Windows 10 Test Version Comes With its Own Keylogger - Update

[likalaruku]

The first things I do when I get a new computer:

*Install software that removes bloatware & adware.
*Disable UAC & install 3ed party firewall & other security software, including a better defragger.
*Install better browser.
*Install AdBlock.

 

[RicoADF]

I saw. Still hated the UI due to the aforementioned blandness, but thats just personal taste. We'll see if someone improves it. Kind of sad I have to go third parties for it though. Then again being a TES fan makes me used to that sort of thing.

Now that I think about it Stardock did do the graphical upgrade for Windows 8 so I would bet good money they'll upgrade it for Windows 10 (Windows FX which you can find here - http://www.stardock.com/products/windowfx )

 

[CrystalShadow]

Many live tiles need 'em by design. If the store app is advertising apps I might use instead of crap I don't care about, that's really an improvement.

P.S. Thanks

Logistically, how does that make sense? Should they not be able to function without such a system?

I'm genuinely curious.

And more to the point, even if such "ads" have to exist within the core system, shouldn't they be under the control of the end-user and not Microsoft?

invasion of privacy aside I actually don't think personalised adds are the worst thing ever at least in principle

I mean...if I have to put up with bullshit adds it may as well be for things I have a chance of being interested in?

Ads, or let's face it here...adware, built directly into a paid to use OS is NOT acceptable in any rational sense whatsoever.

I'm sorry, but this is inexcusable. I don't give a flying fuck if the ads are for things I might want[footnote]And really, isn't it unsettling enough that Microsoft would know what things to advertise to you?[/footnote], they don't belong in the core of my premium priced OS.

I don't actually think it means ads in the OS...

The TOS gives them the right to show ads, but I'm fairly certain Android (or at the very least, the code that supports google play) has core features that enable advertising on a system-wide level.
This doesn't mean android devices show ads in the OS, but rather that the OS contains basic features that make it possible for apps to show ads, and probably to have a generic shared pool of ads that can be shown in all apps that have them, even while the device is offline.

Having this as an API feature in the OS (meaning there are components built into the OS that help support it) means there can be a standardised way of delivering these ads that is consistent between different programs that use them, and can reliably share data. (meaning an ad only has to be downloaded once, even if 20 different apps show it.)

That, I think is what is going on, rather than actually having anything to do with ads in the OS itself...

I could be wrong of course, but that seems a likely reason to do it...

 

[RicoADF]

Will have to take a look at that in the weekend when I have time. Just hope I actually remember to do it.

Start 8 by Stardock allows you to return the start menu to Windows 8/8.1 which frankly Microsoft should have had as an option from the get go.

 

[Vigormortis]

I don't actually think it means ads in the OS...

The TOS gives them the right to show ads, but I'm fairly certain Android (or at the very least, the code that supports google play) has core features that enable advertising on a system-wide level.
This doesn't mean android devices show ads in the OS, but rather that the OS contains basic features that make it possible for apps to show ads, and probably to have a generic shared pool of ads that can be shown in all apps that have them, even while the device is offline.

Having this as an API feature in the OS (meaning there are components built into the OS that help support it) means there can be a standardised way of delivering these ads that is consistent between different programs that use them, and can reliably share data. (meaning an ad only has to be downloaded once, even if 20 different apps show it.)

That, I think is what is going on, rather than actually having anything to do with ads in the OS itself...

I could be wrong of course, but that seems a likely reason to do it...

This was one possibility I'd considered. But even so, I'm not sure I can accept such a system built into the core of an operating system I have to pay for.

Though, given Microsoft's propensity for bad decisions lately, adding such a system for reserved ad space doesn't seem beyond them.

 

[Poetic Nova]

My skeptical-alarm for W10 is already going off.
Then again, it also did for W8 but I ended up liking it.

 

[O maestre]

Then the people signing up for beta testing have thoroughly misunderstood and completely ignored the point of beta testing. It is not meant to give you a free preview and give you an exclusive experience. Primarily it is you doing a service to the company about letting them not only monitor your usage, but also assess how you interact with their product and any bugs you find. Notice the word find, as in actively searching the product for flaws. They are essentially volunteer workers. I am doubtful any beta testers would not be able to comprehend this.

When I have beta tested products, I have always self-reported. Never has a condition of helping a game designer improve their game been to let them record video inside of my home, or to install spyware on my computer.

Games don't need to know about how you use your computer, an OS developer does. You will find similar "spyware", as you call it, when beta testing browsers, where they monitor your online usage.

Would you also be horrified to know that the test version records audio, for the ver so nefarious reason to asses how you use the new voice input, and text to speech software.


I don't get it, people said windows 8 was the worst OS ever, the test version needs as much information in order for the next OS not to fuck up. The information collected is relevant to optimize their product. They even state on their faq that the preview is only meant for computer literate people, and lay out what they are using the data for, so they are hardly even trying to fool anyone. I could understand the outrage if it was included in the finished version, but as it is, this is a non story.

Let me ask you this, how else are you going to improve an spellcheck and auto-correct without samples and real world use?

 

[Grumman]

I don't get it, people said windows 8 was the worst OS ever, the test version needs as much information in order for the next OS not to fuck up. The information collected is relevant to optimize their product.

/Feedback/ is what was needed to make Windows 8 not suck, not usage monitoring. Usage monitoring would not tell you that people like the Start menu better than the Start screen, because people can't use the Start menu if it doesn't exist. It is the assumptions baked into the OS that annoy people about Windows 8, and those assumptions cannot be contradicted merely by noting that people use them when they have no other choice.

 

[Sigmund Av Volsung]

This is what I was afraid of. It's bad enough that ads are integrated into Windows 8 and the Xbox Dashboard, but this is going even further than that.

If they go along with this... Apple may finally win the OS wars D:

Unless something drastic happens on the Linux side of things...

GabeN, Gondor sends for aid!

 

[somonels]

So, not only are they taking money by never making their products safe, selling data, and accepting US intelligence agency monies, giving encryption keys to known human rights violating countries, but now they are selling us a marketing platform with even more built-in privacy invasion functionality?

I almost vomited on my new raspberry pi
/brag

 

[Candidus]

I plan on sticking to Windows 7 until there's some gaming-specific reason that I should upgrade, such as a version of DX incompatible with Windows 7.

If there's a keylogger or other extensive user surveillance in the finished Windows 10 product, I'll stick with Windows 7 regardless of the above. Simple as that.

Well...

At least until a user cracks and modifies Windows 10 to disable said "features".

 

[Something Amyss]

invasion of privacy aside I actually don't think personalised adds are the worst thing ever at least in principle

I mean...if I have to put up with bullshit adds it may as well be for things I have a chance of being interested in?

I don't know. I'm yet to see targeted ads that target me.

 

[Baresark]

Windows 7 had the same "feature", and like in Windows 7, you can probably turn it off. I love the freak out on this. They are telling you exactly what it's for.

 

[Nurb]

Are there really going to be ads and shit like that in the OS itself?

 

[Mromson]

Yeah, I won't be picking up Windows 10. No way in hell. Once my Windows 7 becomes old enough, I'll just go back to Linux or SteamOS.

 

[aceman67]

If this "feature" were to stay in Win10, Microsoft wouldn't be able to sell it in Canada since it would be a blatant violation of the Canadian Privacy Act, and no amount of finagling of a TOU would bypass it.

 

[RandV80]

It's understandable that the 'key logger' part is there for beta purposes only, and can be confirmed if this was standard in previous Windows beta's (I have no idea). That's just too big a security risk and more importantly too big a liability to keep things in there. What do you thinks going to happen if someone finds an exploit to access this data through no fault of the user and starts logging bank logins and credit card info? I don't think Microsoft could EULA their way out of that one.

More concerning however is that talk about recording user habits and market research. Is our OS going to try to be First Google turned into Facebook, now is our OS going to try that to? This concept is less a stretch because you just know that the shareholders would love to get their dirty mits on all that sweet market research & advertising money, if they can get away with it without hurting the bottom line.

 

[J Tyran]

Ehhhh.
Its not in Microsoft's best interests to go around hijacking my bank account, and I couldn't care less if they collect every fetish porn search query I try to put into google. Sure its not a positive, but I don't get why everyone gets so antsy about their privacy in situations like this. The same thing happened with kinect a while back. Its not like they are going to go and post all my dirty secrets everywhere. Sure they could. But why would they? And if they did who would care?
Don't get me wrong. Its definitely a little bit of a turn off for trying the test version. But I wouldn't lose any sleep if I had gone and used it for a while before being told about this.

It might not be in Microsofts interest to hack your bank account or steal your identity but it might be in one of their employees interest, how do you know who has access to the data at the company? Staff working for corporations have been involved in scams and identity theft schemes that abused the data they had access to, its not within the realms of impossibility the same could happen with Microsoft too.

All it takes is one broke/disgruntled/substance dependant/indebted to a loan shark employee and they can abuse the resources and data their employer gives them access to, it does happen.

When it comes to your porn habits I wouldn't really care as long as no-one is hurt or exploited, you might not be bothered that faceless people in a corporation know either. Thing is there are people that will despise you for it, there are people that want to make it illegal.

Sometimes those people get into government, or get influence on government and next thing you know streaming transexual video game cosplay furry porn is illegal and Microsoft have been handing all that data over to the government.

"It doesn't happen here" is not a defence, it can happen. It does happen around the world too, even if your government wouldn't what happens if the details get stored on a data base and there is a war and the occupying government wants to put everyone with obscure tastes to death? Even the most innocent seeming data collection has been abused that way in history.

What happens to our data and who stores it in this modern world is important, people like you have allowed this continual creep of what is judged as acceptable. Today we live in a world that is beyond Orwellian because of this attitude, George Orwell never even conceived of just how invasive data collection could be.

Yet people are letting it happen because "no-one really cares about what I do" when some people do, they really, really care.

 

[FEichinger]

Data collection in a testing version of an OS? Terrible! Grab the pitchforks!

Facebook? Still popular as ever. Google is still a constant visit. Chrome is surpassing Firefox. And your pretty anti-tracking browser extensions don't do jack shit against any of those.

"Oh, but they can get my passwords!" ... So can your browser. In fact, how many of the people so up in arms about the W10 test now are still letting the browser store their passwords?

If any software were to submit actual password data to another entity, or storing it in an unsafe way locally, you will hear about it, and chances are no EULA will protect the company in question from it unless it was a genuine bug (and even then, one might argue whether that's sufficient protection). Condemning W10 purely because of the test version having a clause in its testing agreement (mind you, not even any observed transmissions, just a clause in the agreement) is ridiculous, and any article essentially promoting that is fear-mongering at best.

Heck, we had another scare article just the other day about USB. Can we please stop pretending CompSci was 'zeh dark magicks'?

Edit: On that note, remember Heartbleed? You know, the one where pentesters were never actually able to reproduce a leaked password? It was a technical possibility, but no reported cases of it ever being successful? And yet, the media perpetuated that it was the worst vulnerability EVAR. Bullshit.

 

[Kargathia]

I guess I am just in the minority, but I read a most of the EULA's that are presented to me and I guess that is why I found it hilarious when people were going crazy over EA's Origin EULA, but perfectly fine with Steam's.

The original Origin EULA stated that they could collect data on whatever other programs you were running at the time - and was sufficiently vague to raise suspicion they were actually giving themselves leeway to collect info on not only what you were running, but what you were doing with them.

They withdrew that specific part, and brought it in line with comparable (Steam) eula's, but the PR damage had been done.

If this "feature" were to stay in Win10, Microsoft wouldn't be able to sell it in Canada since it would be a blatant violation of the Canadian Privacy Act, and no amount of finagling of a TOU would bypass it.

It'd need to be challenged in court first before anything were to happen.

There's a good many clauses in EULA's/TOU's that are downright illegal under laws in various European countries, but nothing much is happening.