Witcher 3 to be DRM free

Something Amyss

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BloatedGuppy said:
Total Biscuit's conclusion is that while PC gamers as an aggregate will often claim to despise DRM, evidence suggests the vast majority are actually perfectly OK with it. Likely right up to the point where they take a Sim City up the corn hole, at which point they frown and rattle their sabres ineffectually.
As usual, it's all about marketing. Well, and time. Steam was poorly received, but they managed to make themselves tolerable and even accepted by a combination of games people love and sales. People would sign away their basic human rights for cheap games.

I dislike DRM, but it borders on unavoidable. I love the Humble Bundles because I can get a Steam key AND a DRM-free copy of the game in most cases, so I can have my cake and eat it too.

Jasper van Heycop said:
I heard the witcher 2 got pirated to hell, but has CD projekt whined about it

No, they just made up ridiculous unrealistic figures that put Call of Duty piracy numbers to shame.

Incidentally, the Steam version was the primary one distributed, not the DRM-free one. So yeah. Food for thought.
 

Lodgem

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DoPo said:
Jasper van Heycop said:
I heard the witcher 2 got pirated to hell, but has CD projekt whined about it, No they just made a gigantic pile of money (probably because of the money they saved by not buying all the expensive DRM shit, oh the irony)
Ironic indeed... Erm, you do know that Witcher 2 had DRM, right? They did buy "all the expensive DRM shit". It was stripped out later, but the fact stands - it's ironic indeed.
My impression was the DRM was there because of decisions made by the publishers that were used in some parts of the world. The version that was released on GoG was, like everything else on GoG, completely DRM free. This was the version that I bought for that reason.
 

Lodgem

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DoPo said:
Jasper van Heycop said:
I heard the witcher 2 got pirated to hell, but has CD projekt whined about it, No they just made a gigantic pile of money (probably because of the money they saved by not buying all the expensive DRM shit, oh the irony)
Ironic indeed... Erm, you do know that Witcher 2 had DRM, right? They did buy "all the expensive DRM shit". It was stripped out later, but the fact stands - it's ironic indeed.
My impression was the DRM was there because of decisions made by the publishers that were used in some parts of the world. The version that was released on GoG was, like everything else on GoG, completely DRM free. This was the version that I bought for that reason.
 

JaredXE

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I'm going to buy a physical Special Edition pc copy. I loved the one for Witcher 2, I can freaking kill a man with Geralt's bust.

Steam as DRM never bothers me like it did when Valve first released it. For one thing, it's only DRM in the way that digital distribution normally is, i.e. you must be online in order to download it and maybe register it the first time you boot it up. After that, what DRM? I can play it offline, I can mod it, I can tweak it, there's no CD check....what do all the whiners mean by calling Steam DRM?

It's unobtrusive, no always online, maybe requires a cd key, can ALWAYS uninstall and re-install....


Captcha: Golly Jeepers. That's right, captcha. Golly Jeepers people are whiners.
 

Caiphus

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I checked after reading OP's post and I am one of the shameless cretins who bought the Witcher 2 on Steam. I'm sorry GoG. I have failed you.

So to answer what DRM puts me off games:

GFWL- I bought GTA IV on PC, which was my first encounter with GFWL. Never again.
Limited installations
Online requirements (since my net is a bit temperamental). Still haven't bought Diablo 3. Haven't got Simcity either. Despite a bunch of my friends wanting me to get both of those games.

Other forms of DRM, such as Uplay, Steam, don't really get in the way on the day-to-day. So I guess I don't really mind.
So Totalbiscuit is partially right.

Edit: Oh, and yes. Witcher 3 is probably going to be a purchase at/near launch.
 

KungFuJazzHands

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JaredXE said:
Steam as DRM never bothers me like it did when Valve first released it. For one thing, it's only DRM in the way that digital distribution normally is, i.e. you must be online in order to download it and maybe register it the first time you boot it up. After that, what DRM? I can play it offline, I can mod it, I can tweak it, there's no CD check....what do all the whiners mean by calling Steam DRM?

It's unobtrusive, no always online, maybe requires a cd key, can ALWAYS uninstall and re-install....


Captcha: Golly Jeepers. That's right, captcha. Golly Jeepers people are whiners.
You may be able to play the majority of the games available on Steam offline, but it's still DRM. Not only are games in your Steam library permanently attached to your personal account (that's DRM #1 right there), the majority of titles available on Steam won't play without the client running in the background (DRM #2) and it's becoming increasingly common for new releases to include Steamworks (DRM #3). Should I mention all the games that use Valve servers and VAC for their multiplayer components (DRM #4) or the fact that Valve have the right to pull your account for any reason and at any time (DRM #5)?

Maybe none of that stuff would be considered intrusive to you, but many people feel otherwise, and that's why you get complaints about "Steam as DRM".

Offline mode is all fine and dandy when it works, but there are other factors to consider when debating whether or not Steam is actually DRM. Don't forget that Steam was originally designed as a DRM service to prevent people from pirating Half-Life 2.
 

BathorysGraveland2

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I dislike DRM because it's annoying and feels very unnecessary. While I've gotten used to it now and grit and bear it, I still don't like Steam, and the only reason I have and use it is because a few games I bought (retail, mind) requires it to run. Why the fuck retail-purchased games require Steam, I don't know. What is additionally annoying is how different companies have different requirements. I had to use Origin for Mass Effect 3, which wasn't any different to Steam, and Uplay for Far Cry 3, which even fucked locked me out of the game at some times due to it not working.

So yeah, you could say it annoys me. I bought a retail version of the game, why I have to use these silly programs, I don't know.

But on the topic of Witcher 3, yeah it looks awesome. We finally get to meet the emperor, Emhyr var Emreis. That's an encounter I'm looking forward to, and am curious as to whether it's going to be hostile or friendly. Considering the past meeting between Geralt and the emperor in the books, it should be very interesting indeed.

Also, I'm curious to see what kind of choices get carried over from the second game. I'm assuming
whether or not you killed Henselt
is going to be a massive deal that will carry large consequence.
 

Bostur

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I get confused when a DRM-free game is released on GoG and then at the same time a version with DRM is released on Steam. I don't know what arrangements Valve makes with publishers, but it is clearly possible to use Steam as a delivery service without DRM. Games from Paradox is the most notable example, but a lot of free to play games are also released on Steam without any extra DRM. I have a feeling there are some details publishers don't reveal in these cases, where they use Steam as an excuse to add DRM.

When games with DRM works without glitches I'm merely mildly concerned about it. If have a choice of a DRM-free version I'll get that, I may even be willing to pay extra for it.
 

babinro

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Do you actually hate DRM?

No.

I understand the business need to protect itself. Gamers have proven time and time again that they cannot be trusted with a DRM free game. We also know that if a game has a strong enough DRM protection that it will significantly reduce the amount of piracy. See Blizzard's Battle.Net as games like WoW, SC2 or Diablo 3 have almost no piracy compared to traditional games.

However, there are exceptions which have both been detailed above. I've had a terrible experience with GFWL because you CANNOT change the email it's tied to unless you own the console. I don't. The email linked to it was very old and used for spam. Naturally that email had gotten compromised. Months/Years later I wanted to play Bioshock 1&2 and it was a time consuming process to make it work just because they had no method in place for a PC only use to change their email regardless of what info I provided as to proof of my purchase.

Uplay has also proven to be intrusive. It's more of an inconvenience than a truly negative experience like GFWL. These are examples of DRM done poorly in my opinion. The vast majority of other games on the market are fine by me.

Note: While I am pro-DRM. I also believe it's the social responsibility of whoever owns the rights to a game to remove all DRM when it becomes clear that no profits will be made off of a game or the servers will be going down. No one wins when a game is completely removed from history.
 

exxxed

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Lodgey said:
DoPo said:
Jasper van Heycop said:
I heard the witcher 2 got pirated to hell, but has CD projekt whined about it, No they just made a gigantic pile of money (probably because of the money they saved by not buying all the expensive DRM shit, oh the irony)
Ironic indeed... Erm, you do know that Witcher 2 had DRM, right? They did buy "all the expensive DRM shit". It was stripped out later, but the fact stands - it's ironic indeed.
My impression was the DRM was there because of decisions made by the publishers that were used in some parts of the world. The version that was released on GoG was, like everything else on GoG, completely DRM free. This was the version that I bought for that reason.
Let's get this story straight, initially CD Projekt Red set out to distribute the game with the ''help'' of Namco Bandai and their rule of business while on the side (in fact I have no idea who's brilliant shenanigan was this, Bamco's or Red's) trying to ''hunt'' down electronic ''pirates'' through Internet Distributors in EU countries (I believe that Germany was the main focus as far as I remember), even demanding refunds for the game, as you can imagine the outcry was massive, while the DRM broke the physical version of the game compared to the one on GOG (the performance sucked because the DRM was too intrusive), considering the Red's care greatly about their fans opinion they dropped the whole shebang and removed the DRM from the physical copies through a patch a day later in spite of Namco's wishes, of course a lawsuit followed and the rest is history.

Can't wait for the third and last installment, gotta love the Reds!

Captcha: Seek Beauty

Indeed, captcha, indeed, the Reds sought beauty in the eyes of their fans, is this thing self aware?
 

An Individual

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I don't hate DRM in principle. What I hate is when it is poorly executed. For example, a game wanting to do a quick check with the server on install is fine. A game locking it self off (or locking of it's DLC components) because my internet went down is a problem.

Steam has been a perfectly reasonable DRM platform. I have occasionally found myself purchasing games on it when I could get them DRM free for the same price for one specific reason. Automatic background patching. Games these days get patched constantly. If a DRM free platform could provide this feature then I'd definitely use it over Steam when possible.
 

Denamic

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Maximum Bert said:
plus Steam is way to resource hungry for my liking.
Yeah, as far as resource hungriness goes, Steam is not that. I ran a few tests a while back with 3DMark. 3 times with Steam, and 3 times without. The average was actually a few points higher with Steam running, but only very little and well within the margin of error, so it's not like Steam makes it run better. To say Steam is resource hungry is just wrong. Its footprint is minuscule and not even humanly noticeable, at least not with a machine from this side of the decade.
 

Owyn_Merrilin

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CD Projekt are a class act. For the first two Witcher games, you can actually get a DRM free copy from GoG no matter how you purchased it -- I redeemed both my retail Witcher 2 and my Steam The Witcher that way. If they don't do it for the third one, too, I'll be absolutely shocked.

As far as DRM goes, I hate anything that's more intrusive than a disc check or an old style, non-self destructing CD key. Anything loaded down with something like Steam or, god forbid, something truly always online, instead of "have to be online for random checks" like Steam, I'd better either be getting it for free or for around what I would have paid for a weekend rental at Blockbuster. Because that's what I'll be getting, a rental.
 

WouldYouKindly

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See, now this has turned into another Steam is evil thread.

Steam has the potential to be evil, absolutely. But I refuse to hate on something just because they have the capability to be dicks so long as they aren't actually using it. I've had absolutely no issues playing my single player games on Steam when I don't have internet. That's about as unobtrusive as DRM can get. As a matter of fact, I'm not even sure how Steam works as DRM when you're not online. Could someone inform me when Steam won't let you play games that you've paid for?
 

Maximum Bert

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Denamic said:
Maximum Bert said:
plus Steam is way to resource hungry for my liking.
Yeah, as far as resource hungriness goes, Steam is not that. I ran a few tests a while back with 3DMark. 3 times with Steam, and 3 times without. The average was actually a few points higher with Steam running, but only very little and well within the margin of error, so it's not like Steam makes it run better. To say Steam is resource hungry is just wrong. Its footprint is minuscule and not even humanly noticeable, at least not with a machine from this side of the decade.
Well all I know is it made my piece of shit so slow it was unbearable. It wasnt exactly fast to start with admittedly but I actually had to uninstall steam to get it to run again at anything remotely bearable speeds which would be pathetically slow by todays standards it could barely handle WOW on minimum settings to give you an idea. So yes it was a piece of shit but it should have run the game I bought from the store (brick and mortar store) and indeed did but it made me install steam even though I had the disc which just pushed it over the edge it was teetering on. So it may not be resource hungry in regards to some other programs but in regards to what it is i.e a place to buy games it very resource hungry.
 

Owyn_Merrilin

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WouldYouKindly said:
See, now this has turned into another Steam is evil thread.

Steam has the potential to be evil, absolutely. But I refuse to hate on something just because they have the capability to be dicks so long as they aren't actually using it. I've had absolutely no issues playing my single player games on Steam when I don't have internet. That's about as unobtrusive as DRM can get. As a matter of fact, I'm not even sure how Steam works as DRM when you're not online. Could someone inform me when Steam won't let you play games that you've paid for?
Until very recently, pretty much any time you tried to play a steam game without internet when you didn't already have steam up before you lost your connection to the internet. Offline mode occasionally worked, but it involved luck, planning, and, after its discovery shortly before it got (mostly) fixed, understanding how a certain bug in the DRM could wreck your day and what you needed to do to prevent it. The bug was pinpointed by a user with a hex editor, because Valve apparently wasn't too worried about it despite it being so easy to trigger that most people thought it was a feature.

So yeah, I've had it happen quite a few times, it's actually the single form of DRM that has most consistently screwed me over.
 

WouldYouKindly

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Owyn_Merrilin said:
WouldYouKindly said:
See, now this has turned into another Steam is evil thread.

Steam has the potential to be evil, absolutely. But I refuse to hate on something just because they have the capability to be dicks so long as they aren't actually using it. I've had absolutely no issues playing my single player games on Steam when I don't have internet. That's about as unobtrusive as DRM can get. As a matter of fact, I'm not even sure how Steam works as DRM when you're not online. Could someone inform me when Steam won't let you play games that you've paid for?
Until very recently, pretty much any time you tried to play a steam game without internet when you didn't already have steam up before you lost your connection to the internet. Offline mode occasionally worked, but it involved luck, planning, and, after its discovery shortly before it got (mostly) fixed, understanding how a certain bug in the DRM could wreck your day and what you needed to do to prevent it. The bug was pinpointed by a user with a hex editor, because Valve apparently wasn't too worried about it despite it being so easy to trigger that most people thought it was a feature.

So yeah, I've had it happen quite a few times, it's actually the single form of DRM that has most consistently screwed me over.
Because it's the one you use most often, I imagine. I mean, most DRM is unique to the game, Steam has an entire catalog that works through it.

So when Steam isn't working as it's supposed to, it screws you over? Still better than screwing you over being working as intended.

What triggered it?
 

Owyn_Merrilin

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WouldYouKindly said:
Owyn_Merrilin said:
WouldYouKindly said:
See, now this has turned into another Steam is evil thread.

Steam has the potential to be evil, absolutely. But I refuse to hate on something just because they have the capability to be dicks so long as they aren't actually using it. I've had absolutely no issues playing my single player games on Steam when I don't have internet. That's about as unobtrusive as DRM can get. As a matter of fact, I'm not even sure how Steam works as DRM when you're not online. Could someone inform me when Steam won't let you play games that you've paid for?
Until very recently, pretty much any time you tried to play a steam game without internet when you didn't already have steam up before you lost your connection to the internet. Offline mode occasionally worked, but it involved luck, planning, and, after its discovery shortly before it got (mostly) fixed, understanding how a certain bug in the DRM could wreck your day and what you needed to do to prevent it. The bug was pinpointed by a user with a hex editor, because Valve apparently wasn't too worried about it despite it being so easy to trigger that most people thought it was a feature.

So yeah, I've had it happen quite a few times, it's actually the single form of DRM that has most consistently screwed me over.
Because it's the one you use most often, I imagine. I mean, most DRM is unique to the game, Steam has an entire catalog that works through it.

So when Steam isn't working as it's supposed to, it screws you over? Still better than screwing you over being working as intended.

What triggered it?
Ultimately what triggered it was Steam shutting down improperly. If it shut down improperly a specific file (which one escapes me at the moment) would get corrupted, and it would need to be replaced. Before the bug was pinpointed that meant you needed internet access. After it was figured out, a recent backup of the file in question would do the trick. Which sounds like it would be easy enough to avoid, but it actually "shut down improperly" every time you shut down your computer without manually exiting Steam first, which is not exactly intuitive for a program that is set by default to start and stop when Windows does. This is how it worked from launch until some time within the last year, it was so entrenched that the common belief was that was how offline mode was supposed to work, you could only use it if you either lost internet mid game or had the foresight to set Steam to offline mode before you lost internet access (or went somewhere without it, like a LAN party or a hotel room), and then it would sometimes stop working for no apparent reason anyway.

Also, it's only the one I've used most often in recent years. For the first 18-20 years of my life[footnote]In terms of my own experience. If I'm remembering the launch date right Steam actually came out when I was 14, I just held out on getting it for several years. Also in the early years some games used a more physical approach, like asking for quotes from the manual or using a code wheel, both of which were still less obnoxious than the modern forms.[/footnote], "DRM" on the computer meant a disc check and/or a CD key that could be used as many times on as many computers as you wanted, as long as the key was valid and it wasn't being used in online multiplayer by more than one computer at once. It was a nice system. Even since then, I've got accounts with a solid half dozen different DD platforms, and Steam is the only one I ever have problems with. The rest of them are either DRM free or use some variation on the CD key method, not actually requiring the client to be running while the game is in any case.