Women in Games Conference Canceled Due to Lack of Delegates

[Koganesaga]

Damned females, how dare they not enjoy explosions, swearing, fighting and otherwise manly things!

 

[Sonofadiddly]

Special conferences for women wouldn't be necessary if sexism didn't exist. But it still does. As made obvious by the comments on this article, it's still rampant. And anyone who thinks differently is probably a white male with little education on the subject. And those particular people can take their opinions and perform some miscellaneous sex act with them.

So the opinions of white males don't matter? A sexist AND racist statement. That's amazingly bigoted, I hope you're proud.

I stand by my sexist/racist remark. I'm sorry, but I really do believe that as a white person, my opinions on racial issues hold very little weight, as I have not experienced much discrimination based on my race. And since white males experience the least discrimination, and you really, really, do, I don't take their opinions on discrimination seriously. And I get mad when they say that women are pulling shit by trying to have a conference.

Did you even think about what you wrote? It's almost like you believe that singling women out and making special events for them is the best way to solve the issue of sexism.

Were there such a huge issue of women being downtrodden in the industry, would it not be better to hold a conference which is open to both genders. That way it would be possible to promote women and the fact that we're just as able TO the men who are being sexist?

But personally, I haven't come across any issues to date that merit anything like that. The only issue with women in the industry is that not many want to be involved in it, there's nothing stopping them at all.

I disagree with the idea that women don't have anything stopping them from getting into the industry. I have seen adds for jobs in the video gaming industry that specifically say that the offer is for males only. That is partly where my rage is coming from. I'm sure it doesn't always happen, but sometimes it does. Maybe it's unnecessary for women to have a conference to address such an issue that excludes males, but if they want to, I don't want to hear anyone saying that they need to stop pulling that kind of shit. Because it's not shit. It's legitimate.

I'm sorry if I offended some male members of this community with my miscellaneous sex act joke. Maybe I should have mentioned that I say things like that to everyone. I just think that some of the comments about this piece of news were seriously sexist, and some people need to keep their fingers off the damn keyboard.

 

[Wakefield]

I'm really sad about this... I think this is a bigger shame then most people believe it is. Women in Video Games need to be heard, and I would LOVE an opportunity to talk with some of the women who are making such great games.

 

[Korey Von Doom]

Is it bad that I instanly put "Kitchen Space" after "lack of", damn you internet, damn you.

 

[April Murphy]

That is what I think too.

(Reply to Aegios187:
"Why undertake the expense of having a separate conference? Why not just have special break out sessions or discussion tracks at GDC or SXSW that could accomplish the same thing? It's obvious there isn't ENOUGH of a willing (i.e. paying) audience to support a independent conference. There's no reason to make it a all or nothing decision.")

 

[Kubanator]

I stand by my sexist/racist remark. I'm sorry, but I really do believe that as a white person, my opinions on racial issues hold very little weight, as I have not experienced much discrimination based on my race. And since white males experience the least discrimination, and you really, really, do, I don't take their opinions on discrimination seriously. And I get mad when they say that women are pulling shit by trying to have a conference.

And that is why you are a bigot. When you take someone's valid remark and dismiss it on the ground of the person, not the idea, you are simply ignorant.

That'd be like saying "Well honey, women haven't experienced much of the video game industry, so I'm not going to consider your opinion/resume/proposition relating to video games".

I disagree with the idea that women don't have anything stopping them from getting into the industry. I have seen adds for jobs in the video gaming industry that specifically say that the offer is for males only.

Evidence. Seriously, that's a massive claim.

That is partly where my rage is coming from. I'm sure it doesn't always happen, but sometimes it does. Maybe it's unnecessary for women to have a conference to address such an issue that excludes males, but if they want to, I don't want to hear anyone saying that they need to stop pulling that kind of shit. Because it's not shit. It's legitimate.

I'm sorry if I offended some male members of this community with my miscellaneous sex act joke. Maybe I should have mentioned that I say things like that to everyone. I just think that some of the comments about this piece of news were seriously sexist, and some people need to keep their fingers off the damn keyboard.

See, here's the part where you show us all of these prevalent examples of women being put down in the gaming industry.

 

[Sonofadiddly]

I stand by my sexist/racist remark. I'm sorry, but I really do believe that as a white person, my opinions on racial issues hold very little weight, as I have not experienced much discrimination based on my race. And since white males experience the least discrimination, and you really, really, do, I don't take their opinions on discrimination seriously. And I get mad when they say that women are pulling shit by trying to have a conference.

And that is why you are a bigot. When you take someone's valid remark and dismiss it on the ground of the person, not the idea, you are simply ignorant.

That'd be like saying "Well honey, women haven't experienced much of the video game industry, so I'm not going to consider your opinion/resume/proposition relating to video games".

I disagree with the idea that women don't have anything stopping them from getting into the industry. I have seen adds for jobs in the video gaming industry that specifically say that the offer is for males only.

Evidence. Seriously, that's a massive claim.

That is partly where my rage is coming from. I'm sure it doesn't always happen, but sometimes it does. Maybe it's unnecessary for women to have a conference to address such an issue that excludes males, but if they want to, I don't want to hear anyone saying that they need to stop pulling that kind of shit. Because it's not shit. It's legitimate.

I'm sorry if I offended some male members of this community with my miscellaneous sex act joke. Maybe I should have mentioned that I say things like that to everyone. I just think that some of the comments about this piece of news were seriously sexist, and some people need to keep their fingers off the damn keyboard.

See, here's the part where you show us all of these prevalent examples of women being put down in the gaming industry.

I don't have access to these adds anymore. I'm sorry. I didn't think I would ever need to prove such a thing to a person. Is it that massive a claim to suggest that the video game industry, which is male dominated, might be sexist? I thought this was assumed by all.

Here's something I just found real quick saying that women don't make as much money as men in the industry:

http://www.dailytech.com/Video+Game+Industry+Where+Are+the+Women/article13259.htm

Is that good enough for you?

If you think I'm a bigot, fine. But I'm not going to listen to every person's opinion about a thing. I don't have that much energy. So I pick out the people who have some experience on the issue, and discourage those who don't from opening their mouths and wasting time. And in relation to your example, if that women was saying that no one should play video games because they were violent or something, and she had never played one, I would disregard her opinion. But the thing is, nothing is stopping a person from playing video games. Being a white male does stop you from experiencing much discrimination.

Unless women decide to have a conference that excludes them. Ohhh, is that why so many men are upset about it? Aw, you guys feel left out.

 

[Canid117]

I wonder if booth babes would have improved the turnout.

 

[Kubanator]

I don't have access to these adds anymore. I'm sorry. I didn't think I would ever need to prove such a thing to a person. Is it that massive a claim to suggest that the video game industry, which is male dominated, might be sexist? I thought this was assumed by all.

Correlation vs. Causation. Did you know, that the field of science is dominated by men? Sexist right? Men must be forcing the women out of the labs and into the kitchens. What about the fact that women dominate liberal arts? Sexist right? Women are obviously using their wily ways to con men out of arts. You really need to learn the difference between "Woman are being force out" and "Women avoid video game careers because of the meager benefits, long hours, and short vacation time."

If you'd read the article you'd just posted, they explain why women aren't so involved.

The industry?s long hours may serve as another reason for lack of female involvement. Each game consists of a two- to three- year commitment, with longer hours during ?crunch time?, which occurs around 12-26 weeks before a game is sent to stores. These conditions can make it difficult for women to obtain time off in order to have babies or raise children.

Here's something I just found real quick saying that women don't make as much money as men in the industry:

http://www.dailytech.com/Video+Game+Industry+Where+Are+the+Women/article13259.htm

Is that good enough for you?

No, no, no, what that says is that the average woman makes less than the average man. Now you might say "Why, that's outrageous!". But then again, if we consider that first off all, women tend towards more art jobs, which pay less, and there are more male programmers than female programmers, which get paid more, we can conclude that the male and female workers are getting paid equal amounts for the same job, it's just that women tend to take the jobs that pay less.

Now if you find a survey which states "Women programmers with equal seniority and qualifications as male programmers make less", then your point is valid. Otherwise, it's bull(shit).

If you think I'm a bigot, fine.

It's not that I think you're a bigot. That would imply it's a matter of opinion. No, your prejudicial opinion, and complete bias makes you a bigot.

But I'm not going to listen to every person's opinion about a thing. I don't have that much energy. So I pick out the people who have some experience on the issue, and discourage those who don't from opening their mouths and wasting time. And in relation to your example, if that women was saying that no one should play video games because they were violent or something, and she had never played one, I would disregard her opinion. But the thing is, nothing is stopping a person from playing video games. Being a white male does stop you from experiencing much discrimination.

See, that's the important part of my speech. Here's the subcontext for what I wrote.

"Women have little experience in the video game industry, thus I will never hire a women to work for me in my video game company".

Unless women decide to have a conference that excludes them. Ohhh, is that why so many men are upset about it? Aw, you guys feel left out.

You're free to host your conferences, but please don't complain about gender segregation after.

 

[crimson5pheonix]

I really don't see how pointing out how you as a member of group X are different from group Y is supposed to help you be accepted as a equal by group Y. If anything it seems to me that having a special group X conference only serves to strengthen the divide between the two groups. Instead of bringing male and females together to foster a sense of unity and understanding, you are alienating the males and potentially creating a us and them mindset as opposed to a us mindset.

*snicker* Group X and group Y *snicker*

I'd like to state a better opinion on this, but I never even heard of it til now... Who are these people?

 

[Flight]

That's a bit depressing. Hopefully, it will come back next time.

 

[Kubanator]

That's a bit depressing. Hopefully, it will come back next time.

I'd much rather they integrated into a bigger conference, giving them a bigger audience, and us a bigger conference, meaning more devs, and thus more games.

 

[Sonofadiddly]

snip

I didn't say that the game industry is definitely sexist because the males are keeping females out. I meant that an industry dominated by one type of people is likely to create a serious ingroup that will inevitably be discriminatory toward others. It happens all the time. It's not a massively wild claim. You're just blowing shit out of proportion now. I did read the whole thing and it's reasons that women might not be attracted to it, although I don't think there's any way that a representative of any company would admit that anything they did would keep women out, so it must be because women love vacation time or something.

Also, if you read carefully, it says that women in the game industry itself, not in the overall job market, make that much less than men. And if you are suggesting that women only make less because they choose jobs that pay less, then we can end this argument right here, because there is no reasoning with someone thick enough to believe that. And it's true that women do tend to take lower paying jobs. But it is also true that women in the same positions as men get paid less than they do. That is almost certain to include programmers. I seriously thought people knew this shit.

And for the love of god, if you don't think I'm a bigot, then stop calling me one.

Your third point makes no sense and lastly segregation? Having a conference about women in gaming is segregation? Are you kidding me?

 

[Twilight_guy]

Actually, the fact that not enough people were going to attend exactly points out why they needed a conference in the first place. Females play games but are not attached enough to them to really make an impact on the medium and really care enough to attend something like this. They should have started smaller, I guess. Here's hoping this is a rallying call for next year. Good luck next time, ladies.

 

[Kubanator]

I didn't say that the game industry is definitely sexist because the males are keeping females out. I meant that an industry dominated by one type of people is likely to create a serious ingroup that will inevitably be discriminatory toward others.

Right

It happens all the time.

And when it does, someone gets sued. Show me a lawsuit and the evidence accompanying. Seriously, if there is discrimination happening, there should be a lot of rich female game designers.

It's not a massively wild claim. You're just blowing shit out of proportion now. I did read the whole thing and it's reasons that women might not be attracted to it, although I don't think there's any way that a representative of any company would admit that anything they did would keep women out, so it must be because women love vacation time or something.

Yeah... It's not like women ever you know, have babies and want maternity leave which doesn't fly on a developers schedule. Unless that was sarcastic.

Also, if you read carefully, it says that women in the game industry itself, not in the overall job market, make that much less than men.

On average in the game industry. You really need to stop read what you want to hear.

And if you are suggesting that women only make less because they choose jobs that pay less, then we can end this argument right here, because there is no reasoning with someone thick enough to believe that. And it's true that women do tend to take lower paying jobs.

They don't choose jobs that pay less, they choose careers that pay less. Ex. Liberal arts vs. Science.

But it is also true that women in the same positions as men get paid less than they do. That is almost certain to include programmers. I seriously thought people knew this shit.

Show me the proof. The article specifically said:

According to the survey, women in all positions within the video game industry made an average of $64,643 last year. Men on the other hand, earned $74,459.

Meaning programmers, artists, etc.

If you get me an article that states that when women and men with the same job and the same level of seniority and qualifications, women make less, then I'll be inclined to believe that. Otherwise, you're working off of bull(shit) statistics, because they've specifically excluded the distribution of different jobs amongst the genders, with the exception of the high paid programmer, which according to the survey:

women make up only 3% of game programmers.

And for the love of god, if you don't think I'm a bigot, then stop calling me one.

I do think you're a bigot.

Your third point makes no sense and lastly segregation? Having a conference about women in gaming is segregation? Are you kidding me?

Just as segregating as black history month.

Also, the fact that you need a separate conference to highlight your achievement,s kinda hints at the fact that you can't get recognized otherwise.

 

[Aesir23]

...Well that is depressing. You'd think this would be an interesting topic to at least SOME people.

Yeah, to SOME.

I'm not sure if anyone else feels the same way I do, but I know I'm tired of all this attention being placed on women in the gaming industry. It's not like we deserve special attention just because of our gender.

 

[Logan Frederick]

Why undertake the expense of having a separate conference? Why not just have special break out sessions or discussion tracks at GDC or SXSW that could accomplish the same thing? It's obvious there isn't ENOUGH of a willing (i.e. paying) audience to support a independent conference. There's no reason to make it a all or nothing decision.

Thought is in the right place, but I'd imagine that could be just as much work as throwing your own event if you have to cooperate with a whole other organization to host your own mini-event or panel within someone else's conference.

 

[Lexodus]

'Women in Games' is Facebook group at best. Why not just be a fucking GAMER, rather than attempting to divide the two halves of the species even further?

Lack of delegates has brought this year's Women in Games conference to its knees.

oh, you.... i certainly lol'd on that one

I did too. We're doomed, aren't we?

 

[Sonofadiddly]

Snip

Here's one saying that women get paid less for the same work:

http://www.financialpost.com/working/story.html?id=360347

Here's one saying that qualifications are not a factor, it is actually the employer's fault:

http://www.couriermail.com.au/business/jobs/employers-think-they-can-pay-women-less-study-finds/story-e6freqo6-1225840646203?from=public_rss

Here's one saying the pay gap is worse in higher positions:

http://www.moneyweek.com/news-and-charts/economics/the-real-reason-women-are-paid-less-than-men.aspx

That second article blames the problem on babies as well. Because of course all women have babies and men never take paternity leave. That was sarcastic.

Now let's see here. You're talking about lawsuits out of nowhere. You really think that every instance of discrimination leads to a lawsuit? That's just impossible. It only happens when it can be proven, so probably 95% of the time people get away with it. And don't tell me to find you an article proving that number.

And now you're ripping me because I used the word job instead of career? You knew what I fucking meant.

And finally, you're telling me you think a celebration or study of a single culture, race, gender, etc, is segregation. That is where I draw the line. You are officially too insane to argue with. Have a nice life. Maybe do some research yourself once in awhile. Seriously.