Wii U Manufacturer Admits to Hiring Illegal Underage Workers

[Sutter Cane]

Foxconn doing something unethical? Color me not surprised in the slightest. This is totally in character for them.

 

[OldNewNewOld]

And the Escapist staff shows again that it's biased against Nintendo.

It's fucking Foxconn who hired the kids. Not Nintendo. And saying WiiU manufacturer implies it's only Nintendo.
Foxconn makes stuff for Microsoft, Apple, Sony, Nintendo, Acer, Dell, Nvidia, Nokia and many more. So why single out Nintendo? Because we are on the Escapist. No wonder that people make jokes about escapist's game "journalists".

Fox news is asking for it's journalists back.

 

[Scars Unseen]

So why can't people in developing nations just be have good jobs? Oh right, because you can get away with it as long as it's not OUR people you're mistreating. So in the end it all comes back to profit: Human rights don't matter, because they should be grateful to be working at all.

No, what you are claiming isn't the case. Let's assume China did magically and drastically improve the jobs though and raised salaries and cut hours. The first thing that would happen is the cost of production would skyrocket. That means the cost to the consumer would skyrocket as well. Either that, or these companies would have to find another factory to produce their products.

The first option of increasing prices would likely put these companies out of business. I don't know about you but I don't think I'd buy a 10,000 dollar TV, a 1500 dollar PS3 and a 2000 dollar cell phone. Very few people would. As a result the company would have to close up shop and all those jobs with fair wages and reasonable hours would be lost leaving millions on the street.

The other alternative is that these companies would find a new manufacturer. Well in this scenario, again, all the good jobs with fair wages and reasonable hours would be lost as production moved to a different country.

It's not out of sheer greed that companies use places like Foxconn. It has a lot to do with the fact the consuming public only has so much money and they wouldn't be able to stay in business selling their products at a price required to provide people in developing countries with good jobs and reasonable wages as their products simply wouldn't sell because all but the incredibly wealthy would be unable to afford them.

While I don't argue the jobs at places like Foxconn are horrible they are also the best that can be done given the circumstances. It's unfortunate to be sure but it would be even more unfortunate to have millions of Chinese people jobless, homeless, and starving.

Annnnd that's the thread, folks.

 

[l3o2828]

Guys, escapist isn't biased against nintendo, you are just just a very whiny fan.

 

[cerebus23]

The Wii-U: Made by children, for children.

A winning ad campaign if i ever saw one. spin (aka lies) are everything,

 

[Ken Sapp]

Translation of the majority of outraged posters: Waaahh!!! This third world country doesn't have the same high standards of living and employment as my first world nation!!11!1

This is how many of the present first-world countries managed to go from largely agrarian societies to modern industrial societies. It does not excuse the conditions which is why many of them at some point went through workers rights upheavals which established things we take for granted such as "fair" pay scales, labor rights, overtime rights, human rights, etc. . .

Part of the reason that labor is so cheap is that the choices of work tend to be backbreaking farm labor which is rapidly requiring less actual manpower (and therefore fewer people) to perform the same amount of work thanks to modernized farming methods and long hours in unskilled factory labor positions for which there are dozens if not hundreds of people waiting to get in to each job.

Meanwhile, we in the first world want our products cheaper than it would be feasible to produce anywhere other than in third-world sweatshops. And very few businesses could survive trying to accede to the consumers demand that they not use third-world labor to produce their goods as most of their customers would go to their competitors once their prices increased to reflect the increased cost of production for doing all their business with "acceptable" domestic labor.

Over time the third-world countries of today will become first-world countries with first world labor policies and laws and the cost of doing business there will be same as to do it in any other first world country. Eventually there will be no third world countries left or we will all be back to being third world countries. It is all horrible while it is taking place but so far no one has managed to make the leap from pre-industrial to post-industrial society without going through the "sweatshop" phase.

 

[Scars Unseen]

Translation of the majority of outraged posters: Waaahh!!! This third world country doesn't have the same high standards of living and employment as my first world nation!!11!1

This is how many of the present first-world countries managed to go from largely agrarian societies to modern industrial societies. It does not excuse the conditions which is why many of them at some point went through workers rights upheavals which established things we take for granted such as "fair" pay scales, labor rights, overtime rights, human rights, etc. . .

Part of the reason that labor is so cheap is that the choices of work tend to be backbreaking farm labor which is rapidly requiring less actual manpower (and therefore fewer people) to perform the same amount of work thanks to modernized farming methods and long hours in unskilled factory labor positions for which there are dozens if not hundreds of people waiting to get in to each job.

Meanwhile, we in the first world want our products cheaper than it would be feasible to produce anywhere other than in third-world sweatshops. And very few businesses could survive trying to accede to the consumers demand that they not use third-world labor to produce their goods as most of their customers would go to their competitors once their prices increased to reflect the increased cost of production for doing all their business with "acceptable" domestic labor.

Over time the third-world countries of today will become first-world countries with first world labor policies and laws and the cost of doing business there will be same as to do it in any other first world country. Eventually there will be no third world countries left or we will all be back to being third world countries. It is all horrible while it is taking place but so far no one has managed to make the leap from pre-industrial to post-industrial society without going through the "sweatshop" phase.

Well since developed nations use a metric shit ton more resources per capita, the real problem is that there's no more room for developed nations (or for the amount we have now, really) unless there's a massive push towards sustainable development. Since that will likely only happen once our current way of doing things stops working (i.e. when it's already too late to do anything about it), we're more or less fucked already.

First world problems indeed.

 

[Mortuorum]

Wait, they had to hire underage workers... because there is a shortage of unemployed adults in China? The country with the largest labor force in the world?

Yeah. Foxconn didn't want to pay even the lousy wages they pay their regular workers, so they had a local school send over teens to work for essentially nothing. Nice company.

 

[Ken Sapp]

Wait, they had to hire underage workers... because there is a shortage of unemployed adults in China? The country with the largest labor force in the world?

Yeah. Foxconn didn't want to pay even the lousy wages they pay their regular workers, so they had a local school send over teens to work for essentially nothing. Nice company.

Or they may have been unable to find sufficient labor in the geographic area it was needed in. IIRC, most of China's population is still spread throughout more agrarian townships, not heavily concentrated in its cities as it is in countries like the US.

 

[Notsomuch]

We're off to a good start.

 

[antipunt]

So why can't people in developing nations just be have good jobs? Oh right, because you can get away with it as long as it's not OUR people you're mistreating. So in the end it all comes back to profit: Human rights don't matter, because they should be grateful to be working at all.

No, what you are claiming isn't the case. Let's assume China did magically and drastically improve the jobs though and raised salaries and cut hours. The first thing that would happen is the cost of production would skyrocket. That means the cost to the consumer would skyrocket as well. Either that, or these companies would have to find another factory to produce their products.

The first option of increasing prices would likely put these companies out of business. I don't know about you but I don't think I'd buy a 10,000 dollar TV, a 1500 dollar PS3 and a 2000 dollar cell phone. Very few people would. As a result the company would have to close up shop and all those jobs with fair wages and reasonable hours would be lost leaving millions on the street.

The other alternative is that these companies would find a new manufacturer. Well in this scenario, again, all the good jobs with fair wages and reasonable hours would be lost as production moved to a different country.

It's not out of sheer greed that companies use places like Foxconn. It has a lot to do with the fact the consuming public only has so much money and they wouldn't be able to stay in business selling their products at a price required to provide people in developing countries with good jobs and reasonable wages as their products simply wouldn't sell because all but the incredibly wealthy would be unable to afford them.

While I don't argue the jobs at places like Foxconn are horrible they are also the best that can be done given the circumstances. It's unfortunate to be sure but it would be even more unfortunate to have millions of Chinese people jobless, homeless, and starving.

Stop saying bullshit please.
&st you have no prove that a TV or console would cost that ,uch in that situation. Then you arent looking into the economy as a whole and you ignore lots of stuff, like, if they had to sell at that price, no one would buy it, then they'd need to find an alternative. Everything is connected in an economy? it's not that simple.

I find this whole exchange/concept rather intriguing, but God, I have no idea what's actually true. Both sides seem to have logical merit

(not saying which one is right 'morally', but which one is right logically)

 

[Xanthious]

1st you have no prove that a TV or console would cost that much in that situation. Then you arent looking into the economy as a whole and you ignore lots of stuff, like, if they had to sell at that price, no one would buy it, then they'd need to find an alternative. Everything is connected in an economy? it's not that simple.

Oh they'd find an alternative all right. They'd set up shop in another third world Hell hole where they could produce their goods at a cost that is in line with what they had previously been accustomed to in China. Maybe it would be Mexico. Maybe India. Maybe any number of places that are filled to capacity with cheap labor.

If people truly want to do what is best for the Chinese people then forcing first world working conditions onto the factories isn't what they should be looking at. The only thing that forcing higher pay and a better work environment would accomplish is to drive the companies that are employing millions of Chinese citizens out of the country and as a result leave millions of people jobless.

What is best in the long term for the Chinese people is to let their economy evolve naturally. Right now, it's in a state of flux and in time conditions will improve on their own. Do they suck now? You bet they do. However, the alternative to the millions of jobs in these factories that can kindly be described as sweatshops are no jobs at all. There is no quick fix. Right now they are in the middle of some pretty bad growing pains but those too shall pass and when they do the Chinese people and economy will be better off for it.

 

[Strazdas]

Trust me fella, nobody is forcing those people to work there. They can't line up fast enough to get jobs at places like Foxconn. Sure it's ungodly long hours, working conditions I wouldn't wish on anyone, and just an overall horrible work environment but ya know what? It sure as hell beats starving homeless on the streets.

oh really?

Chinese labor rights activists claimed that the teens were sent to the factory by their schools, who in turn threatened to deny students subject credits and graduation diplomas if the students refused to work.

 

[Saucycarpdog]

So why can't people in developing nations just be have good jobs? Oh right, because you can get away with it as long as it's not OUR people you're mistreating. So in the end it all comes back to profit: Human rights don't matter, because they should be grateful to be working at all.

No, what you are claiming isn't the case. Let's assume China did magically and drastically improve the jobs though and raised salaries and cut hours. The first thing that would happen is the cost of production would skyrocket. That means the cost to the consumer would skyrocket as well. Either that, or these companies would have to find another factory to produce their products.

The first option of increasing prices would likely put these companies out of business. I don't know about you but I don't think I'd buy a 10,000 dollar TV, a 1500 dollar PS3 and a 2000 dollar cell phone. Very few people would. As a result the company would have to close up shop and all those jobs with fair wages and reasonable hours would be lost leaving millions on the street.

The other alternative is that these companies would find a new manufacturer. Well in this scenario, again, all the good jobs with fair wages and reasonable hours would be lost as production moved to a different country.

It's not out of sheer greed that companies use places like Foxconn. It has a lot to do with the fact the consuming public only has so much money and they wouldn't be able to stay in business selling their products at a price required to provide people in developing countries with good jobs and reasonable wages as their products simply wouldn't sell because all but the incredibly wealthy would be unable to afford them.

While I don't argue the jobs at places like Foxconn are horrible they are also the best that can be done given the circumstances. It's unfortunate to be sure but it would be even more unfortunate to have millions of Chinese people jobless, homeless, and starving.

I suggest you look at Zombie Moogles post right above you. If you think the chinese prefer having Foxconn to living on the streets, why are so many of them killing themselves?

I wish someone, anyone, could just open a manufacturing plant in china that has a least a little fairer working conditions and higher pay. That would make workers abandon Foxconn and go there instead.

 

[Xanthious]

I wish someone, anyone, could just open a manufacturing plant in china that has a least a little fairer working conditions and higher pay. That would make workers abandon Foxconn and go there instead.

Those things cost money though and even if a plant did open with those things you listed companies wouldn't use it and it would ultimately go out of business. You think Microsoft or Apple or Nintendo will eat the extra cost associated with paying higher wages and a better work environment? They won't.

Right now the only realistic options for the Chinese people are Foxxconn and their ilk or living on the street. It sucks for everyone to be sure but it's the reality of things. It sucks for the workers for having to work there and it sucks for Foxconn because they are unable to improve conditions lest they risk losing clients who are unwilling to pay the extra cost associated with doing so.

The real unfortunate part is that I don't think either Foxconn or their clients are operating this way because of greed or malice but rather they are both making the best of a bad situation. Eventually though, things will evolve and improve for the Chinese workers who suffer the most as a result of the whole ugly situation. Sadly, that change isn't coming anytime soon though and right now it's the sweatshop or the street.

 

[Alandoril]

This is why you do not outsource manufacturing simply because it's cheaper...there are reasons the profit margins it yields are so high. This is one of them.

It amazes me that companies are shocked by this, they are well aware of the kind of people they are dealing with.

 

[Alandoril]

I wish someone, anyone, could just open a manufacturing plant in china that has a least a little fairer working conditions and higher pay. That would make workers abandon Foxconn and go there instead.

Those things cost money though and even if a plant did open with those things you listed companies wouldn't use it and it would ultimately go out of business. You think Microsoft or Apple or Nintendo will eat the extra cost associated with paying higher wages and a better work environment? They won't.

Right now the only realistic options for the Chinese people are Foxxconn and their ilk or living on the street. It sucks for everyone to be sure but it's the reality of things. It sucks for the workers for having to work there and it sucks for Foxconn because they are unable to improve conditions lest they risk losing clients who are unwilling to pay the extra cost associated with doing so.

The real unfortunate part is that I don't think either Foxconn or their clients are operating this way because of greed or malice but rather they are both making the best of a bad situation. Eventually though, things will evolve and improve for the Chinese workers who suffer the most as a result of the whole ugly situation. Sadly, that change isn't coming anytime soon though and right now it's the sweatshop or the street.

Any company that wouldn't factor in the extra cost of providing decent pay and conditions doesn't deserve to be operating. There are reasons there are international labour laws. You either obey them or you face the consequences of breaking them, both humanitarian and PR-wise.

The situation wouldn't be the way it is, if Western companies weren't so insanely greedy, and so hell bent on making profit that they are repeatedly willing to practically enslave people so the CEOs can enjoy a "jet-setter" lifestyle.

 

[Alandoril]

1st you have no prove that a TV or console would cost that much in that situation. Then you arent looking into the economy as a whole and you ignore lots of stuff, like, if they had to sell at that price, no one would buy it, then they'd need to find an alternative. Everything is connected in an economy? it's not that simple.

Oh they'd find an alternative all right. They'd set up shop in another third world Hell hole where they could produce their goods at a cost that is in line with what they had previously been accustomed to in China. Maybe it would be Mexico. Maybe India. Maybe any number of places that are filled to capacity with cheap labor.

If people truly want to do what is best for the Chinese people then forcing first world working conditions onto the factories isn't what they should be looking at. The only thing that forcing higher pay and a better work environment would accomplish is to drive the companies that are employing millions of Chinese citizens out of the country and as a result leave millions of people jobless.

What is best in the long term for the Chinese people is to let their economy evolve naturally. Right now, it's in a state of flux and in time conditions will improve on their own. Do they suck now? You bet they do. However, the alternative to the millions of jobs in these factories that can kindly be described as sweatshops are no jobs at all. There is no quick fix. Right now they are in the middle of some pretty bad growing pains but those too shall pass and when they do the Chinese people and economy will be better off for it.

There is a solution that is very quick and easy: force the companies to stop being greedy.