Will Joe Biden Drop Out of the Presidential Race

lil devils x

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Every rape you think is documented in the court suffers the same flaws as Reade. Except the one that was stolen shot for shot from an SVU episode. Not even entertaining that one.

It's a lot of women who claim Trump did something sexually aggressive with them and then ended up reconnecting with him later. If that makes you doubt the claims against Biden, why does that not make you doubt the claims against Trump?
Uh no it really is not. Trump coming home in a rage over a bad hair treatment and violently ripping out his wife's hair and raping her and then paying her a crap ton of money to play nice and raise their children like a good mum while he keeps the green flowing her way is not in any way the same thing as Tara Reade's situation... That was the mother of Trump's kids. Trump's trying to rape his business partner in Ivanka's bedroom and then holding their business contract ransom to get her to drop it, her story never changed. She didn't seek out the media, they sought her out after finding the records and trump opening his big mouth. Trump has a long list of accusations and of people he paid off to keep quiet. Not just one person who claims there is no record of it because she made accusations but those accusations do not match the accusations she decided to change immediately after she found out her candidate she wanted to win was beat out by Biden. Not the same thing at all.
 
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lil devils x

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Honestly, this is the same sort of thing republicans were saying about kavanaugh. I mean, we've now called her a liar, accused her of making up the allegations to get bernie elected, and painted biden as an innocent victim. Based on what? Him not being a court documented rapist? Of course not, this didn't go to court. She didn't press charges. Which is extremely common for victims of rape. But because she won't take him to court now, during the middle of an election, against a candidate she hates, she must be lying. I really thought that the Metoo era had fixed this culture of victim blaming, but I see I was mistaken. It's rampant in both parties.

I'm not even saying that she is guaranteed to be telling the truth, or that biden is guaranteed to be lying. But the claims deserve to be taken more seriously then this. People are refusing to believe the claims because they they're inconvenient, and in some cases, saying that they'll vote for biden even if they *are* true.
Ford didn't seek publicity for years promoting her story then change her story as soon as the guy she wanted to win didn't win. Ford didn't want to go public at all, she wrote a letter in confidence as a " just to let you know" and was then pressured to go public. She was not seeking public attention at all here. Tara Reade was trying to get anyone she could to push her story before she even changed it, just no one was all that interested until she added the rape accusation a little over a month ago.

Who has painted Biden as an innocent victim? Calling him a Gollum that should have been kicked in the nuts isn't exactly calling him innocent.
"Me too" isn't about promoting your story online and then changing it because it didn't sell the first way. "Me too" is about telling the truth, that does not necessarily even mean that everyone who said they didn't get that sort of vibe to then retract that and change it to "He raped me" instead is telling the truth. Changing the story to contradict itself is not making it more true. She did make charges, she just said something else entirely happened. What is extremely common for rape is to not report it at all, not take it upon herself to report it and then report something else entirely happened. Not believing her has nothing to do with who she is accusing. I would love nothing more than for the DNC to pull Biden. I can't stand him, but trying to take him out with one shoddy accusation that numerous media sources already felt was not credible even before she changed it isn't how you do that. She changed her story. She promoted Biden repeatedly and voted for Biden for years after this supposedly happened. That is why so many actual rape victims do not support her either. It is accusations like this that make it harder for actual rape victims.
 
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tstorm823

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In terms of the Republicans, both Bush presidents are reputed to have had extramarital affairs, and also Reagan (who by at least one accusation had also committed rape, albeit possibly pre-Nancy). Numerous people who knew Nixon believe he had a mistress. Gerald Ford and Eisenhower at least, I'm not aware of anything. As said, pre-war, very likely anywhere between most and all.
I know of no accusations against W. Bush. HW Bush disputed claims of an affair, but even then it was only ever a claim that he was with one other woman, rather than a reputation of a philanderer. When Reagan allegedly raped a woman, he was a registered Democrat.
 

tstorm823

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Uh no it really is not. Trump coming home in a rage over a bad hair treatment and violently ripping out his wife's hair and raping her and then paying her a crap ton of money to play nice and raise their children like a good mum while he keeps the green flowing her way is not in any way the same thing as Tara Reade's situation... That was the mother of Trump's kids. Trump's trying to rape his business partner in Ivanka's bedroom and then holding their business contract ransom to get her to drop it, her story never changed. She didn't seek out the media, they sought her out after finding the records and trump opening his big mouth. Trump has a long list of accusations and of people he paid off to keep quiet. Not just one person who claims there is no record of it because she made accusations but those accusations do not match the accusations she decided to change immediately after she found out her candidate she wanted to win was beat out by Biden. Not the same thing at all.
The accusation by Ivana didn't go to court because she pressed charges. They were in court because they allegedly happened while they were in divorce proceedings. You don't think there might be an ulterior motive to that? You can't imagine a reason to think an accusation of misconduct might turn up during divorce and then be largely retracted once the divorce was granted?

The business partner contacted Trump's campaign for a job in 2016. You think if she believed he was trying to rape her, she'd volunteer to work for his presidential campaign?

You're not being consistent.

c) Is that just speculation?
No. That's from Ford's hearing itself. She went to her Congressional representation saying that Kavanaugh assaulted her, and she didn't want to go through a public ordeal, she just wanted to let people know before they approved him.

She was then advised to get a lawyer, recommended the Democrats' own lawyers, who in turn told her not to talk to the FBI, had her do a lie detector test, and turned down an offer on her behalf to do a witness interview privately instead. By Ford's own testimony, she really just wanted to inform those checking his background and stay out of the public eye, and she ended up outed and forced into the public by Democrats who wouldn't let the official investigations get to her.
 
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lil devils x

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The accusation by Ivana didn't go to court because she pressed charges. They were in court because they allegedly happened while they were in divorce proceedings. You don't think there might be an ulterior motive to that? You can't imagine a reason to think an accusation of misconduct might turn up during divorce and then be largely retracted once the divorce was granted?

The business partner contacted Trump's campaign for a job in 2016. You think if she believed he was trying to rape her, she'd volunteer to work for his presidential campaign?

You're not being consistent.
Ulterior motive? More like part of what was leading to the divorce. The business partner was not who made it public, Trump did. Why did Trump think about it to open his mouth if it didn't happen? Yea, I do think he tried to rape her because she was just trying to move on and put it behind her, she was not seeking publicly as Tara Reade has been and promoting the everchanging story as much as she has. Trump's business partner was pretty pissed he brought it up at all and disrupted her life after she had already moved on. You are not even comparing the same things due to Trump's business partner just wanting people to leave her alone about it while he was drawing attention to it with his foot in his mouth.

Then of course you have the list of 25+ women who have accused him of sexual misconduct, Trumps grabbing women by their genitals and kissing them without permission comments didn't exactly show his innocence here.
 

tstorm823

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Ulterior motive? More like part of what was leading to the divorce. The business partner was not who made it public, Trump did. Why did Trump think about it to open his mouth if it didn't happen? Yea, I do think he tried to rape her because she was just trying to move on and put it behind her, she was not seeking publicly as Tara Reade has been and promoting the everchanging story as much as she has. Trump's business partner was pretty pissed he brought it up at all and disrupted her life after she had already moved on.
You misunderstand. It wasn't "he raped me therefore I want a divorce". It was "he raped me while I was filing for the divorce".
 

crimson5pheonix

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Trump showed that a Republican could do that. The Democrats absolutely do not have to follow suit; electing Joe Biden normalizes Trump.
Don't say things that are right, that's wrong. The only way to beat republicans is to be republican.
 
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lil devils x

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You misunderstand. It wasn't "he raped me therefore I want a divorce". It was "he raped me while I was filing for the divorce".
Usually a lot of bad things happen before it builds up to the point of taking it that far. She was divorcing him and stated she had not had sex with him in 16 months prior, she testified under oath here. His wife and mother of his children testifying under oath is a pretty big difference. He paid her a lot to stop bringing it up.
 

lil devils x

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Don't say things that are right, that's wrong. The only way to beat republicans is to be republican.
The only way to beat a republican in a post truth society is with a republican. Fixed that for you.
 

crimson5pheonix

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We did, but the winner of the popular vote didn't win the last election either.
Because they weren't popular outside of 2 states. Seriously, what Seanchaidh said, you don't have to mimic the republicans to win, in fact you would do better not mimicking republicans. It's why Joe Biden needs to drop out.
 

lil devils x

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Because they weren't popular outside of 2 states. Seriously, what Seanchaidh said, you don't have to mimic the republicans to win, in fact you would do better not mimicking republicans. It's why Joe Biden needs to drop out.
Didn't Clinton win like 17 states, not 2?
We still have to win swing states to win the general election and Bernie didn't even get the delegates to do so.
You have to be able to win these states to win the General Election, Sanders just didn't have the support he needed in the states we need it in. He had less support, not more after Trump won. Trump winning seems to have hurt Bernie more instead of shifting more voters his way.
 

crimson5pheonix

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I would say a big problem this election was the Coronavirus, since Bernie told people to be safe and Biden said to go vote during a pandemic. And I'm just going to point out again that Hillary lost formerly very blue states that were supposed to be safe, because she was awful and unpopular. And the country will only shift right if Trump's opponents shift right. They don't have to. The dems don't have to go right because of Trump. And no amount of apologism for a senile rapist is going to get people out to vote.
 

lil devils x

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I would say a big problem this election was the Coronavirus, since Bernie told people to be safe and Biden said to go vote during a pandemic. And I'm just going to point out again that Hillary lost formerly very blue states that were supposed to be safe, because she was awful and unpopular. And the country will only shift right if Trump's opponents shift right. They don't have to. The dems don't have to go right because of Trump. And no amount of apologism for a senile rapist is going to get people out to vote.
The biggest obstacle for Bernie besides going up against corporate money is that he depends so much on the youth vote. The Youth vote is the most difficult to get to the polls in the first place, easily distracted and if it appears to be a hassle they just won't bother. That is the problem in swing states, if they show up and see a long line, they often go find something better to do instead. When we are dealing with the sheer level of voter suppression obstacles that Republicans have been putting into place, we need the youth vote to suddenly become less fickle, otherwise our only chance to take swing states is targeting the elderly because they always turn out. Even though the youth were the least at risk from COVID-19, t and the elderly risked death by coming out, he elderly still turned out more than the youth. That is not a good sign. AT ALL.

I still feel that the disinformation campaign against Hillary was the biggest factor in the 2016 election, as we still have people pushing stories that were provably false years later. You can make any candidate unpopular by making up a bunch of lies about them and spreading them around and having people believe them. ( Like how one highly questionable accusation against Biden suddenly turning into 3 rape victims for example) She had it worse than most though because there were plenty of old conspiracy theories going on about her long before she ever ran for president so they just grabbed those and added to them. No matter who democrats run, they will still have the same disinformation campaign used against them just as it was done to Hillary. Many expected Bernie to be the nominee this time, thus why I have seen so many Bernie Nazi proaganda all over the place, and that was just the lead up, not even the worst of it yet.
 

crimson5pheonix

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The biggest obstacle for Bernie besides going up against corporate money is that he depends so much on the youth vote. The Youth vote is the most difficult to get to the polls in the first place, easily distracted and if it appears to be a hassle they just won't bother. That is the problem in swing states, if they show up and see a long line, they often go find something better to do instead. When we are dealing with the sheer level of voter suppression obstacles that Republicans have been putting into place, we need the youth vote to suddenly become less fickle, otherwise our only chance to take swing states is targeting the elderly because they always turn out. Even though the youth were the least at risk from COVID-19, t and the elderly risked death by coming out, he elderly still turned out more than the youth. That is not a good sign. AT ALL.
Hillary's been done to death so I'll actually drop her. All I'll say is my opinion of her hasn't changed in 4 years. My only modern opinion about her is that if they try to make her VP or replace Biden with her, it will be a spectacular suicide for the DNC.

The elderly risked Covid to vote because their man told them it was fine. And the elderly in general don't believe in Covid. And I just want to point out Obama came in on a huge wave of youth support, that was immediately lost when he started legislating. The youth will come out to vote in a general if you pick someone who they want to vote for.

Biden is not that man.
 

Worgen

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Whatever, just wash your hands.
I know of no accusations against W. Bush. HW Bush disputed claims of an affair, but even then it was only ever a claim that he was with one other woman, rather than a reputation of a philanderer. When Reagan allegedly raped a woman, he was a registered Democrat.
There are plenty of accusations of HW being an ass grabber.

I don't know of any regarding Bush Jr though.
 

lil devils x

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Hillary's been done to death so I'll actually drop her. All I'll say is my opinion of her hasn't changed in 4 years. My only modern opinion about her is that if they try to make her VP or replace Biden with her, it will be a spectacular suicide for the DNC.

The elderly risked Covid to vote because their man told them it was fine. And the elderly in general don't believe in Covid. And I just want to point out Obama came in on a huge wave of youth support, that was immediately lost when he started legislating. The youth will come out to vote in a general if you pick someone who they want to vote for.

Biden is not that man.
That is not even remotely true about the elderly. Most of the elderly believe in the COVID-19 threat and many of them have lost loved ones due to their group being the highest risk, they also know many of the people actually dying here personally. I have been helping arrange care package drop offs here locally for elderly who should not leave their houses right now and they really are afraid right now and have good reason to be. It isn't the elderly storming the Michigan protesting the lockdown here.

The youth vote did not turn out for Bernie when it counted though. :/ I am not convinced they will turn out when we need them most either way, and if they do not, the only route to win is recruiting the elders.
 

crimson5pheonix

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That is not even remotely true about the elderly. Most of the elderly believe in the COVID-19 threat and many of them have lost loved ones due to their group being the highest risk, they also know many of the people actually dying here personally. I have been helping arrange care package drop offs here locally for elderly who should not leave their houses right now and they really are afraid right now and have good reason to be. It isn't the elderly storming the Michigan protesting the lockdown here.

The youth vote did not turn out for Bernie when it counted though. :/ I am not convinced they will turn out when we need them most either way, and if they do not, the only route to win is recruiting the elders.
It's the aged that are calling for reopening the country, it skews older.

Just like the republican party, so I don't think trying to take the republican base will work for democrats. Personally I find the idea silly. Especially when that youth vote is a huge chunk of the voters so far in the primary and they don't like the sound of 'vote blue no matter who'.
 

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Ford didn't seek publicity for years promoting her story then change her story as soon as the guy she wanted to win didn't win. Ford didn't want to go public at all, she wrote a letter in confidence as a " just to let you know" and was then pressured to go public. She was not seeking public attention at all here.
It's a good thing I'm not questioning Ford.

Tara Reade was trying to get anyone she could to push her story before she even changed it, just no one was all that interested until she added the rape accusation a little over a month ago.
So you think she's lying? I'm not against the idea. She should take Biden to court immediately. But you and I both know that that could potentially be disastrous for his campaign, even if he is innocent. So are you ok with that? Reade apparently isn't, since she's not a trump supporter. Presumably that would be strong incentive for her to not press charges. Just like in 2008, when he was vice president. Or before that, when he was running against republicans in senate races. You keep saying that she's changing her story, implying that she's unreliable. But what I don't understand is what she possibly has to gain from this, especially now that he's the only candidate. How does she benefit? I see incentives for her to avoid pressing charges, but I don't see any incentives for her to speak out.

Who has painted Biden as an innocent victim? Calling him a Gollum that should have been kicked in the nuts isn't exactly calling him innocent.
You said in the other thread that he didn't deserve this. So either you think he's innocent, in which case why does he deserve a kick in the nuts, or he's guilty, in which case, why should we vote for him?

"Me too" isn't about promoting your story online and then changing it because it didn't sell the first way. "Me too" is about telling the truth, that does not necessarily even mean that everyone who said they didn't get that sort of vibe to then retract that and change it to "He raped me" instead is telling the truth.
So you do think she's a liar? I mean, it's not uncommon for victims of sexual assault to react this way, especially if they're abusers are powerful, and especially if the incident was 30 years ago. When you factor in the fact that the person is running for office under a platform you support, the situation is even more complex.

I'm actually curious. Let Ignore the rest of this for a moment. Lets pretend for a moment that Biden is absolutely, 100% guilty, should we vote for him or not?