Wikileaks

[debramster123]

who do you think is right in the case wikileaks VS government?

i personnally think that the goverments are allowed to keep documents for theirselves. not everything is ment for civilian eye's.

but thats my opinion so let me know yours!

EDIT: i ment some files are not ment for civilians eyes. also wikileaks is kind of destroying world relationships. but the goverment should not keep everything secret i agree on 1 side but disagree on the other side.

UPDATE: wikileaks is going to be hosted by xs4all. in amsterdam. ( i am not sure yet if its a copy or not )

OPINION EDIT: i did some more research and watch some talkshows. i came to the conclusion that i see no other way then to side with wikileaks.

UPDATE 8th december: wikileaks supporters get to mastercard servers offline. OPERATION PAYBACK

''!AND EXCUSE ME FOR MY GRAMMER!''

 

[Ashcrexl]

i've always been a huge supporter of total free speech, EXCEPT when whatever it is causes great harm. wikileaks seems to be trying to destroy relationships between countries, so that is a huge problem.

 

[JoJo Bizzaro 7]

You know, this is the first Wikileaks related thread I have seen on the Escapist. I am very disappointed, really. However, I can't say that I am all that surprised given the nature of the community here.

Anyway, I personally believe that all people are entitled to any and all information of any kind- classified or otherwise. However, people are also entitled to hide said information to any degree they want. Once that information is leaked, it is no longer classified. Continuing to call it classified is completely asinine and ridiculous.

 

[Wadders]

I dont really see what it's trying to achive to be honest.

Apart from destroy vital international relationships that is...

 

[Gigano]

While I sympathize with the open source philosophy in regard to governance, and see the ideological appeal in playing with open cards under constant democratic control, it's an imperfect world, and thus some degree of secrecy must be maintained in military and diplomacy.

Governments could probably stand to classify far less than they do, but complete openness is not practically feasible.

 

[debramster123]

To say that "It is not for Civilians eyes" is the same as accepting that you live in slavery, a goverment that watches you.

i understand where you are coming from on this. but i dont mean all things on wikileaks are bad. like last time the showd a vital communication line between holland and the united states ( i live in holland ) the marked the exact places of those things. just feelin a lil exposed because of THOSE kind of things. i hope you understand

 

[ComicsAreWeird]

I think that some things arent meant to be known. I sure wouldnt like to get my personal intel leaked to the world, i guess everybody has the right to keep secrets. Wikileaks can and will harm relations between countries and that cant be good.

 

[debramster123]

You know, this is the first Wikileaks related thread I have seen on the Escapist. I am very disappointed, really. However, I can't say that I am all that surprised given the nature of the community here.

yea i saw a small thread with like 4 replies under ''politics'' so i tought i put it in this subject of forum to get a lager chunk of the community to see it

 

[MassiveGeek]

I think that it's juvenile and immature of the governments to be uttering insults and whining about other countries and their authority figures behind everyones back.
And I'm amused at their panicked reactions as everything they've said is revealed to the whole, wide world.

However, this is obviously taking a strain on the countries relations and shit, because so much information was leaked at once(from how I get it, they mention a new thing every day in the newspaper from wikileaks) and that isn't really a good thing. However, I think the leaks will be positive in the end, because the governments need to stop faffing about.

 

[JoJo Bizzaro 7]

I think that the misconduct that the goverment has done should come to light. Yes! And the way the American goverment reacts by trying to obviously frame Assange shows what kind of people we are dealing with. And that our Western Society needs to be more open and honest about their mistakes.

You make an excellent point, but I feel I must correct you on one point- The American/Western government is pulling for the criminalization of Assange, yes, but it is the European governments that are the ones that are actively sabotaging him and Wikileaks as a whole (Freezing bank accounts, filing arrest warrants, etc.) America is just demonizing the man and wikileaks, not actively destroying it.

 

[debramster123]

Wikileaks can and will harm relations between countries and that cant be good.

exactly!

 

[debramster123]

I think that it's juvenile and immature of the governments to be uttering insults and whining about other countries and their authority figures behind everyones back.
And I'm amused at their panicked reactions as everything they've said is revealed to the whole, wide world.

However, this is obviously taking a strain on the countries relations and shit, because so much information was leaked at once(from how I get it, they mention a new thing every day in the newspaper from wikileaks) and that isn't really a good thing. However, I think the leaks will be positive in the end, because the governments need to stop faffing about.

a vital communication line between holland and US got leaked i live very close to that line in holland. do we now see this as a possible terrorist target? opinion please

 

[debramster123]

To say that "It is not for Civilians eyes" is the same as accepting that you live in slavery, a goverment that watches you.

i understand where you are coming from on this. but i dont mean all things on wikileaks are bad. like last time the showd a vital communication line between holland and the united states ( i live in holland ) the marked the exact places of those things. just feelin a lil exposed because of THOSE kind of things. i hope you understand

But is that a reason to side with the goverments?

Example;
In Sweden we passed a law that allows the goverment to peak on what we're doing, blaming it "We need to be able to read what you write in your emails and that so we know you aren't Russian spies".

wait the goverment over there is cheking your email? that sux dude

 

[hawkeye52]

things that governments should stand up for and take the blame i.e. the autorised killing of people who are clearly civillians should be allowed into the public forum since its not behaviour that our society should promote even within war. however logistical and tactical information should not be freely available as it compromises missions and soldiers lives

 

[JoJo Bizzaro 7]

However, this is obviously taking a strain on the countries relations and shit, because so much information was leaked at once(from how I get it, they mention a new thing every day in the newspaper from wikileaks) and that isn't really a good thing. However, I think the leaks will be positive in the end, because the governments need to stop faffing about.

Actually, the strain on relations between governments pales in comparison to the unions formed between countries formed when the UN cables were leaked.

 

[debramster123]

However, this is obviously taking a strain on the countries relations and shit, because so much information was leaked at once(from how I get it, they mention a new thing every day in the newspaper from wikileaks) and that isn't really a good thing. However, I think the leaks will be positive in the end, because the governments need to stop faffing about.

Actually, the strain on relations between governments pales in comparison to the unions formed between countries formed when the UN cables were leaked.

you are a wise man

 

[MassiveGeek]

I think that it's juvenile and immature of the governments to be uttering insults and whining about other countries and their authority figures behind everyones back.
And I'm amused at their panicked reactions as everything they've said is revealed to the whole, wide world.

However, this is obviously taking a strain on the countries relations and shit, because so much information was leaked at once(from how I get it, they mention a new thing every day in the newspaper from wikileaks) and that isn't really a good thing. However, I think the leaks will be positive in the end, because the governments need to stop faffing about.

a vital communication line between holland and US got leaked i live very close to that line in holland. do we now see this as a possible terrorist target? opinion please

I-I'm sorry, I don't understand what you're talking about... ^^'
A "communication line"? A terrorist target?
I don't get it. *Slow*

 

[Sleepingzombie]

My thoughts on wikileaks are something like: Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? or who watches the watchmen?. I like having something that can dig up things gouverments need to answer for, but my dilemma is that, it needs to be done carefully.

 

[Woodsey]

i've always been a huge supporter of total free speech, EXCEPT when whatever it is causes great harm. wikileaks seems to be trying to destroy relationships between countries, so that is a huge problem.

All they've really done so far is release snippets of dialogue where governments dis each other behind closed doors. So what? Everyone knows they do it, and none of them have exactly been revelations.

The only one I've heard about so far that's mildly questionable is one that contains facilities across the planet that are "important to America's infrastructure" or something like that, and even then, many of the buildings seem inconsequential, and others are just obvious targets anyway.

It's really not as serious as people are making out. There's stuff that embarrasses heads of state, but that's about it.

 

[Nietz]

I like what Wikileaks does... or did. A government should never keep secrets from its people. In a perfect world, everyone should be held accounted for what one does, even governments. Information should always be free, no matter how incendiary it is. I can't really say that Julian Assange and Wikileaks is the one to blame here, they just blew the whistle. It was the government that started with covering up.


What scares me is what is going to happen after this. Governments all over the world will surely restrict internet access and monitor its people more carefully. I doubt that there is one government out there that doesn't have skeletons in their wardrobe. And this could lead to further restrictions for citizens. And before you know it, big brother is watching! War is peace! Freedom is slavery! Ignorance is strength!

....Yes, I've been called paranoid before. But just think about it. Who says what is allowed and not? What happens when the system that monitors citizens is used to monitor citizens habits, policies and ideas? What happens when some government starts to outlaw behaviour or thoughts?
[EDIT]

wait the goverment over there is cheking your email? that sux dude

Not only that, any email that passes through Sweden or phonecall and so forth are registered as well.
And why are they doing this?

To catch Filesharers. Not to catch terrorists, not to catch murderurs, not to catch rapists, but those who dare to share files online.
Because it is a wellknown fact that those who share files through torrents are such a threat to the capitalistic future compared to someone who just chases young girls away and kills them.

I feel compelled to point out that the Swedish government is actually doing this. But it's not as bad as it seems.... right now. Today they are only scanning for words through filters to find "hot" e-mails and phone calls. So regular mails and call usually pass by fine. But one they'll probably scrutinize everything. And yes, the file sharing as well. Surely that is more rumour than anything. But one would be a fool to not use this tool(heh, rhyme) in that way if one did get paid an ass-load by some companies.