team, just do them a favor and play alone or play something else. Everyone ends up happier that way.
And frankly, I levy the same request to all 'try-hards'. Your overeager, over-competitive zeal to play at your best at all times should not extend to your fellow players. Nor should it excuse you from being rude to them either.
So do them a favor and play alone. Or maybe just go read a book and relax a bit.
I only play aram or special game modes in league. There are far fewer tryhards there, and when they show up they get ganged up on by everyone else in the match, which is hilarious. Before I stopped playing normal games, I had amazing fun trolling tryhards. It was even better when I ended up doing better than them.
Exactly, there are plenty of modes you can play where it's completely fine to dick around. Ain't no point in doing it in one of the modes that the competitives have laid claim to.the doom cannon said:
Basically, I'm of the opinion that the one who is in the minority is in the wrong, when it comes to something in which your participation is voluntary. You can generally expect more tryhards in 5s than elsewhere, so if you run counter to that, it's on you. In dominion or ARAM, they're the ones at fault.
In the instance where a team has one try-hard, one slacker, and three "normals", they're clearly both making the experience worse for the normals, because spamming vitriol is tiresome, but I'd say it's something like a 60-40 split, with the majority going to the slacker. All else being equal, it's a safe assumption that people prefer winning to losing, and therefore I'd argue that the person who's trying to win is less at fault, if only just a little.
Personally, when it comes to ranked, I give them enough rope to hang themselves. I always state my preference, but offer to "fill". I figure if they're God's gift to gaming like they seem to think they are, clearly their mad skills will make up for my mediocrity in a role I play less often. If not, the onus is on them; if they want to lose less, maybe they should learn more than one role.
Think about that one guy in a wow battlegrounds who thinks he's in charge of everyone and eventually devolves into abusing everyone when we lose.
Hate the term myself. Not everyone is good enough to play a game professionally, but does that mean you aren't allowed to try to play the game to win? I always am competitive when I play games, but I am nowhere good enough to play in any sort of team, clan, etc, for any game. So, no, I can't go play MLG if I want to try hard. Does that mean that I should just chill out and play everything like I don't care?
The word lost all meaning for me after spending a couple weeks on a TF2 server where you were declaired a "try-hard" if you did... well, anything. Got a kill with the grenade launcher? Being highest on the scoreboard by at least two points? Have a positive kill-to-death ratio?! (gasp! the horror!) Some nasally sounding voices on mic would go on about how much of a ~try-hard~ you are, bitter that someone was playing better than them.
I take it about as seriously as "your mom" insults nowadays because of a bunch of kids on a TF2 server. Thanks, TF2!
I take it about as seriously as "your mom" insults nowadays because of a bunch of kids on a TF2 server. Thanks, TF2!
Personally I don't see a point in insulting anyone, regardless of playstyle, skill level or attitude. I simply ignore assjacks as a rule, help those who ask for it, while sometimes giving pointers or reporting events that need to be given more attention and generally attempt to make each experience as pleasant as possible. It doesn't always work out but I prefer diplomacy over outright negative feedback.
Insults don't get anyone anywhere and on a team based game just divides the team instead of fostering an inclusive spirit. There are some people, yes, who screw around during matches just to be assholes. I don't give them attention because that seems to be what they want. Like Leeroy tanks in WoW who just aggro the boss then quit the dungeon/raid (usually in RF or DF). Best bet is to not get angry and wait for a more competent person.
Its fine if a few people are so bored of a game that they seek to create their own fun, I just feel sorry for those that think teammate's discomfort is entertaining.
Beyond that I don't need insults to get a point across.
Insults don't get anyone anywhere and on a team based game just divides the team instead of fostering an inclusive spirit. There are some people, yes, who screw around during matches just to be assholes. I don't give them attention because that seems to be what they want. Like Leeroy tanks in WoW who just aggro the boss then quit the dungeon/raid (usually in RF or DF). Best bet is to not get angry and wait for a more competent person.
Its fine if a few people are so bored of a game that they seek to create their own fun, I just feel sorry for those that think teammate's discomfort is entertaining.
Beyond that I don't need insults to get a point across.
The use of the term "tryhard" is obnoxious. While not all mean it this way, it is quite literally the gaming equivalent of "sour grapes."
Now, I did read the OP's post and I sympathize with overly competitive people in games trying to tear down newer players. This is particularly prevalent in competitive team games like LOL and DOTA2 or 2v2/4v4 pub SC2. However, that does not mean those people are "tryhards." To try hard has meaning. Words have meaning. To try hard is never a bad thing and should never be characterized as such.
There is already an existing word for these type of people who tear down newer, less experienced players:
"Assholes"
Unfortunately, "tryhard" is being used not only to characterize jerks who attack less experienced players, but also to act as a "feelings forcefield" for all the special little snowflakes out there who lose at video games. "Oh, I lost? Damned tryhards, I was just messing around. You're bad people for beating me." Mommy told them that winning wasn't everything and that everyone is a winner and special. Now that reality has smacked them with a "You Lose" screen, they can't handle it and blame the rest of the world for their failure. I see this almost as much as I the flaming jerks in Dota2 rage at people who don't drop a ward in the exact moment and place that they want it for their l33t Pudge mid-lane fail.
Let's stop inventing new terms for people where they already exist and demonizing otherwise good traits, like "trying hard" to be good at something.
For the assholes, let's continue to call them just that: assholes.
For the special little snowflakes, let's all encourage them to realize that they didn't lose because of a "tryhard" but because they themselves should actually try hard to not be terrible or, otherwise, not play a team game while making no effort to help the team.
Now, I did read the OP's post and I sympathize with overly competitive people in games trying to tear down newer players. This is particularly prevalent in competitive team games like LOL and DOTA2 or 2v2/4v4 pub SC2. However, that does not mean those people are "tryhards." To try hard has meaning. Words have meaning. To try hard is never a bad thing and should never be characterized as such.
There is already an existing word for these type of people who tear down newer, less experienced players:
"Assholes"
Unfortunately, "tryhard" is being used not only to characterize jerks who attack less experienced players, but also to act as a "feelings forcefield" for all the special little snowflakes out there who lose at video games. "Oh, I lost? Damned tryhards, I was just messing around. You're bad people for beating me." Mommy told them that winning wasn't everything and that everyone is a winner and special. Now that reality has smacked them with a "You Lose" screen, they can't handle it and blame the rest of the world for their failure. I see this almost as much as I the flaming jerks in Dota2 rage at people who don't drop a ward in the exact moment and place that they want it for their l33t Pudge mid-lane fail.
Let's stop inventing new terms for people where they already exist and demonizing otherwise good traits, like "trying hard" to be good at something.
For the assholes, let's continue to call them just that: assholes.
For the special little snowflakes, let's all encourage them to realize that they didn't lose because of a "tryhard" but because they themselves should actually try hard to not be terrible or, otherwise, not play a team game while making no effort to help the team.
As far as I'm concerned, people shouldn't expect high level play from public servers unless the server is designated as a serious play place. If you go into a public TF2 server and start yelling at people for doing poorly, you're just a jerk. If you want to take it seriously, play in a more competitive environment. Like, in League, I don't take games too seriously unless I'm playing ranked. Of course, it's a team game and one round lasts for a while, so I do expect my teammates to at least be trying to win instead of just goofing off.