Why wasn't Kingdom of Amalur as praised as Skyrim or Dragon Age?

bjj hero

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Digi7 said:
Are you really saying KoA is better than Dark Souls? Fuck, I mean that's your opinion, but JESUS is it misguided. Dark Souls combat is MEANT to be simple and slow, it's not about jumping around spitting sparkles from your magic sword. It's a methodical, more realistic boxing match between you and the enemies/environment, COMPLETELY different from the combat in KoA or any of those games you mentioned. It also takes brains and planning, not just mashing each ability as it comes off cooldown. And no, the game isn't as hard as it is hyped up to be, but in a market of games for dipshits that hold your hand through everything it's still a refreshing breath of air, and worth talking about.

If you think the atmosphere is the only good thing about Dark Souls you are very misguided. It's fantastic in its gameplay, aesthetic, design, amount of depth, the bosses, the enemies, locations, the characters and story. Far better than anything else I've seen in the past few years, and many would be inclined to agree with me.
And many would disagree. I boughtDS on sale for £6, if Id bought it at full price I would have been deeply disappointed. I liked the atmosphere but everything else was lacking. Ill start by sayingI dont do guides and try to get through things by myself. Thats why I thought shields were boken and didnt use them forthe first 10 hours or so. I went straight to the graveyard and found bog standard, generic fantasy skeletons would kill me whether I blocked or not. There were no indicaters I shouldnt be there until much higher level so guessed shields werent up to much in this game.

Combat was a joke. The enemies could be taunted out 1 at a time to be easily dispatched. Most of the enemies didnt need hitting because I could wait until they jumped off cliffs instead. Even drakes that can "fly" were coaxed into falling to death. Plenty of boss enemies would happily sit there while I kill them with 300 arrows. This is short of fantastic for monsters combat and bosses. Most of the ambushes only work because the camera is awful. That town on stilts was awful, Id get chopped up while the camera showed me a board.

Story was weak too. So you are a charecter with no history, backstory, interests, voice, culture, no reason you learned magic/fighting etc... you wake up in a cell then escape. You end up in a magical land where some guy youve never met and have no reason to believe says if you ring 2 bells something might happen. Is this what passes for story now? The world is good. If you take time to read everything its engaging but the story is garbage.

So to me the world and atmosphere were great. The rest was lacking.

I may give KOA a look though.
 

RyQ_TMC

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Phoenixmgs said:
RyQ_TMC said:
Being able to remap your entire character through Fateweavers was also a bad, bad idea.
Why? Respeccing should be a standard feature for every RPG. You don't have to respec if you don't want to, I don't see how that is hurting your play experience.
Bypassing levels should be a standard feature for every platformer. You don't have to bypass if you don't want to, I don't see how that is hurting your play experience.

Setting dialogue options on autopilot like in ME3 should be a standard feature for every dialogue-heavy game. You don't have to autopilot if you don't want to, I don't see how that is hurting your play experience.


More options is not always better. You can totally ignore Fateweavers, just as I did. But the existence of that option devalues the experience. A big part of RPGs is that as your character progresses, you make choices on which abilities and skills to improve. Once you make those choices, they stay with you. They have gameplay consequences. Do you improve your weapon skill to fight better with the gear you have, or do you improve your lockpicking, so you can steal better gear? Do you take an ability consistent with your character concept, or do you select a more useful one, not really fitting with it? Every choice opens some new options at the expense of others, that's an important part of the RPG experience. Deus Ex: HR got quite a bit of flack because you could max out all your enhancements before the end of the game, for example.

Putting in an option to completely respec your character makes your choices meaningless. Any time you encounter an obstacle you cannot surpass due to lack of some ability, you can run back to a Fateweaver and respec. Then respec back to your standard playstyle. Character progression, the defining feature of computer/console RPGs, is devoid of value.

So yeah, you don't have to take advantage of Fateweavers. But their existence in the gameworld means that you're fully aware that you don't have to face the consequences of your choices, that all of the choices you've considered every time you gained a level can be made meaningless with one flip of a switch.
 

Battenberg

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Aug 16, 2012
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It's nowhere near the level of Skyrim for me for the opposite reason the OP has for liking it - the combat. I went down the rogue path as well but found the game to be quite a slow starter meaning that I essentially had to play as a warrior for a long time before there was any use being a rogue. I think this was due to the fact that enemies were always in groups OR bosses that had already seen you meaning trying to play as a rogue (my favourute class in most RPGs) wasn't much of an option most of the time. It certainly didn't help that you level SUPER gradually (even if frequently initially) which left me wondering how you could play the game as anything other than a hack and slash to begin with.

I think visually the game has a great style BUT it was more than a little reminiscent of Fable (an issue that was present with a lot of the game), not that that's a bad thing but it does make the game seem a little less original. And yes, RPG's core stories aren't typically great but that's no excuse for other RPG's continuing that tradition and in that respect you certainly can't give the game praise for its story, it is perhaps a little better than the average RPG but that doesn't make it better than the average game.

The one thing I do slightly I agree with the OP on is the difficulty - hard was about the right level of challenging for me although IMO the game needed something beyond this difficulty (I really don't see it as tougher than Dark Souls). I did inititally try normal to test out the difficulty as I normally do and it played more like easy mode on a lot of other games (I dread to think how ridiculously easy the actual easy mode is), although I must admit I didn't play too far in and perhaps it would have been tougher later on. Given that, in my experience, RPG players tend to prefer more of a challenge than the average gamer I think overall it really isn't tough enough.

Between all these things I would say it's still a decent game but not exceptional in any way, probably around a 6.5/10, maybe a 7 at most if you wanted to put a number on it but it just doesn't have enough kick to it for me to think of it in the same league as a powerhouse like Skyrim.
 

jetriot

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Kingdom of Amalur was great in my opinion but was not as good a Skyrim and Dragon age. Why? Its about what is important to RPG enthusiasts. Story, exploration, character development, loot and interesting environments. A good combat system is great, but not good enough to carry an RPG with the typical RPG crowd.
 

Ragsnstitches

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bjj hero said:
Digi7 said:
Are you really saying KoA is better than Dark Souls? Fuck, I mean that's your opinion, but JESUS is it misguided. Dark Souls combat is MEANT to be simple and slow, it's not about jumping around spitting sparkles from your magic sword. It's a methodical, more realistic boxing match between you and the enemies/environment, COMPLETELY different from the combat in KoA or any of those games you mentioned. It also takes brains and planning, not just mashing each ability as it comes off cooldown. And no, the game isn't as hard as it is hyped up to be, but in a market of games for dipshits that hold your hand through everything it's still a refreshing breath of air, and worth talking about.

If you think the atmosphere is the only good thing about Dark Souls you are very misguided. It's fantastic in its gameplay, aesthetic, design, amount of depth, the bosses, the enemies, locations, the characters and story. Far better than anything else I've seen in the past few years, and many would be inclined to agree with me.
And many would disagree. I boughtDS on sale for £6, if Id bought it at full price I would have been deeply disappointed. I liked the atmosphere but everything else was lacking. Ill start by sayingI dont do guides and try to get through things by myself. Thats why I thought shields were boken and didnt use them forthe first 10 hours or so. I went straight to the graveyard and found bog standard, generic fantasy skeletons would kill me whether I blocked or not. There were no indicaters I shouldnt be there until much higher level so guessed shields werent up to much in this game.

Combat was a joke. The enemies could be taunted out 1 at a time to be easily dispatched. Most of the enemies didnt need hitting because I could wait until they jumped off cliffs instead. Even drakes that can "fly" were coaxed into falling to death. Plenty of boss enemies would happily sit there while I kill them with 300 arrows. This is short of fantastic for monsters combat and bosses. Most of the ambushes only work because the camera is awful. That town on stilts was awful, Id get chopped up while the camera showed me a board.

Story was weak too. So you are a charecter with no history, backstory, interests, voice, culture, no reason you learned magic/fighting etc... you wake up in a cell then escape. You end up in a magical land where some guy youve never met and have no reason to believe says if you ring 2 bells something might happen. Is this what passes for story now? The world is good. If you take time to read everything its engaging but the story is garbage.

So to me the world and atmosphere were great. The rest was lacking.

I may give KOA a look though.
I thought the indicators were pretty obvious. If one skeleton is capable of killing you with little effort, and you walk into an area crawling with them, I would consider that an indication that I'm not supposed to be there. You're lucky you didn't find New Londo first, you would have thought weapons don't work at all.

I've never heard of someone abandon a mechanic so early but considering the game it isn't a total loss. Ironically, abandoning the use of shields early probably prepared you better for fighting some of the more aggressive and hard hitting enemies in the late game and for PvP combat.

Kitting is a legitimate mechanic for dealing with particularly tough encounters. Heck, entire zones in the game actively encourage it and set up enemy formations to reward caution by kitting. There is one area where, when you access it, the first thing you see is something like 20-ish greater demons (the bridge boss from early game). The game is screaming at you not to rush in. However, the game throws you a curveball every so often and traps you into group combat.

The real issue with kiting is that most enemies have limited aggro range and, when they reach it, become docile momentarily when they return to their original position. That is a huge issue with kiting and well to easy to exploit in certain areas.

Killing enemies like that usually means exploiting pathing and geometry conflicts. While it's a flaw in design, most are usually so arbitrary that to find them without a guide is a lucky fluke. However, it's common knowledge that such exploits detract from a game... they aren't features, yet people use them as such then complain that the game is worse for it. Not to take away from the valid criticism that it is flawed design, but it is your own actions that spoil it for you, the devs didn't make you use it over and over again.

Blightown is the town your thinking of and it has a host of issues that make it the worst area, which is unfortunate since it really nails the oppressive and dread filled atmosphere. Unless your playing on pc with performance mods, you also have significant drops in framerate which makes controls sluggish and combat unwieldy. This framerate issue makes PVP in this area non-existent as it also lags to fuck resulting in constant disconnects. You will never find other players PVPing here.

Isn't that how ambushes usually work? If they weren't exploiting a weakness in your perception then it wouldn't be an ambush. How would an ambush work if you are capable of seeing it in advance? The purpose of ambushes in the game is to keep you on your toes. Multiple playthroughs diminish this impact, but at that point you would be prioritising PVP elements for the sake of leveling, which ramps up the difficulty significantly.

Story is garbled and thinly spread. People say it's good, but it isn't, it's mostly average... it does, however, have a rich lore to uncover. But the story is just for context and atmosphere, nothing more then that. If by story we are talking about the overarching plot that is meant to drive the player forward at least.
 

Raikas

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Phoenixmgs said:
In the initial post, I said KoA's combat is probably the best of any action RPG ever, there's its outstanding aspect. In RPGs, you spend so much time fighting enemies and if that aspect isn't good, then the game isn't that good either. The Elder Scrolls games have no outstanding bits to me.
You said your piece about combat, but then you had multiple responses from people talking about the combat being too easy - and when it comes to a question about why a game isn't generally praised, the general opinion is what matters. Same thing with thinking that Skyrim (or the entire Elder Scrolls series) is bland - it's a fair opinion, but you can see why people are attracted to the size and the environments, right?

Obviously personal tastes vary - for myself, I thought Dark Souls was boring - but I can see what attracts other people to it, y'know? I loved Dragon Age 2, but I don't wonder why people shit on it, because I can see where it failed them. And again, I actually thought KoA was decent, but "decent" isn't usually enough to get people out there singing its praises (although I do think it came out at a bit of a crowded time, so some of it may be as basic as the release date - a different time and maybe it would have generated more buzz).
 

joest01

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I downloaded KoA as it was free on PSN+ and I enjoy Spawn so McFarlane is a recommendation.

I deleted it after playing for an hour or two.

The combat seems cool enough at first. You have a roll. You can block. But as as been mentioned above, there is no weight to your attacks. There is very little timing involved. And even when fighting groups of enemies there is no real sense of danger.

And it just didn't keep my interest. Gameplay or story wise.

And in terms of the Dark Souls comparison. You cannot be serious. There is level design. Timing. A combat engine that is so fine tuned it could be used for tournaments. Well, maybe thats a stretch but it sure is leaps and bounds ahead of KoA.
No, just no...
 

TheEvilCheese

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Dec 16, 2008
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tehroc said:
I see this is one of those threads. The OP states his opinion and then asks others for theirs. If the OP doesn't get the answer it wants, it proceeds to tell you how you are wrong.

It's a single player MMO. MMOs only saving grace is the fact that they are supposed to be massively multiplayer. I already played WOW for over 5 years. KOA is not better then WOW. If I want to play a WOW-like game, I'll just go play WOW.
This.

Knowing quite a lot about the games OP is comparing KOA to, he seems to be wildly exaggerating the decent aspects and avoiding the fundamental design flaws.

KOA has alright combat at first, but as you go on it becomes soul-shatteringly easy and dull. The quests for the most part are just sub-wow levels of MMO fodder. The world looks nice but has little substance.

No game is underrated / overrated. It is liked by a person as much as they like it and is entirely subjective. Everything I just said about KOA? Subjective. If most people disagree with you that doesn't make it underrated, you just have a different taste to them.
 

Something Amyss

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Phoenixmgs said:
I'm playing Kingdom of Amalur (KoA) now because it was made free to PlayStation+ members, and the game is just amazing. I really don't get why KoA wasn't loved as much or more than Skyrim, Dragon's Age, or even Demon's/Dark Souls.
Skyrim, DA and DS were beloved for specific reasons.

Skyrim is beloved for its freedom. You can chop wood for days if you want.

Dragon's Age was beloved because it was "oldschool."

Dark/Demon's Souls were beloved because they were considered incredibly hard.

KOATR wasn't filling any niches. It could be the superior game, but without the market it's just not going to be received as such.

jehk said:
The combat was wwaaaaaaayyy to easy for me even on hard mode. It could have been really good with an added difficultly level.
I always love the fact that people complain it's so easy when so few completed the game on hard.

Windcaler said:
Lets start with mechanics, my first and only character was a Dokklfar pure mage and the thing that drove me crazy was the mages dodge mechanic had a delay on it before he actually dodged. In a game so heavily designed around avoiding hits this made playing my character nearly impossible for bosses.
I honestly don't know what you're talking about here.

Zhukov said:
It didn't have the exploration of Skyrim or the characters of Dragon Age.
I struggle to find anyone in Dragon Age to call a "character" in any but the loosest sense. Far as I can tell, the only thing DA has that KOA:LA doesn't is more recurring cardboard standups.
 

JazzJack2

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bjj hero said:
And many would disagree. I went straight to the graveyard and found bog standard, generic fantasy skeletons would kill me whether I blocked or not. There were no indicaters I shouldnt be there until much higher level so guessed shields werent up to much in this game.
The fact they ganked you should be a pretty clear indicator.

Most of the enemies didnt need hitting because I could wait until they jumped off cliffs instead.
Nonsense most of the enemies in the game aren't even near ledges/cliff-faces so how could you lure 'most' of them off?


Plenty of boss enemies would happily sit there while I kill them with 300 arrows. This is short of fantastic for monsters combat and bosses.
As far as I am aware you can't do that to a single boss in the whole game.

Story was weak too. So you are a charecter with no history, backstory, interests, voice, culture, no reason you learned magic/fighting etc...
Perhaps if you payed attention you'd know your character most certainly had backstory, history, culture and a reason to learn fighting/magic.

You end up in a magical land where some guy youve never met and have no reason to believe says if you ring 2 bells something might happen.
Did you even manage to ring the bells to actually see what happens?


Admittedly the more direct elements of storytelling are minimal but that adds to it's charm and think overall the story ends up as a rather beautiful allegory for transience, fate and death. Far more interesting than most stories in videogaming in my opinion.
 

Alcamonic

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I generally found it to be enjoyable. Sure, the combat was a tad easy at time, but at least it had a decent crafting system.
Only fault was that it was too much to do, like no end in sight even after a good 50+ hours.
 

jehk

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Zachary Amaranth said:
jehk said:
The combat was wwaaaaaaayyy to easy for me even on hard mode. It could have been really good with an added difficultly level.
I always love the fact that people complain it's so easy when so few completed the game on hard.
I didn't complete the game at all. It was just too boring even on hard mode. I downloaded a memory editing mod that reduced the amount of damage enemies took and increased how much damage I took. It helped but was a pain to deal with. I felt it had a lot of potential however.
 

Robert Marrs

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The game felt like an mmo without other people. The quests were not that exciting and I found myself skipping through dialogue just so I could finish the game. It's also way to easy even on hard difficulty. Its not a terrible game, just not a great game either.
 

Skrimmy

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It was really easy for me (save for one part where I got stuck fighting 3 tree monsters) and that took away a lot of the fun for me. The NPCs, even the vital ones, seem to have little to no personality and the quests were usually just monotonous. I did enjoy it though, but less for the story and gameplay and more for the art style.
 

thefascistpig

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I thought it was pretty good too only thing I will say about it though is that I play it for the combat and crafting aspects and not the story or world
 

Drummodino

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Jan 2, 2011
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I just didn't like it very much. I picked it up for free from PS Plus and played it for about two hours before getting bored. The art style was okay and the combat seemed quite fun.

But the conversations were so fucking boring! It's like they tried to go for a Mass Effect style but without voicing the main character - which just led to boring exposition dump characters blabbering on about crap you don't care about while staring at your ugly lifeless mug.

The game just didn't grab my interest the way games like Skyrim do. The atmosphere was very lacking - at no time did I feel immersed in the world. I didn't care about any of the characters, the quests felt like busywork and it just felt like a slog. Skyrim, Dark Souls, Fallout, Mass Effect etc. all had fascinating worlds that you wanted to explore and learn more about. They had interesting characters (well maybe not Skyrim). They all encouraged and rewarded exploration. KoA didn't have any of that in my opinion.

Therefore I believe it was an inferior game.
 

Rob Robson

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KoA was extremely mediocre... That is about it. Lacking any of the depth found in the games you try to compare them to (depth of world and lore in Skyrim and depth of combat in Dragon Age: Origins)

It was competent. (For an MMO rushed to be turned into a single player RPG at the last second) But that's about it. The only shallower RPG in recent years was Dark Souls 2.

For me, an MMO without competition is nothing at all. Zero.
 

thehorror2

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Because 38 Studio's financial troubles drowned out any positive press the game had, which squashed the forward momentum the franchise built up. It's a pity, because (some horrible instances of bad voice acting aside) it was one of the most interesting action-RPGs I've ever played.
 

Benni88

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BloatedGuppy said:
Phoenixmgs said:
Dark Souls is all about the combat, and KoA beats Dark Souls at what Dark Souls is supposed to be all about, KoA is even a harder game to boot. That's why I brought up Dark Souls.
Wut? No it most certainly isn't.

And Dark Souls is NOT all about the combat. It's all about the ATMOSPHERE. Every single bloody thing in that game goes to service the main strength, which is the ATMOSPHERE. It gives Pripyat a hard run as one of the most atmospheric games of all time. The combat, frankly, is more than a little janky.

All that said, to answer your OP, KoA did not receive the same acclaim as Skyrim, Dark Souls or Dragon Age: Origins because it's nowhere near as good as any of those titles. It's a fun, slightly underrated action RPG with lots of polish and flair and a lamentable amount of bland flab...a casualty of Curt Schilling's everlasting hard on for Everquest and inability to keep MMO mechanics from slipping into a single player game (where they really have no business being). If it was a tighter, more focused experience it might have been received better. But it wasn't, so it wasn't, and now Curt is broke, and Amalur is a footnote in history and a cautionary example of how not to run your business.
I have to agree with this. The games which you were comparing KOA to are, for the most part, heavily stylised. Whereas KOA, although having some nice particles and skill effects, doesn't really have a style of it's own. It's just a bit, meh...