Will we ever be without currency?

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In a Utopia built on absolute trust, then, yes, currency as we know it will become obsolete. In a future where we have truly infinite resources (perpetual energy and food/water supplies and maybe even luxuries), then yes, I can see it happening. The very first step is to abolish the system of haves and have-nots. Since if YOU discovered a source of perpetual energy, won't you jump at the chance to monetize it?

But we all know that is next to impossible. Besides, for all its (literal) worth, the invention of Currency actually changed the course of history, otherwise, your PS4 will probably be worth 4 chickens and a cow. Or 4 cows and a Chicken. Or 3 Pigs. Or..... You get the idea.

 

[Doom-Slayer]

You seem to have a flawed idea of a what a replicator does, there are no external raw materials for a replicator.

I was going to do a long post but this is actually really easy to disprove.

All energy production requires an input of something and then is converted to something else, and energy is outputted. What is the most perfect method of this possible? Where something is inputting, and turned into PURE energy with no byproduct.

As in converted matter to pure energy. And then what does the replicator do? Turns energy into matter. So for your 1 ounce of fuel, you make 1 ounce of replicated identical material(less or more if you make something different, and in actual fact less since the conversion wont be perfect). And here we arrive back at my original point, you need somewhere to get these raw materials or fuel from.

Fuel has to come from somewhere, and you could pump matter fuel of heat and turn it into plasma, etract that THEN convert it to pure energy, but that makes no difference. Fuel is something everyone needs, and someone needs to go get it, and if everyone needs it, they will charge for it.

Likewise blueprints, entertainment, services like repairing and inventing and improving system, all of these things you cant make with a replicator. Someone has to have the knowledge to do them, and they will want something in return, or what motivation will they have to do it.

The one big problem is that replicators are not isolated all creating entities. They require things in order to work, in order to stay repaired, and you wont neccessarily have those things, other people will. And because of that currency will always exist as long as we need other people to achieve things we cannot.

 

[Abomination]

Not possbile, even with infiniate resources because that doesn't mean infinite SERVICES. People's time is valuable and currency is simply an agreed upon method to measure value.

Your time will always be valuable and thus there will always be a need for currency.

 

[babinro]

No.

Even if society completely breaks down we'd resort to a barter system which is still essentially currency. Humanity seems to greedy to every allow a Star Trek style society to become a reality.

The closest I could envision is a form of communism that simply eliminates the economy but doesn't give the individual true freedom. A minimum wage job would allow the individual to access only basic needs while a surgeon would be given a lot more privileges to mimic the societal differences that money creates.

 

[FPLOON]

Unless we gain the ability to create matter, we will always need currency.

What if instead of a form of physical currency... it's a form of emotional currency? Or at least a form of intangible currency?

Sure, it may cause a new form of belief that only a selected generation would try to leach onto as well as try to expand it further throughout time, but it can be possible... I guess...

But, yeah, it's still a form of currency... and currency is not going away anytime soon... It might evolve over time, but currency is still currency... unless Webster says otherwise...

We already have a form of intangible currency, most money in the world is being kept track of (or exists entirely) in digital form, which is intangible.

True... But, that type of intangible currency is still based on the current tangible currency... If bitcoins, for example, do become the universal currency in tune to our current tangible currency, then it will be the first intangible currency to be recognized globally as actual currency... and not just by those that use bitcoins, that is...

 

[wulf3n]

I can only think of two things that would negate the need for currency.

Humanity has a change in ideology similar to the Qun [http://dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Qun] or I guess the essence of communism. Where an individual thinks only of the whole.

or

The state of A.I. and robotics reaches a point where all action [resource gathering, science, maintenance etc] is performed by machines.

 

[endtherapture]

The very first step is to abolish the system of haves and have-nots. Since if YOU discovered a source of perpetual energy, won't you jump at the chance to monetize it?

If I discovered fusion power...say...tomorrow, I wouldn't want to monetize it. Maybe I am a weird futurist, or I don't care about money, but I'd want to get this infinite energy source there improving peoples lives as soon as I could. I wouldn't want it monetized. Maybe I am mad.

Believe it or not, there is a small percentage of the population who have deep passions in science, mathematics, and engineering, who would be advancing things whether or not they had any incentive (other than to be involved with moving humanity forward, and for the sake of knowledge).

Maybe this thread has just proved most people are self interested arseholes, and that's why we'll always be stuck in an oppressive, money-based class system. Or you just can't think outside the box.

 

[-Ezio-]

dunno about the rest of you but I'm constantly without currency.

 

[direkiller]

Any one could make limitless amounts of anything they want. So nobody would need to acquire anything from each other. No trading = no currency. (Except maybe creative works, but then people wouldn't need to be paid to produce these, because they don't need money ether, so they can just be given away for free)

This a popular way of thinking about it, but its flawed. The raw materials need to come from somewhere, the replicator just turns those materials into what you want by constructing it out of those raw elements.

You need to get them from somewhere, and someone needs to mine/process and refine them. The actual templates for every item also needs to be made somewhere.

And to think that they would just "give" that kind of stuff away is laughable. And on top of that, like I said before, where do you get the replicator from?

You seem to have a flawed idea of a what a replicator does, there are no external raw materials for a replicator.

A replicator directly turns energy into matter (or the other way around) by rearranging atoms (kind of the same way a transporter atomizes a person as an energy pattern and back again), for an example a replicator could turn raw energy (electricity or plasma) into a physical apple, directly. Nothing else required.

The key is you would limitless energy in order to do this at it's maximum potential. In Star Trek they do not actually have limitless energy, they have only as much as the warp core can put out. Which is why they only do limited replicating. Using a sun would be a good idea but even sun's aren't limitless.

replicators in startrek work off of a mass conversion system(it's in the fluff), else they would need the output of a sun to produce a jug of water

http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Replicator

 

[Heronblade]

Its not inconceivable that in a society where both materials and their assembly are free (aka do not require human efforts), that the action taken to "keep only for yourself" or "to demand payment" for designs of any kind of goods will be seen as a grave offense to human dignity and social cohesion, and might become a criminal act and punishable under their laws.

In this society you describe, scientists, engineers, and artists would be among the few whose jobs would not be largely eliminated. All three of these categories (usually) involve incredibly difficult and tedious work, the product of which can and often does benefit society immensely.

Speaking as a member of the second category, under the circumstances you describe, why in the hell would I keep busting my ass so the rest of you can simply lounge around using products I designed? I got into this profession in large part because I like the idea of benefiting humanity in the long run. Money beyond comfortable living expenses is not a primary concern. But even for someone who is not motivated by greed, that sentiment can only take one so far.

Most of my peers would abandon the profession entirely. While those that remain are likely to be among our best, I think you will find that even in this Utopian state of affairs, you need as many of us as possible.

well the monetary value system is partly a way of managing resources but as far as near limitless energy goes (a somewhat key resource that's reflected in everythings price) we could have that worked out by *looks at watch* 15 years ?

lookup ITER if you dunno about it already and want to know more.

potentially halfway there in your lifetime ain't that bad.

Don't get too excited about that yet. No fusion reactor has yet been designed that produces more energy than it consumes. The one proposed at ITER appears promising, but has not been proven.

Even if it does work as intended, its a deuterium-tritium reactor, it runs on isotopes of hydrogen that are tough to find on earth. The only significant source of either we can reach is on the moon, and it would take a massive strip mining operation in which we sift large swaths of the moon's surface in order to get enough to cover our power usage for any length of time. Possible, but incredibly difficult and expensive. Among other problems, Lunar Regolith, the dust covering the moon, is an electrostaticly charged mix of jagged particulate. It gets everywhere, sticks to almost anything, and can cause a great deal of damage to both machinery and human lungs.

 

[tofulove]

i look forward to a future where robots can rap for me.

 

[psijac]

A sister concept is post-scarcity. A resource becomes so abundant that it has no monetary value, like the oxygen you breathe or internet porn.

Is it possible to destroy all wants? Not really. Concert tickets to your favorite band still cost money even though you can still see them on youtube and listen to their music.

Once your material needs/wants are fulfilled a person will want to have more interesting life experiences. and that will always cost money.

 

[direkiller]

replicators in startrek work off of a mass conversion system (it's in the fluff), else they would need the output of a sun to produce a jug of water

*ahem* we are making "suns" *points to post above yours*

that dose not come anywhere near the output needed,to the point I find it funny.
the ITER has an output of about 2000J/s
so to produce 1kg of anything you would need to run it for over 2800 years



When I said the sun, I mean the sun, as in the entire sun.

 

[Fieldy409_v1legacy]

I hope not, then people would be even fatter and lazier than they are now without the carrot on a stick to motivate them. A world where you dont need to do your job for money but do it because you want to? You know what most people would do in that world?



Fuck, drink, play videogames.

 

[rednose1]

Currency is value in physical form, we'll never be without it. What it is may change over the years, but it'll always be around

 

[Griffolion]

-snip-

That would be nice, but unfortunately it will never happen. I do like the idea of it though. It's just that it relies on the idea of an individual giving away for free something they may have spent years on. While the society may have provided for them above and beyond their basic needs (a good home, luxuries, etc), their humanness will kick in and they will demand something extra as recompense. Especially if what they invented was very "valuable".

As an interesting aside, you're more or less describing [a href="http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Eldar"]pre-fall Eldar[/a] society. [a href="http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Fall_of_the_Eldar#.UfB89o3Ouuk"]And look what happened to them[/a]...

 

[Evil Smurf]

I argued that with enough scientific and technological developments we might develop a Star Trek-like society where people do things because it's what they love, and there will be no need for currency when science advances to a certain level because we might have robots to the menial rap jobs, wihilst people just go into fields for jobs because it's what they love, and due to infinite resources and technology, there will be no need for currency (obviously highly hypothetical, but this is a hypothetical argument).

Congratulations, you're a Communist.

Seriously, you are.

More on topic? No, money is not going to go away any time soon. Perhaps at some point in the future your scenario will come about through the discoveries of infinite or near-infinite energy and resources.

Until then, greed and the hedonic treadmill will keep resources scarce.

Hey me too

Human greed weighs down society, ruining politics, friendships and society as a whole. No, we will never be without currency. it's a nice thought though.

 

[FPLOON]

But what is more likely to happen, bitcoins gaining global recognition or physical currency disappearing entirely?
Hmm, tough to say, my money is on bitcoin. XD

I say it would be a mixture of both, with only a physical way of keeping track of digital funds per person... like a holographic ID card or something...

Hmmm... I think I need to refer back to this video [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E_9R45RLNR0] I saw a while back on bitcoins, though... This really is too close to call, so I'm not going to place any bets down yet...

 

[Sheen Lantern]

Money is but a tool to facilitate the need to trade easily for either services and materials.

Don't confuse it's original purpose with it's actual application.

Money has become a means of control.

 

[Eliwood10]

This reminds me of the DS9 episode "In the Cards" where Jake Sisko, a Federation citizen without the need for money, needs money to buy something - an authentic baseball card. The card he wants could technically be replicated, but the point of having this particular card is the fact that it's authentic and valuable. He spends the whole episode exchanging goods and services around the station to earn the card.

Here's a link to SF Debris' review of the episode since he gives some great insight on this topic: [a href="http://sfdebris.com/videos/startrek/d523.asp"]http://sfdebris.com/videos/startrek/d523.asp[/a]